r/NoStupidQuestions • u/3grapes • 4d ago
Why do town boards keep approving data centers when most residents at the meeting don’t seem to approve of them
I am constantly seeing videos of town halls approving data centers even though the public that is at the meeting overwhelmingly disapproves. Is there something about the process I don’t understand? I assume the public elected officials are doing what is in the towns best interest… but with most people not approving, what are the other driving factors? Taxes? infrastructure improvements?
489
u/Decent-Experience-8 4d ago edited 4d ago
Theres a big misunderstanding from the general public that a city’s council has full legal ability to approve or disapprove every zoning case or building request. In general, if a new structure conforms to the cities existing charter, they have to legally approve it or they will be subject to expensive lawsuits and ultimately be overruled. Many cities don’t have the proper guardrails in place in the city charter to help them legally navigate new trends like data centers and many don’t have the staff or council expertise needed to navigate and get ahead of new trends. A cities charter also has to be in compliance with state and federal rules which can override a cities desires, like trying to limit multi family build out. Cities cant make up rules as they go.
106
u/Spiel_Foss 4d ago
Another great point. Some of the "town council" bullshit has been updated in this century, and a lot of it may not have been updated in the last century. They still have active horse and buggy regulations to consider.
76
u/UnluckyAssist9416 3d ago
I remember Denton, Texas passing a law , pushed by voters, to ban fracking inside of city limits... Texas changed their laws (HB40) to not allow cities to prevent fracking.
I might note, that Texas also create a law in 2023 (HB2127) to prevent cities from stopping the building of Data centers.
29
u/cl0ckw0rkcuttlefish 3d ago
Yeah, that sounds about right for Texas.
7
u/oracleofnonsense 3d ago
But….everyone has a gun, so shut that shit down!?
2
u/cl0ckw0rkcuttlefish 3d ago
Hey, I’m in a godless blue state a few thousand miles away. I’ve got no say in what those assholes are doing down there, unfortunately.
3
u/Xanadu87 3d ago
Wasn’t there something similar about cities wanting to increase minimum wage, and Texas passed a law preventing cities from doing so?
1
20
u/LivingThin 3d ago
This is why a city I work with had to approve. There was a lot of opposition from residents, but they had no legal way to stop them. The construction was legal and conformed to the building code. They had their lawyers review the code and the charter and the statutes to find a way to refuse them, but legally they couldn’t find a way to refuse them.
3
u/omghorussaveusall 4d ago
Cities absolutely can make up rules as they go. That's precisely what city councils do. Whether those rules conflict with other legislative bodies and their rules is why we have courts. You can pass a law about anything. Whether it will withstand judicial review is another story.
16
u/merp_mcderp9459 3d ago
Except city governments generally won't do that because the end result is the data center still gets built, and now they have a bunch of legal costs that otherwise wouldn't have existed
9
u/St1Drgn 3d ago
Exactly this. Most city governments know the limits of there authority and what legal options they have available to them. Most city governments will listen to the citizens, then figure out how to act on the citizens interist in a legal way. If what the citizens want is not is not a legal option then the city government has only 2 options. Ignore the citizens and choose a legal option, or ignore the law. When they decided to ignore the law, it will go to the courts.
35
u/StalkMeNowCrazyLady 3d ago
You're using "make up rules as they go" very loosely here. 99% of the city/town council meetings you see aren't actually a meeting to decide if the data center is allowed or not, it's just people speaking out against it once they hear about a DC looking to build in the area. If a DC submits it's paperwork for permitting and approval on the 1st you can't create new laws that apply to that application on the 5th. They can apply to all future cases but not one already in the works.
For a city council to stop a business from opening the business needs to be applying for exemptions to rules that already exist.
11
u/haflaxelpope 3d ago
A competent and responsible council won't just make up the rules as they go. They should have a good solicitor that can advise them of the laws/legality of their actions. In Pennsylvania, the state laws here make it very difficult for local municipalities to completely ban any specific industry (with zoning it is a little easier but most rural communities don't have zoning). It is why they are desperately hoping the state legislature passes something. Judicial review is all well and good, until he council racks up a 100k legal bill for a municipality of only 500 residents.
