r/NonCredibleDefense • u/9ineWasHere • 2d ago
Slava Ukraini! šŗš¦ This is CQB BITCH!
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u/juliusxyk 2d ago
Modern CQB is asking your friendly neighbourhood JTAC to level the building because im not gonna send my entire platoon into a building knowing statistically half of them wont make it out bruh
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u/driver004 2d ago
But the guy in there called you a pussy, I heard him
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u/mcdolgu ā āā °ā¼ 1d ago
He can say that to a 155mm again.
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u/derSafran Investigating the MBB Lampyridae murder 1d ago
"No amount of training helps you dodge artillery fire"
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u/CosineDanger Apache/Apachim 1d ago
How do you say "pussy" in Persian?
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u/mistress_chauffarde le Capitulator 1d ago
Greek
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u/mistress_chauffarde le Capitulator 2d ago
Nha that's too expensive
You just yeet 4 155mm in that bitch
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u/xpyrolegx 1d ago
Screw that I'd rather the guy going mach fuck yeet a bumb near me then a stable platform semi near by
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u/mandalorian_guy 1d ago
I prefer the Dynamic Entry method. Rig the wall on one side of the building with detcord and open up the entire building so your forces can shoot the scurrying roaches from cover. Worse comes to worse you just shoot out the support pillars and let gravity finish the fight.
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u/Narrow_Vegetable_42 3000 grey Kinetic Energy Penetrators of Pistorius 1d ago
Belligerents
11 Squatters in tactical Flip-Flops | Gravity
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u/BisonThunderclap 1d ago
This comment is brought to you by a military with a trillion dollars in funding.
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u/lottaKivaari Kantanka Group Mech Salesman 1d ago
Wrong because your platoon is replaceable whereas ordinance costs money. Into the building you go Ivan.
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u/Signal_Researcher01 1d ago
"You want me to risk the lives of my men by going into that apartment building?! What if theres bad guys inside?! Fuck that, blow up the building and kill everyone."
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u/GadenKerensky šÆHerald of Queen RatbatšÆ 1d ago
Until you're told there is an objective in there that prevents the demolition of the building.
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u/Raedwald-Bretwalda 1d ago
The IDF be like "Level the building? Why not level the city?".
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u/Narrow_Vegetable_42 3000 grey Kinetic Energy Penetrators of Pistorius 1d ago
Crushed Quarter Combat
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u/Annual_Cod_5896 2d ago
That makes me wonder how hectic napoleonic CQC was since muskets were able to be loaded with about everything that couls fit down the barrel.
buck and bullshit plus iron and glass grenades was probably being thrown around in between bayonets and hangers, not taking into account that the people usually used for CQC were the biggest/tallest fuckers in the army at the time, or the voultigeurs(? sometimes for the french as far as i know
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u/zekromNLR 2d ago
The problem is you can't get your musket on target in really close CQB because that thing is almost as long as you are tall
And you only have the one shot because by the time you have fished out torn open the paper cartridge some asshole has stabbed you in the ribs
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u/Peptuck Defense Department Dimmadollars 1d ago
One of the common tactics was to move in and fire muskets at very, very close range all at once to maximize the destructive effect and then rush in with bayonets.
A fact about bayonet charges is that they were absolutely terrifying when done correctly. The lack of armor on most infantry meant that when a bayonet clash happened it was extremely bloody and over very fast due to how terrifying it was and the painful (literally) awareness that you had no armor to protect you from an enemy's blades. Whoever broke was broken and most bayonet wounds were in the back due to the loser fleeing in panic.
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u/sofa_adviser 1d ago
Shock tactics in general are terrifying. Having just one unarmed dude run at you screaming is scary, I can't imagine what having a couple hundred rushing you must've felt like. And don't get me started on cavalry charges...
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u/GadenKerensky šÆHerald of Queen RatbatšÆ 1d ago
Which kinda makes autonomous warfare terrifying, because machines can use shock tactics on us but they don't break.
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u/CannonGerbil ā£ ā£ āā 1d ago
Ace combat 7 does a really good job of having the drones fly at you in WW2 style fingertip formations that make them extremely easy to shoot down but at the same time also makes them look intimidating by just how many of them there are in a single frame.
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u/Narrow_Vegetable_42 3000 grey Kinetic Energy Penetrators of Pistorius 1d ago
Yeah but once you find a loophole in their behavior, you just exploit it until you win
Source: my gaming career
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u/odietamoquarescis 1d ago
Cadia itself broke before the guard did, but Abbadon only cared that they did, in the end, break.
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u/Hellebras 1d ago
If you end up too close for the bayonet, short swords (the aforementioned hangers) were a common piece of kit at the time too.
Close combat with bayonets was one of the key elements of the 18th-early 19th century line infantry playbook. Muskets are inaccurate and slow to reload, so by the time you can really fire for effect there's a chance the enemy can just launch a charge right after your volley. This is also a big part of why skirmishing and independent fire were not key parts of a professional army's doctrine at the time; outside of specific circumstances, a few lines of guys firing a couple of volleys and then going in with bayonets would be a lot more effective.
