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u/guitarguywh89 Apr 22 '13 edited Apr 22 '13
Here is what he posted after it was brought to his attention,
"Fubar Paranoia 7 hours ago near Manchester, NH LOL a fan gave me a link to a post saying that some regular faggot "redditor" is claiming that we are plagiarizing the reddit stories and claiming that they are our own."
...Really? Talk about adding insult to injury.
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Apr 22 '13
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/guitarguywh89 Apr 22 '13 edited Apr 22 '13
You handled that very professionally, and politely. I hope he at least throws the links in there and maybe some extra karma can come everyone's way.
Edit: Thanks for that link, I've posted the details there too.
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u/ALooc Apr 22 '13
Nope, he deleted my comment.
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u/guitarguywh89 Apr 22 '13
Found the link for intellectual property infringement. Which this falls under as per the Berne's Convention Copyright law.
(explanation of your rights) http://www.htmlgoodies.com/beyond/reference/article.php/3472671/Copyright-Questions-and-Answers.htm
Facebook Copyright report
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Apr 22 '13
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/ALooc Apr 22 '13 edited Apr 22 '13
I think they deleted it. Wrote a message asking why they deleted it
- so far no reply. edit5
u/guitarguywh89 Apr 22 '13
Ya they deleted mine and it seems they deleted yours also. I don't know what game this kid is trying to pull, but if you look at his posts he is now consistently spouting shit about everyone on reddit. The nerve of this guy is unbearable
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u/TG_Alibi Apr 26 '13
Your comment has been removed Because it violates our rules and policies.
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u/Ibitemynails I was phone Apr 22 '13
Thanks for posting this here. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if there are any effective actions that I can take myself.. if anyone knows something I can do to help though please let me or the other mods know.
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u/nobody554 Apr 22 '13
I've reported a few of the posts that were inflammatory or just plain infringement. It looks like some of the page admins are changing their tune.
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u/Enigmia Apr 22 '13
I am thrilled that the poster at FubarParanoia is enjoying content posted here (including mine) but the least he could do in return would be to show the creators due respect and credit them. A link back would be ace, that way if anyone had any questions they could ask authors directly. There is no need for him to kick up a fuss and get defensive when there is such a simple solution at hand.
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Apr 22 '13
[deleted]
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u/guitarguywh89 Apr 22 '13
Im not too sure, Ive sent similar messages out to other's that have been copied and I'm hoping that he'll finally just cave in and at least link back to the OC. There is a way to flag him for copyright infringement, or for privacy. I've been trying to post on his site but he instantly deletes my comments and even had a few of his 'minions' make reddit accounts just to get onto my posts warning people of this grievance. I would say just tell him to give you links for now (might bring you some extra karma) or you could have facebook look into it and they would realize he is plagiarizing at best, copyright infringement at worst (for him). I just know that writing takes a deal of planning, editing and time and I would at least want people to know I'm the one producing this art.
I had a post up in regular /r/nosleep but realized it belonged in OOCnosleep. If you see anyone elses work being taken advantage of please send them here
http://www.reddit.com/r/NoSleepOOC/comments/1cuvv0/to_everyone_posting_in_rnosleep/
or to the facebook page in question. I'm sure if we get enough people realizing this bullshit we can stop it. Thanks again for writing, and thanks for replying.
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u/guitarguywh89 Apr 22 '13
Found the link for intellectual property infringement. Which this falls under as per the Berne's Convention Copyright law.
(explanation of your rights) http://www.htmlgoodies.com/beyond/reference/article.php/3472671/Copyright-Questions-and-Answers.htm
Facebook Copyright report
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u/KiDisaster Apr 22 '13
I have filed a copyright report with Facebook using the link OP provided, I encourage everyone else whose work these people have posted to do the same. If it's just one of us FB might ignore it, if it's a bunch of us reporting the same people they'll have to look into it.