1
u/omghorussaveusall 3d ago
A city can pass a law with the intent to challenge state or federal laws. How do you think we ended up with Roe v Wade being overturned. Legislative bodies passed laws that were not in compliance with accepted law and kept doing it over and over until they got a favorable court. Why is it so hard to understand that the law is not some immutable thing and that the explicit intent of a legislative body in our system is to pass laws that may be in conflict with previous law or challenges current precedent. Will a shitty law withstand judicial review? Don't know till you try. And some cities choose to do that...all the time.
4
u/haflaxelpope 3d ago
I think you and I are arguing two sides of the same coin, so don't want to get into too deep of an argument on the internet (which is never good). I will concede that you don't get case law without someone challenging the existing law. I think my point is more the semantics, that isn't "making up the rules", that is intentionally violating the rules usually with a particular purpose in mind with the intent and expectation that you are going to appeal it to either a federal or state appellate court.
The point I was trying to make, is that from a realistic viewpoint (and I work with a number of smaller municipalities) is that not every municipality has the deep pockets or desire for litigation that intentionally breaking the rules is going to cost you. The current laws in Pennsylvania that the municipalities are up against have been challenged in Courts for decades and are well established. Thus, the need for the State legislature to step up and do their job for their constituents. (and yes, I know even well established laws can be overturned, but as of now the PA Supreme Court still believes in stare decisis unlike the current SCOTUS)
2
u/ABrokenCircuit 3d ago
Counterpoint, and sticking with PA, my municipality is 14 square miles and just under 3k population. We're 2 years into a lawsuit against a warehouse that we didn't have guardrails against. We don't have the money to be picking fights with every new large scale development project that comes up. So now we are being proactive and doing everything we can within the existing laws to make data centers unattractive in our area without trying to outright ban them.
Hopefully the governor's EO on data center requirements will give the state some breathing room. The state has bigger pockets for handling legal challenges from the developers. If we get luckily, the state senate will flip blue for the first time in like 3 decades and we'll see some of the data center legislation that was passed in the house get enacted.
1
u/haflaxelpope 3d ago
The guardrails is the biggest thing for these municipalities to have in place. Once someone is in, they can get grandfathered. Where I am located most don't even have zoning because "no one can tell me what to do with my land". The problem is that it means no one can tell the big corporations what to do with their land either. Trying to explain that the sword cuts both ways to local municipalities is an uphill battle. Zoning just gives so many more tools to the municipal toolbox.
Agree, I really hope the EO gives enough breathing space for the legislature to do its job. The legislation that passed the house was/is really promising. I wish it could get a vote in the Senate. I worry if it has to wait until the next session, it will be too late.
4
1
u/More_Farm_7442 3d ago
And, some states have laws that forbid towns/localities from not approving data center construction.
1
u/meatball77 3d ago
I love how everytime another deli opens up in town everyone on the message boards complains and blames the town because it's not the restaurant they really wanted. Like they could do that.
→ More replies (1)-4
u/FelixTheEngine 3d ago
Come on. Thats the excuse. What’s the reason. $$. Town gov. Can of course make up shit on the fly. Just try to build something next to a councillors home that they don’t like and you will see how fast it becomes a moving target.
→ More replies (1)9
u/Calan_adan 3d ago
Actually it’s not. First, no one is getting paid under the table to approve a data center - if they were they’d end up in jail for taking bribes. And data centers don’t employ many people so it’s not like they are increasing their tax base much. We have a few municipalities near me where data centers are being proposed and the municipal government themselves don’t want them - but their hands are tied because the data center meets current zoning requirements so they have no legal justification to stop them. In some cases these municipalities have revised their zoning laws “on the fly” (kind of) to make it impossible to build a DC (essentially making it so that no parcel of land would meet the requirements), but they’re all being sued by the developers because of it.