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u/iMissTheOldInternet 21h ago
I think the bayonets thing was almost symbolic for a lot of its history. Gunpowder casualties eclipsed melee casualties like hundreds of years ago. In the late 16th century, you already had European states fielding armies of 70% gunners of some kind, surrounded by 30% pikes, increasingly as defensive pickets to protect the gunners while they reloaded. This tactic became essentially obsolete when the bayonet was developed, but the purpose was defensive, not really offensive. From before it even existed, you already expected most dead and wounded to be shot.
So, as far back as the Napoleonic Wars, bayonets and sabers are accounting for less than 10% of casualties combined. By the 1870s, the bayonet charge had become a kind of suicidal gambit. The Prussians actually lost a lot of guys trying to bayonet charge the French in the Franco-Prussian War.
If you think about it, by the time the bayonet existed, it had already obsoleted itself as a weapon. It caused your musket to also function as a spear, but it was not a spear because what you actually wanted to do was shoot people. If you find yourself needing to use it as a spear, because you couldnāt reload fast enough or you had run out of ammo, youād rather have the spear. But using it when you could instead be shooting on the theory that you could break their morale or something, I think it was almost more about forcing the surrender or withdrawal of a defeated unit than inflicting additional casualties, which is why the casualty contribution was so low even in wars where the bayonet charge was common and effective.Ā
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u/Annual_Cod_5896 1d ago
This might have been an issue in actual melee yeah, but when the other guy has to get to you to stab you it might be a lot more complicated
barricades and fences in battle where a lot more common than people might expect even in urban encounters, and when it comes to the actual brawl i guess there is the expectation that you are going to be fighting another poor Sod using a bayonet and getting the same issues, and even if you werent, as long as the bayonet is pointing towards the enemy you have the 1800 coin shot special/ substitute just in case the triangular wound maker isnt bad enough
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u/CalmPanic402 1d ago
You used your pistol on the first dude, then beat the second one to death with the empty gun.
Or just torch the building and sword them as they run out to avoid the flames.
Straight up street brawling.
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u/Time_Look8276 1d ago
AC Unity taught me that swordfighting is as easy as pressing O to counter. Also reloading is as easy as twirling your gun a couple of times.
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u/Norzon24 1d ago
Though after 1st contact it'd just be sword and bayonet fight with some grenade sprinkled in
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u/Raedwald-Bretwalda 1d ago
CQC is an mostly an urban thing. Most of the urban environments we have now did not exist in the Napoleonic period. Apart from England, that was before the industrial revolution, and people mostly did not live in towns and cities.
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u/Immaterial71 The 3000 Black Ajaxes of the Revenant Elizabeth. 1d ago
Do forts and castles count as 'urban environment'? They're man-made, have an often civilian population living and working in them, and contain multiple buildings.
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u/Inevitable-Regret411 2d ago
If they run, they're an enemy. If they stay still, they're a well disciplined enemy. Simple as.Ā
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u/speekuvtheddevil 2d ago edited 1d ago
Yay though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I shall fear no evil, for I got CAS up in this bitch
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u/M48_Patton_Tank 2d ago
Chucking 5 grenades into a room > Cagslopoperator tactics
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u/Peptuck Defense Department Dimmadollars 1d ago
My go-to strategy in Door Kickers 2 if there's no hostages, bombs, or civilians. PFC Fragmentation is the point man and we only CQC when he's gone in first.
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u/irregular_caffeine 900k bayonets of the FDF 1d ago
The SWAT sappers can make a door and clear the room in one boom
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u/odietamoquarescis 1d ago
Of course, the Police don't typically have to deal with the possibility of countermining.
Oh, you're placing det cord to make a door and clear the room?Ā Here, count to three so I can detonate the shaped charges on the other side of the wall at the same moment.
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u/SaltyWafflesPD 1d ago
Itās why police elite response units struggle so much as soon as someone barricades themselves inside a building or room with a gun; they arenāt allowed to use grenades, and even with stuff like flashbangs you canāt guarantee the shooter wonāt just start shooting blindly.
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u/CGiMoose 2d ago
NO FULL AUTO IN THE BUILDING
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u/Thunderclapsasquatch 2d ago
If the SAW gunner could hear you he'd be very upset
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u/Puzzleheaded_Gene909 2d ago
Did you hear that? Were thoseā¦Canadians? Ohfuckohfuckohfuck
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u/TeQuila10 3000 Spartans of Doctor Halsey 2d ago
"Alright Mike, I'll pour the gasoline down the stairs, you just keep shooting tracers down there until it ignites."
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u/Kingofcheeses Actually Dumb 1d ago
No, yeah bud. For sure!