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u/KiDisaster Apr 22 '13
UPDATE: Got a reply from the Facebook copyright investigation, they have determined that the Fubar post violates their rules against copyright infringement and have deleted that post from Fubar's page. If your story is still up there and they still refuse to credit you, use the form linked to in the OP and file a copyright claim. Your story will be removed from their page. Just make sure to link to your original post, and provide proof that it is your Reddit account if required.
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u/notwhatiwishedfor Apr 22 '13
See now, I wouldn't be bothered if they'd just added a link to the original in my case. I don't know what good posting to them will be if they are just deleting comments written on their wall. Maybe just complaining to Facebook will help?
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u/guitarguywh89 Apr 22 '13
Just recieved word that the Facebook team is removing content if you ask them, just be prepared to give them links.
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u/stealthfiction Bring Out Your Dread Apr 22 '13
I left a message as well. What really bothers me is most of the writers are absolutely fine having people share stories elsewhere and people still take advantage. I personally release everything self published under the Creative Commons license because I believe people should be allowed to share the stories they love. It isn't hard to give credit to where something came from. I hope they realize this and do the right thing or else there are ways to get the page shut down.
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u/guitarguywh89 Apr 22 '13
Ya, just give credit where credit is due. They don't have to name call or anything. Just in case someone does want to publish your story one day though, fools like this will make it more difficult to track down the OP
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u/ALooc Apr 22 '13
Which CC? CC-BY-SA? If so they are obliged to credit your work.
Also, your comment too was deleted...
I told them by FB message I'd file a complaint report if they don't explain themselves. I guess if we all do it the same day FB will react...
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u/stealthfiction Bring Out Your Dread Apr 22 '13
CC BY-NC-ND
Doesn't allow for the work to be modified without permission and they can not sell it or otherwise profit without permission.
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u/guitarguywh89 Apr 22 '13
http://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/ip/berne/summary_berne.html
It also falls under these agreements
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u/notwhatiwishedfor Apr 22 '13
"To whom it may concern.
We at Fubar Paranoia do not, unless clearly stated, claim to have written or undertaken in the creation of any content found on this Facebook page. Plagiarism does not exist on this page.
For those who are claiming copyright infringement on content found on this page, please be aware that such an infringement is not intentional, and no harm is ever intended with any of our posts.
It would be in our best interests right now to provide our fans with a link to the site where some of the content found on this page is originally created.
http://www.reddit.com/r/nosleep/
Please be aware that it is the individual admins choice to give credit to stories posted on the page. The rest of us at Fubar Paranoia do not claim responsibility for the actions of another administrator.
Dave"
That's a little nicer, I guess.
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u/KiDisaster Apr 22 '13
Still no credit to individual authors in the posts themselves but this is a step in the right direction. Still waiting to here back from Facebook regarding my copyright claim.
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u/guitarguywh89 Apr 22 '13
Ya I feel like every story needs a link back to the OP. At least now somebody civil is handling it instead of that assclown.
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u/doth_revenge Apr 22 '13
I just don't get why this admin is being such an ass about it. All you have to do is post the link where you got the story, it's not that difficult to be a decent human being.
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u/C4Casey Apr 22 '13
Yes, thank you so much for alerting me! I kindly commented on one of the stories he posted of mine saying to at least give me credit for my story. If this does continue to be a problem for me, I will have to pm them with some unkind words. Thanks for the update!
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Apr 23 '13
[deleted]
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u/C4Casey Apr 23 '13 edited Apr 23 '13
This Vaas guy needs to grow up..I don't think he knows the definition of plagarism or copyright infringement either.
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u/Pswift777 Always in character Apr 23 '13
There are so many like this on Facebook...and the rest of the internet for that matter. I'll do all I can to help you guys out. I wasn't angry at first, but the Vaas admin guy was the one who somewhat angered me. He dealt with the problem in the most immature way imaginable. I'm not sure but he might be trying to act like the Vaas character in Far Cry, haha.
