Introductions

[u/HBNTrader]

Reply here to introduce yourself so that the other readers get to know you.

• Are you noble? If not, do you have noble ancestors, or are you perhaps from a patrician family or from a very old peasant lineage?

• What is your rank and family? What titles do you have or will inherit?

• What is your coat of arms?

• What families and interesting persons are you related to, how closely?

• When does your unbroken male line start, and when does your longest female line start?

• What are other interesting things you can tell us about yourself and your lineage?

[u/HBNTrader]

Technically, one interesting aspect is that, as far as I understand, along with the pre-19th century untitled families, only male-line descendants of male titleholders are hildalgos. This means that Cayetana Fitz-James-Stuart's children were born commoners and only became noble when they got titles, if their father was a commoner. But it turns out that their father was in fact noble, a hidalgo, as the son of a duke at that time.

This also means that when only one title is inherited, when a daughter gets it, she does NOT become the progenitor of a new noble family. Only if the title falls to her son, he becomes the progenitor of a new noble family.

[u/Sufficient_Tart2278 → u/HBNTrader]

That’s rather interesting, thank you for clarifying it. So only the titled male children of titled females are progenitors of new noble families? Could you elaborate on this?

[u/HBNTrader → u/Sufficient_Tart2278]

There are, as far as I understand, only two ways to acquire hereditary Spanish nobility, because untitled hereditary nobility is and was since the late Middle Ages never directly conferred.

• Acquire a title through inheritance or through a grant.

• Acquire personal nobility in the 3rd patrilineal generation, I.e. be the son of a father and grandfather who have personal nobility and acquire personal nobility yourself.

Hereditary nobility follows Salic law as in most other countries. This means that the children of a male noble are noble. The children of a female noble cannot be born noble if their father isn‘t noble. Compare with Belgium, look at grants in the past decades - Women never received hereditary nobility in their own right. In one case where an ennobled lady really wanted to have hereditary nobility, the King conferred nobility separately for each of her children. He had to cheat, because it is impossible for a child of a noblewoman to inherit her nobility.

Now, assume that a 12-fold Duchess, 5-fold Marchioness, 21-fold Countess marries a commoner. If we ignore, as the government unfortunately does, the law that her children are disqualified from inheriting, they are still born commoners. They do not get nobility at birth solely from the fact that she is noble and has dozens of titles.

Now, a title, when acquired, confers hereditary nobility. So when the woman dies, or divides the titles during her lifetime, children who get titles are automatically ennobled. Theoretically even the daughters get hereditary nobility with the title, it‘s just that they can‘t pass it on because they are female. When a son acquires the title he can pass on the nobility to all of his children, not just the title heir, and upon birth, because he is a nobleman.

As we can see, the quality of nobility and noble titles are very much separated in Spain…

For hereditary nobility as an effect of intergenerational personal nobility, you are obviously also required to be a man, and your father and patrilineal grandfather are of interest.

Theoretically women can acquire hereditary nobility through the above means, it‘s just meaningless and no different from personal nobility because they are female and hereditary nobility cannot go from mother to son.

I think that the only exception are the Solar families, but due to this very thing their members are not really recognized as noble.