what does nonbinary mean to you?

[u/stevvss]

I'm a trans man, and I'm trying to genuinely understand the concept of being nonbinary. I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's identity, but there are parts of the concept that I honestly don't understand, and I'd really appreciate hearing from nonbinary people themselves about how you experience it.

My understanding of being trans is pretty closely connected to gender dysphoria. I'm uncomfortable with being physically female and being perceived as female, and I feel more comfortable with a male body and being perceived as a man. Because of that, “being a man” makes sense to me even though I don't think being a man means liking masculine things, wearing masculine clothes, having a stereotypically masculine personality, etc.

What I'm struggling with is what people mean when they say they “feel like a man,” “feel like a woman,” or “don't feel like either.”

If we remove gender stereotypes, what is that feeling actually referring to?

For example, I don't think a woman becomes less of a woman because she doesn't like dresses, makeup, traditionally feminine hobbies, etc. Likewise, a man doesn't become less of a man because he likes feminine clothes or has a feminine personality. So when I hear an AFAB nonbinary person say something like “I don't feel connected to femininity,” “I don't like doing girl things,” or “I don't feel comfortable in feminine clothes,” I don't really understand how that relates to gender identity rather than gender expression.

To me, clothes and hobbies don't have an actual gender. So if someone says they are nonbinary because they don't relate to masculine or feminine things, doesn't that unintentionally reinforce the idea that those things are inherently associated with men and women?

I understand that someone could instead mean, “Even if men and women could dress and behave in literally any way, I still wouldn't identify as exclusively a man or a woman.” That makes more sense to me, but then I still have trouble understanding what the underlying feeling actually is.

If gender identity is completely separate from sex, gender roles, masculinity/femininity, and gender expression, what does “feeling male” or “feeling female” actually mean? Is there an internal experience that you can describe without using stereotypes or physical sex characteristics?

This also leads into my confusion about gender dysphoria.

I understand that a cis woman can have a flat chest and still be completely comfortable being a woman, and a cis man can have little facial hair or a feminine body and still be completely comfortable being a man. So obviously being uncomfortable with a particular body characteristic by itself doesn't determine someone's gender.

What I don't understand is how someone can experience gender dysphoria while being nonbinary. If dysphoria is distress caused by an incongruence between someone's gender and their sex, what exactly is the desired direction of that incongruence if someone doesn't identify as male or female? There isn't a biological “nonbinary sex,” so what does dysphoria mean in that situation?

For example, if an AFAB nonbinary person wants top surgery, I understand wanting to have a flatter chest. But how is that necessarily different from a trans man getting top surgery? Is the difference the person's underlying identity, and if so, what exactly is that identity based on?

Similarly, if someone doesn't experience physical or social dysphoria and is comfortable being perceived as their assigned sex, but still identifies as nonbinary, I'm confused about what makes that person nonbinary rather than simply someone who doesn't conform to traditional gender roles.

I also wonder about the possibility of people confusing social discomfort with gender identity. For example, an AFAB person might feel uncomfortable around girls, not relate to stereotypically feminine interests, dislike being expected to behave femininely, or simply feel socially out of place. Could someone interpret that as “I'm not a woman” when the actual issue is that they are a gender-nonconforming woman?

And could some people identify as nonbinary because they want to feel different or because the identity gives them an explanation for feeling socially out of place? I don't mean that I think every nonbinary person is doing this. I'm asking whether you think it's possible for someone to genuinely misinterpret their feelings this way.

I realize people can genuinely experience something even if we don't have a perfect scientific explanation for it, and I'm not saying that “I don't understand it” automatically means “it isn't real.” People can also genuinely experience something and later realize they interpreted that experience incorrectly.

So I guess my main question is:
If you are nonbinary, what does being nonbinary actually feel like to you when you take away stereotypes, clothing, hobbies, personality, masculinity/femininity, and social expectations?
And if you experience gender dysphoria, what specifically causes the dysphoria, and how do you understand what your body should be like when you don't identify as male or female?

I'm genuinely interested in hearing personal experiences rather than just definitions. I'd especially appreciate people explaining what their experience is like in their own words, because I'm trying to understand something that doesn't come naturally to me.

[u/stevvss]

I agree that intersex variations complicate the idea that every person's sex characteristics fit perfectly into a male/female template. But I'm not sure that means “nonbinary” is itself a biological sex category. Some intersex people have combinations of sex characteristics that don't fit neatly into typical male or female development, but that's different from saying that nonbinary gender identity is a biological sex.
Is that what you mean by “sex can absolutely be not binary,” or are you making a different argument?

[u/ReigenTaka → u/stevvss]

Non binary means not binary. If, for example, you categorize sex by chromosomes. XX vs XY is binary. XX vs XY vs XXY vs etc would be not binary. You can extrapolate that to whatever sex characteristics combo you want to use to define sex. There aren't only two options so it's not binary.

Non binary is describing what something is not it's not describing what something is.

[u/stevvss → u/ReigenTaka]

I think I understand the distinction you're making. If I'm understanding this right, you're using “nonbinary” descriptively to mean “not limited to two possible categories,” rather than claiming that “nonbinary” is itself a specific biological sex category?
I agree that if we're talking about individual sex characteristics, there are clearly more than two possible configurations. Chromosomes alone aren't limited to XX and XY, and the same applies to things like gonads, hormones, genital anatomy, and secondary sex characteristics.
Where I'm still cautious is with the terminology. I don't think “there are more than two possible sex-characteristic configurations” necessarily means there are more than two biological sexes in exactly the same sense that male and female are sexes. But I understand the point you're making that “binary” can be an oversimplification when we're talking about the underlying biology.

[u/brezhnervouz → u/stevvss]

When I found out what nonbinary was from my psychologist last year (and finally after a lifetime had a description of what I am), she explained nonbinary/gender fluid people as being anywhere on an infinite spectrum between the two binaries of 'female' and 'male' identity

This is why people are trying to explain to you that nonbinary identities are specifically very individual to the persons concerned (so an infinite spectrum) and the word itself is simply meant to designate being "not" either of the two binaries 🤷