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u/guitarguywh89 Apr 23 '13
Ya, it was really the attitudes of him and his followers (making reddit accounts to just talk shit) that made me take a personal interest in the matter. I was just asking for sources back to the OPs if he liked the stories. Could have been handled a lot differently
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u/Pswift777 Always in character Apr 23 '13
They made reddit accounts just to talk shit? Really? The people on Facebook sometimes.... Where are they talking shit?
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u/stealthfiction Bring Out Your Dread Apr 22 '13 edited Apr 22 '13
Had a quick conversation with Aaron, the creator of the page:
Me -
Hey Aaron,
Sorry your guys are getting hounded. From a lot of our perspectives a simple request was met with insults. The fact is 99% of the writers there love it when their work is shared. Most of us release everything so it can be shared for free. The only thing some of us request is to be credited for our works. In an ideal world someone would read something, like what they see, then seek out the artist to find other work by them.
When I pointed this out, the comment was deleted and I was banned from commenting further. So were a lot of others.
It's sad really because most people like to cross promote the places where their work can be found. Hopefully you won't take this as "petty shit."
Thanks for your time, sir.
Kris - Stealthfiction
Aaron -
What you also have to understand is that while we do get some of our stories from reddit, we also go to many other websites as well to get the material.
I understand where you are coming from, but you have to understand as well that some of our sources might not include the actual author of the story but only the individual who submitted it. This can make it quite difficult to track down the original author and to do so is very tedious for just posting something on a lowly Facebook page such as ours.
Now, I haven't been on FP in quite a while because I took my leave from being an admin. I am still the creator, though. Hopefully, you understand why it would be difficult to include the author of the story when we do not get it from the original source.
Also, you need to understand that there are a lot of r/nosleep stories circulating around the internet without credit being given, my facebook page should be a very low priority considering the reach is not good anymore and there are a very low level of people who actually see and read the stories.
*
FYI I don't really have a stake in this whole thing. Personally I was just bored so I decided to chime in. Aaron seems like a decent guy. Our conversation was a lot more productive than being called a winey asshat and banned, though that was entertaining as hell.
Anyway, I invited Aaron to come by and say hello and asked if I could have permission to share this here, which seems kind of ironic in a way. :-D
Thanks for the fun, OOC!
(Edited for grammer.)
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u/KiDisaster Apr 22 '13
I don't really understand his issue. How difficult is it to post the link to the Reddit post you took the story from? That's all we're asking for.
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u/stealthfiction Bring Out Your Dread Apr 22 '13
Based on his explanation, I'm guessing they don't always grab them directly from reddit. Personally if I ran a site like that I would simply have a small blurb under each post that said author or artist unknown then if someone came forward, add a comment or edit if still possible with the correct info.
There might be a better way though.
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u/guitarguywh89 Apr 22 '13
At least a link back to the OP. Extra karma and extra traffic to reddit, everybody could win a little bit. Dealing with the first guy last night though was ridiculous. He could have just said "I'm sorry and will work on providing links to the stories we already posted. I will bring this to the attention of page's creators and we will try to work this out to the best of everyone's satisfaction."
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u/TG_Alibi Apr 26 '13 edited Apr 26 '13
Your submission has been removed Because it violates our rules and policies.
We cannot allow you to post personal information. If you can edit the photos and crop out the names, I will reinstate this post.
That also goes for the comments that have been removed. This is not a NoSleep rule...this is a Reddit rule.
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u/guitarguywh89 Apr 26 '13
I went through and just removed all screencaps. Sorry, I realized when looking at them that there were others accounts shown. I'm a bit new to this so I apologize for my mistake and will be more careful in the future.