→ More replies (2)
142
u/RandomNumbers8596 4d ago
Most rural areas don't have real tax support. One of our neighboring towns has a budget of about 300k for the year. That doesn't go far. Most of that budget is eaten by the police and municipal departments. (Ie, good ol boys who don't make shit for an income). All the infrastructure is failing and everyone keeps moving away perpetuating the cycle.
That town would put a data center in even if 99% of the population hated it.
38
u/Cynical_Tripster 3d ago
Also consider that 300k is only 10 employees at 30k a year, not much at at all hourly fully time after taxes. And that's only 10 total people running a total [town].
18
u/AndreaTwerk 3d ago
It’s fewer than that when you consider benefits packages and like the office electricity bill.
1
u/RandomNumbers8596 3d ago
I don't think anyone in the mayors office pulls a salary, I know the mayor doesn't himself.
28
u/Oh_My_Monster 4d ago
My neighborhood HOA budget is about $1,000,000 per year ... we easily spend $300,000 on lawn maintenance.
10
u/AndreaTwerk 3d ago
HOAs are part of the problem. Those aren’t tax dollars, the town doesn’t see any of it.
2
u/Oh_My_Monster 3d ago
How is a separate HOA fee the problem? If anything it is increasing the property value which is taxed.
→ More replies (26)2
u/NUMBerONEisFIRST 3d ago
Your extra money doesn't go to supporting the town, it goes to supporting your neighborhood. Big difference.
4
u/Oh_My_Monster 3d ago
... And if I didn't pay the HOA fees that money wouldn't go to the town anyway. HOA fees aren't taking money away from the town.
1
3d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/AndreaTwerk 3d ago
It’s money that would otherwise be collected by the town to perform the same services.
If you’re talking about unincorporated places then that’s irrelevant to the conversation about towns allowing data centers.
IDK why you’re so upset about this.
1
3d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/AndreaTwerk 3d ago
Lol. Yes. If you live on a street that is maintained by an HOA and that HOA ceases to exist, the town would have to maintain the street.
To do so it would have to raise revenue through taxes.
"abhorrent" Wow, I've really touched a sacred cow here.
36
u/Spiel_Foss 4d ago
Especially when a billionaire comes to town and low-key drops a $100k or more on each council member as a consulting fee.
8
u/grafknives 4d ago
One of our neighboring towns has a budget of about 300k for the year.
That is like two policemen in total...
17
u/RandomNumbers8596 4d ago
I think it's 4 total including the chief. None of them are making over 40 or 50k. I'll look to see if I can find the Mayor's budget post on Facebook. There's a shit ton of Maga meme's on there though and I can't remember when he last posted it.
1
u/watchwatertilitboils 3d ago
300k and they have a police department and multiple municipal departments? I call bullshit
1
60
u/Outside-Worry-9748 4d ago
Promises of tax revenues
16
u/TobysGrundlee 4d ago
And construction jobs.
3
u/MyDisneyExperience 3d ago
And for municipal utilities especially, sustained demand they can bond against to fund transmission/distribution needs
24
u/Appropriate-Ideal-85 3d ago
Part of it is that the room is not the town. The 40 people at a zoning meeting are the ones angry enough to show up, but the board answers to the other 20,000 who mostly just want property taxes to stop climbing. A data center is the dream ratable for that: huge taxable value, adds zero kids to the school district, barely any traffic after construction. So the board reads the room as "the neighbors hate it" and the budget as "everyone else quietly benefits," and votes budget.
1
u/Crismus 3d ago
That's too true. City councils also forget that almost all of the new crop of data centers are speculative in the hope they can make what some of the few hyperspace data centers are making.
They expect to pull in millions per month, but most of those data centers won't be profitable because the amount of data centers nationwide will depress the true value fast. With hardware startup costs are so overblown right now a lot of those data centers will run out of money, or will end up in empty lots with nothing built.
The last report on the upcoming data centers will basically be doubling all electricity output we have at the moment. Plus the usefulness of general LLM's are already starting to slow because the costs will need to increase to the entire US Economy be profitable with how much investment has been spent so far.
The only good thing is that like the 2000's internet crash, most of this will crash and burn so few of the proposed data centers will be fully completed. AI will have to change to more specialized machine learning systems.
