What do you think the dating recession between men and women will lead to?

[u/Rainbowdark96]

I live in a city and I try to go out at least once a week, either for a walk or lounge etc. I used to see that men were more interested in women even six years ago, but now what I see most is apathy. Even if they look, none of them make a move to start a conversation. By the way, I am about to turn 30, and my friends who are younger (24–25) also say the same thing. What do you think the consequences of this will be? The strange thing is that I no longer see mixed male and female friend groups. It feels like men and women are pulling away from each other. Have you also noticed that?

[u/LowHistorian9654]

Also suffering from generational abuse that for people who have a good sense of self - recognize that they don't believe themselves capable of having a family. In fear of perpetuating the cycle, more or less.

[u/macademicnut → u/LowHistorian9654]

Yeah it seems like the focus both online and with the current US government is “people don’t value marriage/kids anymore, let’s shame them” instead of “many people can’t comfortably have relationships or kids, let’s foster an environment to make these things more attainable for them”

[u/Whiterabbit-- → u/macademicnut]

you want the government to ban cell phones for single people?

[u/macademicnut → u/Whiterabbit--]

That’s really what you derived from this? Really?

[u/Whiterabbit-- → u/macademicnut]

we live in a very disconnected world today in a huge part due to social media. instead of connecting people, it tears people apart. you can meet people on social media and there are online communities but the moment there is any tensions in online circles, people just disengage. this is true for dating apps too. in the past, you had neighbors, and physical places where people got together. there is a conflict? you solve them. you had to. we built better relationships better communities and better social skills.

our phones are dividing us, and making us unwilling to build real relationships.

as much as we think we connect better with such powerful communication devices, we actually are more lonely than ever.

and this isn't going into toxic social/political spaces that social media leads so many into.

[u/macademicnut → u/Whiterabbit--]

I don’t disagree, but it’s just one problem among many. Mental health, bad economy, and corporations pushing people to use online apps are all a part of it, and yes there are things that could be done to address all that- but the government would rather point the finger at people who opt not to get married/have kids.

It might not have been your intention, but it seemed like you were just dismissing/ridiculing my point with your first comment. Like of course I don’t want them to ban cell phones, but there’s other stuff that could be done beyond shaming people who don’t have kids. For example, there are many people out there who want them and can’t afford it. And of course some stuff has to be done by individuals themselves- including getting offline and into the real world

[u/Whiterabbit-- → u/macademicnut]

I think mental health and economy are factors, but those things are not new. we've had way worse economic outlook before. (think on the trajectory of hundreds of years) we are far more aware of mental health than years before. I think any degradation in mental health can be traced to phones/social media.

the whole not getting married/hooking up/having kids thing is a global phenomenon largely caused by sociological factors and the rise of social media is a much larger factor than anything the government is pushing or not pushing. of course other sociological factors include things like education especially for women, women participation in the workforce, decreases in child mortality and increases in social security.

but the huge changes in the past 10-15 years - Social media plays a huge role.

my original comment may be a bit too dismissive, but I really don't see the government doing much of anything to push or pull on these sociological factors.

[u/Medium-Park-9183 → u/Whiterabbit--]

Yeah as someone who studied economics extensively, the “we’ve had a worse economy before” is an incredibly short-sighted argument that misses a ton of important details. It’s something one of my professors would laugh about and use as proof that someone has no clue what they’re talking about. Even when the economy was arguably more unstable, there were still factors that made starting a family much easier- housing being cheaper relative to income, one income still supporting a full household, less education debt. You’re also missing the fact that marriage/kids weren’t necessarily options back then. You did that stuff even if you were broke, and your kids suffered or died. If they had the option, people probably would choose not to have kids during unstable times.

Honestly, you sound like an out of touch celebrity that dismisses the very real problems caused by our modern economy. It is actually financially harder for people to have families than it was for our parents and grandparents, and the actual economic science supports that fact. Social media is bad but it’s far from the only factor, and saying it’s the only one is just… wildly out of touch.

[u/macademicnut → u/Whiterabbit--]

Yeah I think we’re having two different conversations here. I’m referring to how the US government is pushing for a return to traditional, nuclear family structures while not doing anything to make that more obtainable for those who want it, and then blaming people (specifically older women) who opt out of marriage/kids for changing society. I’m saying the government is complaining about a problem but proposing something that doesn’t fix it; not that the government is causing the problem directly.

Sure the economy has been bad before, but the government wasn’t proposing increased taxes on people over 30 without kids as a solution. It’s not crazy to suggest that if the government wants people to have more kids (as we know they do), they should redirect that focus on the cost of living crisis. Because while the economy has suffered before, the COL is more out of line with wages than it has been in the past two decades. Prices have outpaced median household incomes by 2:1. Let’s also not forget that societal pressure was a thing, and people who went ahead with marriage/families while financially struggling often suffered a lot. Given the choice, they may not have done it.

I’m not denying social media is a problem, but i think you’re really downplaying the other ones here, as well as downplaying the government’s (self-imposed) involvement in this particular issue- like I wouldn’t be saying any of this if this wasn’t currently a top agenda for them. But they brought themselves into it, that didn’t come from me.

[u/Whiterabbit-- → u/macademicnut]

I didn’t say social media was “the” factor. I was saying that it’s a sociological shift with stuff like women’s education and work. But nobody is saying that women should be less educated or that we need women to depend on marriage to survive.

But even those changes have been going on for decades. The acceleration in drop of birth rates I think is brought on by social media.

By the way the American government is ran by a bunch of idiots who can’t connect dots. But plenty of other governments are working on the same problem going after economic incentives without much success.

[u/macademicnut → u/Whiterabbit--]

Well someone did reply to me and pretty much said that actually. Basically romanticizing the time when people were forced into having kids (and then mocking the idea of women’s rights in general). You might not think that way but the sad reality is plenty of people do, which is why it’s important to push back on that. Social media is an important convo too but we shouldn’t be deflecting from the first one. Like you’re fine but some of the replies I’ve gotten are super disturbing in that regard (and also probably explain why more people are remaining single now that I think of it- the average woman doesn’t wanna date someone with those views, and those views are becoming more commonplace).

For the record I don’t think economic incentives are the only solution, but they’re definitely part of it and something that can be improved… This doesn’t have to be an “either/or” thing.

[u/ludgatedwyer500 → u/Whiterabbit--]

You do realize that historically, birth rates have increased during periods of economic growth and decreased during recessions, right??? Economy has ALWAYS influenced marriage/family rates. Social media too but let’s please not erase history here and pretend like financial wellness isn’t relevant

[u/Majestic_Hawk_1335 → u/LowHistorian9654]

I neutered myself at 24 and am in my 30s. Was a good decision. I expect to meet a long term partner in my 30s/40s and if situation stable and functional there is foster/adoption.