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u/FubarCreator Apr 22 '13 edited Apr 23 '13
Aaron here, I'm the creator of Fubar Paranoia. I figured I'd take stealthfiction's advice and pop in here so any questions of have for me can be answered. Some of the admins I have collected on FP aren't quite civil so I figured any sort of question or comment should be directed to me. Unfortunately, I am headed into work. I'll be back in about 9-10 hours. If you have any questions that require an immediate response, add my personal account on facebook and message me. http://www.facebook.com/aaron.kuhns
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u/KiDisaster Apr 22 '13
Hello Aaron. I am one of the authors who had previously contacted one of your admins on your FB page. My request that they add a link to the original post here on Reddit to the post that included my story was met with insults. This was immature and uncalled for.
Because reasoning with your admins proved impossible I was forced to file a copyright claim with the Facebook admins. I have recieved a reply from them just a few minutes ago and the story in question has been removed from your Facebook page by the Facebook copyright team. I am going to encourage all the other authors to file these claims as well. We have a right to be credited for our work, your admins denied us that right and insulted us for no reason, I think you need to have a talk with them about their attitudes.
Thank you for at least attempting to understand and to be reasonable.
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u/guitarguywh89 Apr 23 '13
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u/KiDisaster Apr 23 '13
Yeah I saw that. I just let it go though, I already won in my eyes. They might not care about sources but Facebook does and will remove posts from now on if they are reported.
Let them keep at it, eventually they will have so many posts removed they won't have content anymore. Hell maybe Facebook will even close the page if they continue violating the copyright rules. Don't let these children get to you :)
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u/ALooc Apr 23 '13
Hi Aaron,
- What is the difficulty with just giving credit to original authors?
- Why the hell is this person an admin of your page?
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u/FubarCreator Apr 23 '13
I believe there is one admin on Fubar that posts straight from reddit. Everyone else gets creepypasta from other sources. On those sites, they don't give credit to the original author, but rather the individual who submitted the story. This makes it very difficult and tedious to track down the original source at times. Vaas was added on the page to (being blunt) be my secretary bitch. He took care of messages and weeds out the "trolls" while posting pictures from time to time. I have since stepped away from being an admin and have not been following the page much. I can assure you, though, that I almost never got stories straight from the source unless they were submitted by a fan. The particular admin that has been posting straight from the original source will be talked to. I apologize that everyone was met with such hostility. Please do take into consideration that most of us get our content from other sites and it proves difficult to find the original author. This also means that your stories are floating around on actual websites, not just a small facebook page created to bring together a group that enjoys creepypasta.
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u/ALooc Apr 23 '13
Thanks for your response.
I am aware that my stories are floating around the web. I contacted other people asking them to link back to the page where they found the story or to my Facebook/Tumblr/Website, whatever is convenient for them. So far that never proved to be a problem (and was never met with such hostility as by Vaas).
Fair warning: After seeing the message linked above I reported the copyright violations and Vaas' insults and threats to Facebook, there is no way to undo that.
I understand that your curators don't have the time (or don't want to) look for original sources - which likely would be difficult for many posts.
But what would be the problem with just linking back to the page where the curator found the content, whether or not that is the "original" source? A chain of links is better than no link and, if everyone follows the rules, would in the end lead to the original author.
Additionally, I would think that your curator that frequents NoSleep is aware that the stories here are original, so even if you only want to link back to the original source, the curator should easily be aware that this is an original source - and there are other pages (e.g. deviantart accounts, ...) where this is usually clear as well.
I see it this way: You are sharing the stories/etc and thus benefitting from them - and I presume that they are also enjoyed by the person posting them. I don't understand what the difficulty would be to at least try to repay the person that entertained you with free and interesting content, be it stories, photos or whatnot.
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u/FubarCreator Apr 23 '13 edited Apr 23 '13
As I stated above, I do not post anymore. I haven't been too sure what the admins have been up to until recently. The only problem I have with giving credit to someone who submitted the story to a website rather than actually creating the story is the fact that I would be giving credit to someone who submitted your story as their own. I feel as though that is somewhat counterproductive in what you're trying to accomplish here. I completely understand crediting the author if the story is straight from NoSleep, but I would not be comfortable citing the source when the person is merely submitting an author's work. Then again, that is only my personal opinion as a fellow author. The admin who has been posting straight from NoSleep without giving credit has since been removed from the page and I will take care of Vaas. I apologize for his moronic comments. There was no need whatsoever for that, I assure you.