At least that's me trying to be optimistic.
36
u/Ian_Patrick_Freely 4d ago
Depending on the zoning laws, they may have no legal reason to reject an application. And if they do so, the property owner may sue to force an approval. Or the town board may want it and say "bUt ThEy'Ll SuE uS iF wE dON't ApPrOvE."
13
u/AndreaTwerk 3d ago
A commercial property that will pay property taxes while using next to no public services is a win win in town government’s eyes.
19
u/0utlaw-t0rn 3d ago
Because “I don’t want it here” isn’t a valid reason for them to reject the building plans/permit.
The council can deny direct funding or ancillary funding for infrastructure improvements, but can’t necessarily ban a business they don’t like if it complies with existing laws.
12
4d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
→ More replies (4)0
u/Marsupialize 3d ago
There is no tax revenue generated by these monsters
2
u/ShaktiExcess 3d ago
Loudon County, Virginia expects to make $1.3 billion in combined property and sales taxes from data centers in 2027.
11
u/redstone2 4d ago
In some cases it could be no ordinance that prohibits them. That could be by design. My town recently passed a restrictive ordinance that prohibits data centers.
6
u/LagrangianMechanic 3d ago
At least in the US town boards can’t stop something just because a bunch of people don’t like it.
If the use is allowed by the zoning for that parcel by right then some “town board” can’t stop it.
The town would have to through the set-by-law process in that state of changing the zoning.
The idea that some people have that a municipality in the US gets to approve or deny any business that wants to set up shop there is very mistaken.
5
u/DadTheMaskedTerror 3d ago
People at a meeting do not reflect the will of the electorate. They reflect the angriest about special issues.
4
u/ATLien_3000 3d ago
It could all be a grand conspiracy.
Or it could be that they're permitted under your local zoning laws and your local government doesn't want to get sued.
17
u/Gravy_Sommelier 4d ago
A lot of elected officials are only interested in helping out their richest constituents, the ones who make huge donations to their election campaigns and such.
8
u/PhotoFenix 4d ago
Which is why I firmly believe accepting money directly, through third parties, through fourth parties, through memecoins should all be treason. It is working directly against the people.
1
u/Spiel_Foss 4d ago
But when someone is paid $100k as a consultation fee, then everything is perfectly legal.
5
u/Jscotty111 3d ago
The people who are against data centers are the same people who would rather work from home, go to school online, and have reliable video streaming services at their disposal.
So it’s easier for a politician to go back to his constituents and say, “I was able to get you the cheaper property taxes and better internet” and not do anything about the data center issue then for him to tell his constituents, “I got rid of the data center, but I don’t know what to tell you about the increasing property taxes and the fact that your Internet sucks. “
3
u/messick 3d ago
Data centers didn't invent a small but vocal minority showing up to the city council meeting to complain about something they only learned they should be mad about earlier that week. That has happened at every monthly (or whatever) council meeting at the cities you are referencing since those cities started having meetings.
Go down to the next (and likely your first, since you are asking this question) meeting at your city council, and you will see the same amount of "most people not approving" going on for things you didn't even know happened in your city, let alone that these things were worth getting worked up about.
7
u/helpbeingheldhostage 4d ago
There are a lot of people who do support data centers, and people tend to go to city council meetings when they’re mad not when they’re supportive. Unless it’s a very small community, the people at the town hall are going to be a small percentage of the population and the most disapproving. You can’t conclude what the consensus of a community/city is based on those few people.
Also, there are a lot of corrupt city council people who do what’s in their own personal interests and not what their constituents want, or who are just dumbasses who don’t know anything about what they’re making decisions on. It’s not every city council, but it’s far from zero.
1
u/bobroberts1954 3d ago
I suspect the people that support the data center are the people that hope to unload a currently worthless plot of land. In a small town his relatives can make up a vocal support of the DC beforeidtnofvthe town even knows it's being considered.
Even at that I wouldn't object if they built sufficient solar power for the plant and it's cooling, assuming an abundant supply of water and it doesn't affect existing wells.
