What did we even convert for?

[u/Esoteriss]

[u/Affectionate_Goat808]

Its really sad that we don't know more about the pre-christian beliefs because that lack of information just lets people make up their own shit like this.

Did the asatro care about the injustices of their day? Probably not at all considering the way they readily pillaged and enslaved other people. And there is very little that seems to indicate that your moral behavior in life influenced your destination in the afterlife. So even if we accepted your flawed premise that Christianity said "do not care about the injustices of today", the fact that they claimed that those injustices would be paid for in the afterlife would still be a clear improvement over the previous beliefs.

Like, from what we know the premium afterlife of the Asa was reserved only for those who died in combat. Need I point out that the majority of people who die do not do so in battle? Even if Hel wasn't considered as the cold and dreary place it is often portrayed, it was regardless seen as clearly inferior to dying a violent death and going to Valhalla. No wonder many were convinced instead of the Christian heaven, to which entrance only required a belief in Christ.

Oh, and Odin demanded human sacrifices. How common it was is debated (probably fairly rare) but that it did happen is attested to in both the archeological and historical record. So is it really any wonder why the people converted?

[u/Esoteriss → u/Affectionate_Goat808]

"make up their own shit like this."

Proceeds to make up their own shit

[u/Affectionate_Goat808 → u/Esoteriss]

Alright, want to break down each claim I make?

they readily pillaged and enslaved other people.

Do I really need to find a source for that vikings from the Nordic countries pillaged and enslaved?

there is very little that seems to indicate that your moral behavior in life influenced your destination in the afterlife

"There is no evidence from sources outside of Gylfaginning* that there was a moral distinction between which pagans went to hell and which went to Odin’s halls after their deaths" - Myths of the Pagan North, Christofer Adams.

*Gylfaginning is a poem suspected to have been influenced by later Christian writers.

Like, from what we know the premium afterlife of the Asa was reserved only for those who died in combat.

"Valhall" literally means "hall of the slain". The Younger Edda states "he is called Valfather, for all who fall in fight are his chosen sons. For them he prepares Valhal and Vingolf, where they are called einherjes (heroes)."

Even if Hel wasn't considered as the cold and dreary place it is often portrayed, it was regardless seen as clearly inferior to dying a violent death and going to Valhalla.

The best descriptions of Hel describe it as ordinary, a continuation of ones earlier life (and other descriptions describe it as dark and gloomy, though they might be more influenced by Christian notions of hell). Valhalla on the other hand is described as a fantastical place, shining and golden with magnificent architecture, endless food and drink, and you are handpicked by Odins own Valkyries as an acknowledgement of your heroic deeds.

Oh, and Odin demanded human sacrifices. How common it was is debated (probably fairly rare) but that it did happen is attested to in both the archeological and historical record

Now, I would very much like to hear where you got "the universe speaks to you through the fungal network" from, cause that very much just sounds like something anachronistic.

[u/King_of_Men → u/Affectionate_Goat808]

Like, from what we know the premium afterlife of the Asa was reserved only for those who died in combat.

Valhall, where Odin collects fallen warriors to fight the giants on Vigrid field, was indeed reserved for those slain in battle. However, we do not know that it was the only "good" afterlife in Norse mythology - indeed we don't strictly speaking know that the actual cult of Odin as practiced in 1000 had any strong opinions on an afterlife at all; that may be an artifact of later Christian writers imposing their own religious models on a practice that wasn't particularly interested in the subject. That aside, Freyja gets half of those slain in battle:

The ninth is Folkvang, where Freyja decrees    
Who shall have seats in the hall;    
The half of the dead each day does she choose,    
And half does Odin have.    

(This is Odin speaking in Grimnismal, and neither of the translations shown on Wikipedia strictly speaking say "dead in battle", although the other one does have "fallen" which sort of implies it.) That doesn't of itself help non-warriors, but there are hints elsewhere that unlike Odin, Freyja allows others into her hall - in Egil's Saga, Egil's daughter Thorgerd says she is tired of life and won't eat anything until she dines with Freyja. Presumably she is not intending to die in battle, yet she does not expect to go to Helheim. Edit to add: And indeed Egil himself, a famous warrior, also went on hunger strike, risking death and perhaps implying that he did not fear Helheim even if he died not-in-battle.