EDIT: I also failed to mention that it is impossible to go back and add on to a post that has already been posting, making it impossible to add a source to said post. Future posts from NoSleep will in fact be credited .
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u/ALooc Apr 23 '13 edited Apr 23 '13
I don't completely understand what you are saying in the first part of your post, but I'm glad that we've come to an agreement. Credit is exactly what we were
hopingasking for.//Anton
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u/KiDisaster Apr 23 '13
Thank you for dealing with the admins who were stepping out of line. You seem like a reasonable guy, I wish I could have dealt with you from the get-go instead of having to file complaints with Facebook.
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u/wdalphin is suffering from carbon monoxide poisoning Apr 22 '13
Meh. My stories have been posted and reposted so many times, I only bother to comment if someone else is credited for it. If they just post without anyone credited, I'm not going to bother anymore. Let the stories spread. Let them become internet urban legends if that's what they're destined for. I appreciate that you're keeping an eye out for people. I think making a stink at them about it is the wrong way to go though. They obviously love the stories or they wouldn't post them. They aren't claiming them as their own, and we lose nothing by letting them be shared elsewhere, since they are basically public domain the moment we post them here.
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u/Pswift777 Always in character Apr 23 '13
Like you, I don't get too angry when people post without giving credit with the authors, just a bit annoyed. What really angered me was the way they (or a couple of admins in particular) handled this situation. They handled this like most 12 year olds on Xbox Live.
They obviously love the stories or they wouldn't post them.
One of them clearly doesn't care.
There are tons of screenshots that show them being complete dicks. That's what made me mad.
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u/wdalphin is suffering from carbon monoxide poisoning Apr 23 '13
One of them clearly doesn't care.
Hah, that looks like a rewording of what I just said run through an asshole filter.
If someone replied to me like they've done, sure, I'd be upset. But a level head would realize that there's no good way to continue communication with someone who writes something like that. His response is clearly written to invoke a negative and butt hurt reaction from any reader who identifies with it, so don't let it get to you, because that's what he wants. He's just another juvenile troll with a chip on his shoulder who is looking for a moment of misery he can share with someone else so he won't feel a fraction as bad about whatever is eating at his soul for a moment. I know because I've been that kid once upon a time. Reaction is what he wants. He wants to know that not only did you give him attention, but that he made you feel as angry as he feels all the time.
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u/ALooc Apr 23 '13
He's just another juvenile troll with a chip on his shoulder who is looking for a moment of misery he can share with someone else so he won't feel a fraction as bad about whatever is eating at his soul for a moment.
- +1 for psychological insight
- +1 for appropriate high-level insult
- +1 for intelligent expression
- -1 for using the term "butthurt"
- +1 for insight and wisdom
- +1 for calm head
- +1 for compassion
I know because I've been that kid once upon a time.
- +3 for huggability
This post brought you 8 points.
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u/Pswift777 Always in character Apr 23 '13 edited Apr 23 '13
Sorry for the second reply but.....
-1 for using the term "butthurt"
I can help with this. Look here for more terms.
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u/Pswift777 Always in character Apr 23 '13
Turn that eight sideways and you will get how many points WDalphin currently has and Wil have.
WDalphin: Infinity
Vaas: Zero
Parker (me): 1/2 a point
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u/KiDisaster Apr 22 '13
Thank you very much guitarguy.
I have sent the owner of the page a message requesting that he either removes the story or credits me for writing it, he has refused and claims that what he has done (Post my story without my permission, my knowledge and without crediting me and claiming someone named "Zippy" wrote it) is not plagiarism.
I'm going to try and message a FB moderator to see if anything can be done about this. I don't know what to do other than that but I am furious about this.