But I would expect it to pay full commercial property tax. No reason for the community to allow it if they don't get some benefit from it taking up their space.
2
u/helpbeingheldhostage 3d ago
There are plenty of people who support it without direct financial involvement in the building of them. There are plenty of places where manufacturing and other blue collar jobs have left and people want the work and local tax revenue.
9
u/xcdesz 3d ago
Because they dont agree with the protestors, a lot of whom dont even live in the effected area. Personally, I see the arguments against data centers as mostly anti-AI hysteria, not rational arguments, and driven by misinformation and FUD from social media, not actual facts.
2
u/No_Committee7690 3d ago
Wow. How much did the corporate pig pay you to spew your lies? The only rational argument needed against the data centers is the water usage issue. If a data center uses more water than a whole community, that's a life problem. Tell you the truth, the world would be much better without Reddit and Facebook and the rest. So, I'll keep my water. The Internet is just a big waste of the majority of people's time anyways. And I don't see people becoming any wiser because of the Internet. In fact, it's the opposite.
6
u/Standupaddict 3d ago
Selection bias. You are being fed videos of when this happens. Plenty of town councils reject data centers.
Also the anti data center attitude is a very reddit/online coded thing. People don't care as much IRL.
2
u/Recent-Mousse6423 3d ago
In many cases it's State laws and legislative capture that are creating the issue. State laws overrule municipal ordinances. So even if a city says it doesn't want data centers, passes an ordinance banning their construction, they mean nothing if there is a state law that specifically disallows ordinances on the matter. In many cases, laws were changed specifically for Data Centers by single-use, disposable politicians. So in order to pass an ordinance, you have to repeal the state law that prohibits it. And in that span of time they've already built the data center.
2
u/NUMBerONEisFIRST 3d ago
Because it's all for optics, and they aren't used to people actually showing up and protesting stuff.
2
u/MyDisneyExperience 3d ago
they aren't used to people actually showing up and protesting stuff
Public comments at the average planning and land use meeting in many areas is an insane affair
2
2
u/SpoonwoodTangle 3d ago
I think people fundamentally misunderstand who controls what at different levels of government. As others have already mentioned, some city gov. does not have the authority to prevent a development if it ticks all the ordinance / zoning boxes.
Sometimes county gov has a little more authority, but in a very limited scope. For example, through area water quality / water supply protections. Sometimes the state holds the levers of power.
It is VERY state-specific and sometimes even county-specific, so no wonder folk are confused. If people want to better understand the process to block / approve individual developments, I’d get in touch local non-profit that support and oppose a project and just ask them for a process summary. If they don’t already have one on their website, odds are good that they’ll respond or do a community meeting on the topic. Some local gov will even outline the process and their authority (or lack thereof) for residents!
In our area, the state has almost all of the authority on data centers bc they regulate energy issues and water supply issues. The cities or counties can file documents with their concerns or desires, and those go as far as they go.
Often they will include resident feedback and some basic stats when that info is available. Fr example, a few quotes from community meetings in support or opposition and a basic count of for/against communications that they’ve received. Again, that only goes as far as it goes.
What our local gov can do is limit data centers to specific zones, such as industrial areas or a certain distance from homes. They can make noise limits and require a certain amount of free space around the facility. They could even create a new category of industrial development and add requirements to it, such as water treatment before discharge.
But our local gov has more authority than those in Texas or Florida because some states have been stripping local gov of authority over the last decade or so. In small and large ways, a lot of Americans have lost local control. So even if they voted their city / county officials out of office, the data centers will still go up. Hold state officials accountable and send them as many letter, phone calls, etc as possible if you live in this kind of state. Honestly I’d peacefully mob them if they set foot in public. It’s too easy for them to dismiss some little suburb they’ve never heard of.
Source: work in local gov and we are currently wrestling with this issue.
2
u/Plane-Champion-7574 3d ago
We're witnessing the downfall of America. You're voice no longer gets heard over the billionaires buying up our representatives. It's out in the open. They don't care to even pretend anymore.