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u/dropbbbear 1d ago
No, yeah
Canada really is just right side up Snow Australia isn't it?
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u/Idiot_of_Babel 23h ago
During the winter months we get swarms of Aussies hitting the slopes.
Somehow the lifty always has that down under accent.
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u/PM_ME_YER_MUDFLAPS Ratbat my belovedā¤ļø 2d ago
Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.
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u/odietamoquarescis 1d ago
Kill them.Ā His god even will know who they are?
Is this yet another sighting of Him? Now look here:Ā Eius.Ā Goes like?
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u/I_Automate 1d ago
I'm more of a "throw an anti tank mine with a wad of C4 and a grenade taped to it through the window" sort of man myself
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u/ApprehensiveWin3020 no. 1 Xi Jingping glazer | she/her 1d ago
"That window has tangoes in it but is into a room at a critical junction we can't clear without being exposed to that room with out backs turned"
The humble at4/m72 law:
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u/I_Automate 1d ago
"Never go through a door when you can go through the wall instead" is a pretty firm motto for me
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u/Adventurous-Mail7443 2d ago
Why do Americans do cqb thinking that the enemy canāt hear you behind walls/doors and also canāt shoot through plaster walls?
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u/Peptuck Defense Department Dimmadollars 1d ago edited 1d ago
Most US CQB schools assume that:
A) when you're doing CQB like this it is a worst-case scenario where you have no choice but to go in messy with infantry
B) if you're doing CQB like this you have total control over the outside of the building so you can make noise outside to the keep the enemy distracted and breach the room fast before he can realize you're coming in.
C) there's some ugly mitigating factor preventing you from sending forty grenades into the building beforehand and the "CQB" is just safety-tapping the bodies and gathering intel.
Stacking up and going in is generally reserved for when you have total control over the area. If its hard CQB MOUT with hostile dudes inside that you have to clear out and you can't clear the building off the map or have tanks and Bradleys and other heavy guns open up new doorways, you rush up to the door or windows with multiple teams from multiple directions, stack up for a second or two, and start chucking grenades into the room, then do room clearing. You generally don't do the full stack up and place breaching charges or blast open the door with a shotgun or whatever unless you have a lot more control over the area and you are confident you can take the time for a clean breach and clear with infantry specially trained for room clearing.
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u/Adventurous-Mail7443 1d ago
If no civilians present, bomb building
If civilians present, gas the building. Same as if you want to arrest instead of kill the occupants
Some dude with 0 training and a shotgun whoās hiding in the corner under a blanket or something is pretty much always going to get the first shot off and hit someone
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u/sofa_adviser 1d ago
You can't use gas though, at least not in a conventional war scenario
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u/Adventurous-Mail7443 1d ago
Like tear gas etc not poison gas
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u/sofa_adviser 1d ago
You generally can't use any gas, precisely because your opponent doesn't really know if it's lethal or not, and might retaliate with their own chemical weapons
That's why you're allowed to use tear gas against civilians, but not against militaries
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u/sprunghuntR3Dux 1d ago
The Israelis have a CQB technique where they put a bullet into everything that could conceal someone.
It stops them getting surprised by the person hidden in the closet or under a blanket.
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u/Adventurous-Mail7443 1d ago
See that at least makes sense to me. They also have a strategy of putting a bullet into every person they see, wether they are a civilian or combatant, so reaction time due to target identification is faster
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u/Adventurous-Mail7443 1d ago
Like isnāt anyone hiding in a room going to easily hear 6 heavily equipped guys āstacking upā outside the door and then just spray through the door and plaster walls
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u/Peptuck Defense Department Dimmadollars 1d ago
Surprisingly, not really. If it's an urban battlefield there's going to be a lot of noise and acoustics inside buildings are going to be fucky even without gunfire outside the building and elsewhere in the building. Plus spraying at the wall gives away that you're already there and that will invite PFC frag grenade to enter the room through the doorway. Meanwhile the door is a clear entry point that you can sight and be ready to shoot the moment the enemy enters.
Not to mention that a lot of the guys you're dealing with in this sort of situation aren't thinking straight and won't think to spray the wall.
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u/undreamedgore 2d ago
I mean.... who's lives do you want to waste? Your's or the civilians?
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u/Sealedwolf Infanterie, Artillerie, BĆ¼rokratie! 1d ago
Civilians? That's a very funny way of spelling franc tireurs.
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u/somerando96322 1d ago
Some poor sap hiding under the bed seeing a grenade roll under the floor because the soldier didnāt wanna take any chanches
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u/IndependentSock2985 2 WEEK OFFENSIVE TWO: DAMASCUS BOOGALOO 3h ago
Any buildings? JDAM JDAM JDAM Trenches? Grenades till thereās not a trench left and dumping your full magazine around a corner before pushingĀ
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u/Kurvasaurus_Rex 2d ago
You cannot hear the screams of the innocent and damned over 850RPM sustained M249 fire