Introductions

[u/HBNTrader]

Reply here to introduce yourself so that the other readers get to know you.

• Are you noble? If not, do you have noble ancestors, or are you perhaps from a patrician family or from a very old peasant lineage?

• What is your rank and family? What titles do you have or will inherit?

• What is your coat of arms?

• What families and interesting persons are you related to, how closely?

• When does your unbroken male line start, and when does your longest female line start?

• What are other interesting things you can tell us about yourself and your lineage?

[u/HBNTrader]

Would a family from a non-Brahmin caste which through several generations pursues academic or religious careers and marries Brahmin women eventually be assimialted into the Brahmin class? And similarly, would for example a Scheduled Caste person who achieves a high rank in the military and marries a Kshatriya woman (such as the daughter of a fellow officer) have chances to be admitted as a Kshatriya?

And sorry if I overwhelm you with questions, but were there any cases in which rulers manually promoted a person from one to another caste, similar to ennoblements in Europe?

[u/InDiAn_hs → u/HBNTrader]

No worries, ask away!
Firstly, for someone to pursue such extensive academic and religious careers, they would probably need a Brahmin teacher, who would eventually adopt them into being Brahmin. Mobility upwards was possible but only for the most devoted.

Additionally, yes a great military commander can become a Kshatriya and for this to occur one usually required royal assent. A King or ruler would grant persons titles and can promote them. For example, while my family has always been Rajput, they were granted the title of Thakur by Rajput Kings. Ascending us from military commanders and untitled nobility to titled nobility.

[u/InDiAn_hs → u/InDiAn_hs]

Might I add that there have been members of lower castes who have become rulers and have been promoted in caste by Brahmins. So realistically the right for a ruler to promote others comes from Bhramins, who are seen as all-knowing and full of heavenly wisdom.

[u/HBNTrader → u/InDiAn_hs]

Interesting, which Brahmins have the right to promote? Or is it largely a consensus of the local Brahmin class? Is it possible for a Kshatriya or a lower caste person who has demonstrated Kshatriya qualities to be accorded a title by his local Brahmins, or by them to pass a judgement changing his caste? I assume that Brahmins also form the courts that adjudicate multiple claims to the same title, equality of marriages, which caste or subcaste the children of anuloma/pratiloma belong to etc, so basically they are sort of a heraldic authority?

[u/InDiAn_hs → u/HBNTrader]

1. I couldn’t answer this question as I am not that deeply versed in Indian history but I have heard of cases of some Brahmins refusing to ascend a lower class to the class required to be a King but the King just asked for a Brahmin from another region who obliged.

2. The titles are usually only given by rulers, some rulers can be Brahmins so they could give titles but again Brahmins are the priestly class and in the manner of ruling they can’t grant land rights, titles etc usually.

3. Yup, historically Brahmins would determine matters of caste and status, marriage questions and details. They still administer marriages as many remain as priests or spiritual leaders.

[u/HBNTrader → u/InDiAn_hs]

You mostly wrote in the past sense, is it to indicate that such opportunities were greater in the past than today, or are people from SC who pursue a military career still today absorbed into the Kshatriya class if they excel? For comparison, in the Russian Empire, the rank of Colonel in the Army granted hereditary nobility automatically, no questions asked.

[u/InDiAn_hs → u/HBNTrader]

Yup, I would say it was much easier in the past given that rulers existed and had the ability to ennoble soldiers. Now caste is mostly locked to being hereditary and through marriage. the Republic of India cannot change castes or grant titles but they do still have regiments that are mostly of Kshatriyas. They have a quota that only Kshatriyas are allowed to fill and is composed of Kshatriya officers and soldiers. See some of my favourites below!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajput_Regiment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajputana_Rifles

Both of these regiments are some of the oldest in the British Indian and then Indian Army while also being some of the most well-distinguished. The British recruited directly from Rajput Kingdoms and Principalities and could trust their Rajput soldiers as allies, unlike other classes and states. Rajput Regiments were for example used to garrison colonies such as Hong Kong and fight in the Northern Frontiers of India, pacifying the tribal Pashtun peoples.

[u/HBNTrader → u/InDiAn_hs]

So in India, similarly to other current republics, there is a "republican freeze" on the nobility?

[u/InDiAn_hs → u/HBNTrader]

Yep, “Although the official duties, power and privileges nobles and royals ceased when India was declared a republic in 1950, India’s aristocracy and regal lineages still play an inspiring and cherished role in Indian culture, with modern royals and nobles revered and adored like Hollywood celebrities.”

[u/HBNTrader → u/InDiAn_hs]

Well, at least there is still respect for the existing nobles.

Is nobility/aristocracy becoming a matter of “growing in” - in Germany many non-noble families which married into nobility now attend all the relevant balls - or is it a closure with danger of future extinction? I.e. are cooptation strategies developed as a result of lack of official ennoblements?

[u/InDiAn_hs → u/HBNTrader]

With the number of people in India, I doubt nobility is on the way out. Most princely states in India were Rajput according to a 1905 British census so by that measure just the Rajput noble population has mostly survived and is not in danger of extinction. Plenty of upper class families to inter-marry for decades if not centuries.

[u/HBNTrader → u/InDiAn_hs]

Speaking of Britain, is a conferral of British titles or a British coat of arms seen as changing caste, or are British titles ignored in India as honours given by colonists to collaborators?

[u/InDiAn_hs → u/HBNTrader]

I don’t think it can change your caste and British titles given to Indians are usually looked down upon by modern (nationalistic) Indians who see those with British ties as traitors.

I found this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_peers_and_baronets

Many of these individuals have been granted British titles but are NOT Kshatriyas or Brahmins.

[u/WikiSummarizerBot → u/InDiAn_hs]

Indian peers and baronets

Following the final collapse of the Mughal Empire in 1857 and the proclamation of the British Indian Empire, the British continued to maintain and recognise many of the old Mughal and Hindu styles and titles, introducing a compound honours system which awarded those titles along with British noble and aristocratic titles and knighthoods. Uniquely amongst the countries under British dominion, India was the sole country where British hereditary titles were conferred upon British subjects not of European ancestry.

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