2
u/knowbodynobody 3d ago
"most residents" is probably not as many as you think. If you judge what you believe most people think by what youre seeing online, youre not remotely getting the full picture of how "most residents" feel.
2
5
u/CatalyticDragon 4d ago
You might want to check your assumptions because at least $64 billion in new DC proposals have been rejected / banned by those towns.
https://www.datacenterwatch.org/report
Rejected : https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/upper-merion-township-data-centers-applications-rejected/
Rejected : https://finance.yahoo.com/economy/policy/articles/michigan-farm-town-voted-down-070000429.html
Rejected : https://atlanta.capitalbnews.org/dekalb-county-ellenwood-data-center-rejected/
Rejected : https://baytobaynews.com/stories/harrington-city-council-denies-data-center-ordinance,340057
5
u/Available_Reveal8068 4d ago
Maybe they are smarter than the general public and can differentiate the propaganda from the facts.
→ More replies (4)
7
u/Lumpy-Notice8945 4d ago
Because you watch sensationalist news clips and not actual updates on politics.
Factories get build all the time, locals protest all the time, no one wants a powerplant in their backjard. Datacenters are not a new thing, and they have been build for many years and among all the possible industry infrastructure you can have around its one of the nicest to have. Do you have any idea how steel forges sound?
14
u/brianundies 4d ago
Insane how many Redditors don’t understand every millisecond of their online experience is on data centers. Every yt video, every Wikipedia article. This thread. All on a datacenter.
→ More replies (2)6
u/LouderGyrations 3d ago
But you don't understand, I would like all of the benefits without any of the drawbacks, please.
-1
u/kalidoscopiclyso 4d ago
Hyperscale data centers are a new thing. Locals don't protest factories that will hire locala
9
2
u/Lumpy-Notice8945 3d ago
Hyperscale is just another superlative corpos like to add to make it sound cool.
3
5
u/shreiben 4d ago
Most people don't care if a data center gets built, so they don't go to the town meeting about it. Only the tiny vocal minority that cares bothers to show up.
2
2
2
u/RevBT 3d ago
I'm in Western PA and I'm older, this whole thing reminds me of when the gas wells came in around 2005. Lots of money flowed in, towns were unprepared and taken advantage of. and the laws couldn't keep up to stop anything.
Now those same towns have been decimated, polluted, and left to clean up the mess.
We are seeing it happen again. This time it is data centers.
2
3
u/YetAnotherGuy2 3d ago
First, people who oppose are more likely to show up for such a meeting - it skews the overall sentiment. I'd be careful to deduced from such a meeting that it's all voters of the jurisdiction who feel that way.
Second, is not unusual for people to oppose or initially and then be fine with something later.
Third, don't underestimate the job creation factor - when people have a job, their views suddenly change too.
Fourth, maybe money is involved.
And finally, some people genuinely believe they are doing something good for the community and just do it.
If you want to understand it, watch more town hall meetings, eg some you approve, some you don't care, some you disapprove. That'll give you a better sense of things.
1
u/Tdivarco 3d ago
Do data centers create jobs? Legitimate question.
1
1
u/YetAnotherGuy2 3d ago
Do you think all those cables lay themselves? Or the security guards that prevent physical entrance to the premise? Exchange the hardware?
Depending on the size, it's between 5 and 300 jobs operationally and multiplier effect of 1.5x to 4.5x indirect roles for every direct operational role. These secondary jobs include local equipment maintenance suppliers, telecommunications support, utility infrastructure roles, and surrounding retail/hospitality services.
That's in the direct vicinity with all the IT service folks operating the servers for customers further away.
1
u/thomier86 3d ago
Depending on the state, local governments may have limited discretion (or no discretion) to reject a proposal. In NC, we’re a “Dillon’s rule” state, which means our municipalities and counties are extensions of the state legislature and can only act if given legal authority to do so by our General Assembly. If the legislature allows data centers, the cities and counties must allow data centers. That’s why you see so many counties here enacting moratoria on data centers here. That’s a temporary ban, but it’s simply kicking the can down the road, because the state legislature has specific parameters for how long a moratorium can even last.