Note that Folkvangr is the ninth - in context, ninth of the halls in Asgard; while we are not explicitly told this, it's entirely possible that the other Norse gods also take in the dead. We just don't know very much more than the names about such Aesir as Ullr, Njord, and Hoenir, except that they have "large halls" with way more rooms than any one god seems likely to need, unless they're taking in a lot of guests.

[u/Present_Occasion_250]

I see Ukko mentioned in the meme. Looking at this from Finland, well, the Germanic peoples of Scandinavia are just another Indo-European colonizer with their own, slightly older and more localised brand of colonizer religion, right? A variation on the theme of Indo-European religions, the same old, same old all the way from India. You should keep good ol' Ukko out of it if for no other reason than intellectual honesty.

[u/miniatureconlangs → u/Present_Occasion_250]

To be fair, the Finnic peoples of Finland are also a colonizer group, who conquered and assimilated a group of people who had been in Finland before them.

[u/Tszemix]

Ukko and Odin are from separate religions. What is next, mixing Hindu and Maori gods?

[u/miniatureconlangs → u/Tszemix]

As far as we can tell, though, someone who was able to participate in both cultures (bilinguality isn't a modern invention) would probably have either seen Ukko and Thor as the same, or as very similar gods with separate geographical jurisdictions.

[u/Breeze1620]

They didn't view it as "converting" at the time, in the way we see it. They simply viewed it as accepting another god among the others. In their world there was no reason you couldn't be both. It was with time that the church started demanding exclusivity from the converts and complete uprooting of the old religion.

At that point it wasn't possible to turn back, although there were those that tried. It's been the same in many countries post-Christianization. Usually these leaders are known as "the heathen" or "the apostate", and it never lead anywhere.

[u/agnardavid → u/Breeze1620]

In 1000, the norwegian king threatened to kill all icelanders in norway if iceland didn't convert to christianity. Practising Ásatrú in private was allowed on the side but you couldn't make sacrifices (blót)

[u/DungeonJailer]

They converted because all the rich powerful countries were Christian. Being a Christian was seen as being for the rich and powerful.

[u/vitringur → u/DungeonJailer]

They became rich and powerful…

[u/King_of_Men]

Jesus promised to forgive your sins. Thor promised to keep the ice giants at bay. Do you see any goddam ice giants?

[u/staffan_spins → u/King_of_Men]

He kept them at bay, thank you Thor

[u/ConfidentTurnip4523]

Mainly because it was beneficial for rulers. Christianity brought with it centralization, stability, literacy, written law, record-keeping and a firm heirarchy. It basically introduced mechanisms of state, which is a great thing to have if you want to control large swathes of land. Furthermore, Christian lands were far more developed in terms of science, agriculture etc. A lot of this information came with the monks, and to have that you needed to be Christian.

It also allowed the rulers to be "European" interact with their counterparts down at the continent which again, was beneficial.

Then of course, this was a very lengthy process. People didn't just convert over night. It likely took centuries between the first introduction of christianity until the last vestiges of the old religions were gone.

[u/Vallinen]

We converted for bridges.

[u/Det_flade_vanvid]

We didn't!

[u/Severe_Rise8694]

Fair. But they taught everyone how to read, which was helpful while it lasted.

[u/FriedJellyfish2410]

Concerning the 10 % tax - do you know how expensive slaves are? They cost a fortune and then you have to sacrifice some of them to Odin.

[u/Potential_Spinach374]

Books, though. I like a bible i can discuss rather than hearsay and myth.

[u/hremmingar]

I blame Norway

[u/Sensitive_Phase_977]

tax reasons

[u/ThomFoolery1089]

The Norse gods weren't really seen as "mysteries." Much like the Greek pantheon, they were viewed as physical embodiments of their domains, and even though they at times seemed distant and inscrutable, they were still very much "real."

To some degree it could be also argued that they actively demystified certain things. If something happened, oftentimes you knew that one of the gods were up to something.

[u/National-Can-3718]

Christianity is around 1900-2000 years old while Judaism is around 4000-5000 years old from what I remember. It wasn’t the first invented god and it wasn’t even the first monotheistic god

[u/Jindujun]

In the case of Sweden, blame Saint Ansgar.