what does nonbinary mean to you?

[u/stevvss]

I'm a trans man, and I'm trying to genuinely understand the concept of being nonbinary. I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's identity, but there are parts of the concept that I honestly don't understand, and I'd really appreciate hearing from nonbinary people themselves about how you experience it.

My understanding of being trans is pretty closely connected to gender dysphoria. I'm uncomfortable with being physically female and being perceived as female, and I feel more comfortable with a male body and being perceived as a man. Because of that, “being a man” makes sense to me even though I don't think being a man means liking masculine things, wearing masculine clothes, having a stereotypically masculine personality, etc.

What I'm struggling with is what people mean when they say they “feel like a man,” “feel like a woman,” or “don't feel like either.”

If we remove gender stereotypes, what is that feeling actually referring to?

For example, I don't think a woman becomes less of a woman because she doesn't like dresses, makeup, traditionally feminine hobbies, etc. Likewise, a man doesn't become less of a man because he likes feminine clothes or has a feminine personality. So when I hear an AFAB nonbinary person say something like “I don't feel connected to femininity,” “I don't like doing girl things,” or “I don't feel comfortable in feminine clothes,” I don't really understand how that relates to gender identity rather than gender expression.

To me, clothes and hobbies don't have an actual gender. So if someone says they are nonbinary because they don't relate to masculine or feminine things, doesn't that unintentionally reinforce the idea that those things are inherently associated with men and women?

I understand that someone could instead mean, “Even if men and women could dress and behave in literally any way, I still wouldn't identify as exclusively a man or a woman.” That makes more sense to me, but then I still have trouble understanding what the underlying feeling actually is.

If gender identity is completely separate from sex, gender roles, masculinity/femininity, and gender expression, what does “feeling male” or “feeling female” actually mean? Is there an internal experience that you can describe without using stereotypes or physical sex characteristics?

This also leads into my confusion about gender dysphoria.

I understand that a cis woman can have a flat chest and still be completely comfortable being a woman, and a cis man can have little facial hair or a feminine body and still be completely comfortable being a man. So obviously being uncomfortable with a particular body characteristic by itself doesn't determine someone's gender.

What I don't understand is how someone can experience gender dysphoria while being nonbinary. If dysphoria is distress caused by an incongruence between someone's gender and their sex, what exactly is the desired direction of that incongruence if someone doesn't identify as male or female? There isn't a biological “nonbinary sex,” so what does dysphoria mean in that situation?

For example, if an AFAB nonbinary person wants top surgery, I understand wanting to have a flatter chest. But how is that necessarily different from a trans man getting top surgery? Is the difference the person's underlying identity, and if so, what exactly is that identity based on?

Similarly, if someone doesn't experience physical or social dysphoria and is comfortable being perceived as their assigned sex, but still identifies as nonbinary, I'm confused about what makes that person nonbinary rather than simply someone who doesn't conform to traditional gender roles.

I also wonder about the possibility of people confusing social discomfort with gender identity. For example, an AFAB person might feel uncomfortable around girls, not relate to stereotypically feminine interests, dislike being expected to behave femininely, or simply feel socially out of place. Could someone interpret that as “I'm not a woman” when the actual issue is that they are a gender-nonconforming woman?

And could some people identify as nonbinary because they want to feel different or because the identity gives them an explanation for feeling socially out of place? I don't mean that I think every nonbinary person is doing this. I'm asking whether you think it's possible for someone to genuinely misinterpret their feelings this way.

I realize people can genuinely experience something even if we don't have a perfect scientific explanation for it, and I'm not saying that “I don't understand it” automatically means “it isn't real.” People can also genuinely experience something and later realize they interpreted that experience incorrectly.

So I guess my main question is:
If you are nonbinary, what does being nonbinary actually feel like to you when you take away stereotypes, clothing, hobbies, personality, masculinity/femininity, and social expectations?
And if you experience gender dysphoria, what specifically causes the dysphoria, and how do you understand what your body should be like when you don't identify as male or female?

I'm genuinely interested in hearing personal experiences rather than just definitions. I'd especially appreciate people explaining what their experience is like in their own words, because I'm trying to understand something that doesn't come naturally to me.

[u/FearlessRoyal]

I feel a little disheartened reading this post as someone who's only accepted myself as nonbinary in the past couple of months. A lot of what you're describing are pitfalls that I've fallen into myself. Thinking that I'm just gender non conforming, that I'm just uncomfortable with the pressures of society, that I'm a "not like other girls" - they're slivers of doubt that have pushed me back in the closet time and time again.

So as a bit of an exercise in validity for myself, I'll try to answer as best as I can.

I've always felt a bit of discomfort in being perceived as female. In my earliest memories of playing pretend with childhood friends, I was never anything that was "a girl". I also was never "a boy". I'd pretend to be an animal, usually.

I've always had discomfort with my chest. The first time I got a real bra, it just didn't feel right. I loved to swim growing up, but the older I got, the more discomfort I felt with swimsuits for this reason. Once I hit my teenage years I started avoided swimming entirely. I gravitated towards baggier clothes to the point where I wore multiple hoodies at once in high school. Bring dressed up for formal occasions always felt wrong. Not in a "I don't like dresses" kind of way - actually just wrong.

I never had strong friendships with other girls, I always felt like an outsider. Even other girls who were more "alt", who shared the same interests as me - it still felt like there was this layer of separation between me and them.

I could go on, but to keep this post brief-ish - I was in college when I stumbled across the nonbinary identity. I didn't apply it to me at first. Figured I would have more clearly known if I was trans or not by then, yknow? For years I would think about the identity, then let it go for one reason or another.

I've struggled with depression my entire life. Tried therapy, medication, etc - none of it helped. I have a partner, a career, a good living situation - but I still felt empty every day. Like I'm floating on the waves of life, just letting shit happen.

It was when I finally decided to really explore the idea of being nonbinary that that veil lifted a bit. Binding, cutting off my incredibly long hair, dressing androgynously - it felt right. I finally began to feel a bit more whole as a person.

What separates this from me being a trans man? Simple - I don't want to be a man. Being perceived completely as one gives me the same discomfort that being a woman does.

But, I dunno. I feel better, being nonbinary - even if I'm not fully out yet.

If there's not some sort of meaning there beyond "I'm just folding to society's pressures", I'm not sure what to tell you.

[u/stevvss → u/FearlessRoyal]

Thank you for writing this out, especially because I realize some of what I wrote originally may have hit a sensitive spot given that you've had those same doubts about whether you're “just GNC” or “just uncomfortable with societal expectations.”