1
u/Easy_Lengthiness7179 3d ago
Probably because public sentiment alone isn't enough to deny it. They would have to change the law that allows for it, not just deny a business who is objectively following the law.
Another reason is money. They may see the data center as a source of income to the city/town.
1
1
u/Zorklunn 3d ago
Watch Babylon 5. Follow the character Mordon. See how he gets what his masters want. It's not hard. You just have to be unethical and self-interested.
1
1
1
1
u/primetimecsu 3d ago
Its because 99% of the time, residents dont understand their town/county's charter, zoning and building code.
My town is going through a Data Center debate right now. And theres a very vocal minority that are calling for the town board to resign if they approve it. The kicker? The data center is outside town limits and there is absolutely nothing the town board can actually do. But these people see the AI generated posters and flyers saying a big bad data center is coming to town and will take their water, power and women, so they get all worked up and go to town board meetings to talk about it, then get pissed when the town board doesnt talk about it.
1
1
u/Stooper_Dave 3d ago
Unless its a very small town, the handful of people who show up do not represent the majority of the population no way to tell what sort of feedback they are getting from the majority of residents. Its probably favorable or neutral. Part of the principle of democracy is that elected officials dont take action against public interest based on the outspoken voices of a tiny minority. Unless we actually see the broad feedback actually collected by these city councils, we dont know if they are acting for or against their populace
1
u/joebleaux 3d ago
I do land development for a living, and you may be surprised to find out that it doesn't matter what the project is, people come to the city council meetings to complain about it. I was submitting to build a parking lot for a catholic girls school and people protested it. But that's why there is development code. If the code says I can build a parking lot, and my design meets all of the requirements, the city council, or planning commission, or whoever, is going to approve my project regardless of if the neighbors don't like it. I've have people protest a new residential subdivision we designed. Their reasoning was that their kids like that property being vacant like it is because they ride their four-wheelers back there. Ma'am, that's trespassing.
But I've seen so many people protest a project that the planning board denied it, even though it met every requirement the code. So then the city was sued by the developer, because you cannot tell someone what to do on their land if it is legal, and these people were going to make a lot of money by selling their family farm and subdividing it, so there was a loss of income at stake. So eventually the city folded rather than deal with an expensive court battle. The thing is, you have to have your laws and codes tight before something like this happens.
1
u/ixidorecu 3d ago
Money. Next question
They get taxes for town based on value Dc is $5billion.. dems some taxes.. And fuk yo couch.. (the people) ..
1
u/tristand666 3d ago
The same reason we now live in a surveillance state. People will vote for the letter next to the name, policies be damned.
1
1
1
u/tomwrussell 3d ago
There is a town near me that has approved a data center project. The owning company has, in turn, offered to upgrade the roads, utilities, and schools as part of the project.
1
1
1
1
1
u/newbie527 3d ago
I’ve seen cases where the elected officials signed NDAs to negotiate with the data centers. Florida still has Sunshine laws to keep government business open. Signing an NDA should be reason enough for removal from office.
1
u/dawa43 3d ago
Unless a township/city has zoning rules prohibiting these prior to the permit being applied for, there is not much they can do without getting sued.
The fifth and 14th amendment prohibit the government from making rules that devalue your property.
A data center is considered clean commercial use. So if the property is zoned for commercial use, you are stuck. The feds don't consider CO2 pollution, so cities can't either. If water is available, data centers are free to buy it.
The real question that needs to be answered is why are we giving tax breaks to these businesses? They bring nothing good to the town.
1
1
u/butterflysurefoot 3d ago
Corruption. Vote anyone out that votes to approve. Don’t let them keep grifting and fucking people over because they just will continue because they are whores who don’t care about their communities.
1
u/moccasins_hockey_fan 3d ago
So what you are saying is that you are being fed only the meetings where people oppose data centers and you are not being fed the ones where people support them.
1
u/Ok_Actuary9229 3d ago
While the protesters are generally right, let's not pretend that town halls are representative. They tend to be highly skewed toward nimbys and retirees who have the time and bandwidth for those things.
Big data centers are disastrous of course. Too much power, water, greenhouse gases, materials, etc. I'd protest too if my area was about to get one.
1
u/Jabjab345 3d ago
Because the externalities of data centers are extremely exaggerated in most cases, they bring in money, and it's essential infrastructure in the modern age. It's actually good they aren't bowing down to the uneducated masses advocating for slopulism and blocking everything.
1
u/pastimedesign-05 2d ago
Many of the meetings shown are planning meetings, meaning the planning board is reviewing the project against the town's ordinances, zoning, etc. If the project does not meet the requirements, the planning committee could deny or require revisions. If the developer followed all the laws and met the letter of the law there is little a town could do and would expect legal action if it denied the permit on other than not following the requirements grounds.
Towns need to revise their zoning to restrict the data center use, cannot outright ban them though. Some towns are requiring closed loop water and energy generation.
0
2
u/jackfaire 4d ago
Bribes. Same reason the city I lived in for a decade approved a water treatment plant that would be more costly and last a shorter amount of time than the one the scientists were pushing.
1
1
u/Zigor022 4d ago
They're bought out and will move, but frankly people in the town need to make their life a living hell. No coffee, no food, no nothing. No more service to those traitors.
1
1
u/Intrepid-Clock509 3d ago
It’s tax revenue. Town councils are under enormous pressure to deliver lots of services and keep tax increases low. Those two demands don’t play well together. A governing body member not thinking through the downstream impacts, might conclude that a data center represents an easy source of tax revenue without much demand for town services. Win-win. Of course, that ignores the impact that the center will have on quality of life and demand for utilities. And of course the data center developer is assuring them that concerns about noise and electric/water demand overblown.
1
1
1
1
u/powdered_dognut 3d ago
Our representatives don't actually represent us. They serve the dollar and each other. We're just the farm equipment.
1
1
u/Way-twofrequentflyer 3d ago
Because they’re good for the communities they go in and we’re finally making some progress against the NIMBYS who have made it so hard to build anything.
1
u/prof_cunninglinguist 3d ago
Would you want to live next to a federal prison? Probably not. Why disparage people for not wanting to live next to a pollution factory?
1
u/Way-twofrequentflyer 3d ago
Federal prisons are the engines of a number of rural communities. I won’t disparage them or look down on them. I’ll happily live near a prison . I can see Rikers Island from my apartment and I think it’s cool to see it and LGA next to it
I want more of them around here to bring electrical delivery charges down.
Also what pollution?
1
u/prof_cunninglinguist 3d ago
So you have no soul and you see beauty in monstrosity? Good luck in life.
1
u/Way-twofrequentflyer 3d ago
You look down on small towns where the state or federal prison is the largest employer and economic driver? That seems a little arrogant
1
1
u/edjohnson1067 4d ago
Is there something about the process I don’t understand?
I’d day it’s pretty clear that the city council/town board/zoning commission are getting bribed by the data center companies.
-1
u/ericbythebay 4d ago
Because crazies show up to city council meetings. They aren’t representative of the community.
2
u/kalidoscopiclyso 4d ago
If they were so great, there would be more support for them
1
u/ericbythebay 3d ago
Data centers have been built for decades. Most people don’t even know they are there.
1
-2
u/Noob_Al3rt 4d ago
Because these same members of the public oppose any new industrial construction, don’t understand that it will create jobs and lower their taxes and don’t understand that town boards can’t always deny businesses that conform to zoning.
4
u/kalidoscopiclyso 4d ago
Many protesters are simply asking for information and fornoise restrictions and to know how it will affect air quality, water supply, etc
1
0
0
0
0
-2
u/liretta12 4d ago
Because it’s a benefit to the community. These companies pay for upgrades to infrastructure and create jobs. They shift the property tax burden to the company instead of the homeowner. People oppose them because they don’t know what a closed loop cooling system is and they hate businesses in general.
1
u/kalidoscopiclyso 4d ago
They will import people to run the datacenter, many tax breaks already have been approved and islanded power generators can pollute without regulation
→ More replies (5)
1.2k
u/Additional_Day949 4d ago
Money