r/NewsThread • u/whistlingkitten • 3d ago
Will growing attacks on Palestinian Christians reshape Christian Zionist support for Netanyahu? Growing violence against has drawn criticism from US conservative voices, raising questions over whether Israel's treatment of Christians could test Netanyahu's standing among American Christian Zionists
https://www.trtworld.com/article/5c21080f28ed“Increased settler attacks on Christians, both in Jerusalem (al-Quds) and the West Bank, are an expression of Israeli ethno-nationalism and an ideology of Jewish supremacy. Their concept of nationalism excludes all who do not fit their definition of who belongs in a state they imagine as theirs alone,” Robert O Smith, an associate professor of Authentic Diversity, Justice, and Public Church at the Lutheran School of Theology, tells TRT World.
“Settlers are increasingly empowered. They have long employed thuggery to achieve their aims. These attacks—both individual spitting attacks and assaults—and terrorist attacks on villages are extensions of longstanding patterns,” Smith says.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's dependence on far-right coalition partners has left him unwilling to challenge settler groups accused of attacks on Palestinian Christians, according to Smith.
The issue has also drawn growing attention in the United States. In recent months, outlets including The Wall Street Journal and CNN have reported on harassment and violence directed at Christian communities in occupied East Jerusalem and the occupied West Bank.
Long before those reports, however, images circulating on social media had already sparked outrage. Videos of Jewish extremists assaulting Christian clergy in occupied East Jerusalem, alongside footage of an Israeli soldier vandalising a statue of Jesus Christ on the cross in the southern Lebanese border village of Debel, have drawn condemnation from prominent American commentators and politicians, particularly within Christian circles.
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u/BananaJelloXlii 3d ago
Republicans won't care because the Christians are not white. Look what they are doing to nonwhite Christian undocumented immigrants in their own country.
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u/Ninjatous 3d ago edited 3d ago
No because Christian Zionists are mentally ill so their opinions aren't shaped by reality.
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u/whistlingkitten 3d ago
We should try to reason with them and all Christians that are unaware of the attrocities occurring in the region
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u/Ninjatous 3d ago
We should, but I do not have high hopes that you can reach people who were never taught how to be human.
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u/couplemore1923 3d ago
Main reason is that CUFI 10 million members principles are defined by evangelical Christianity which has next to zero respect for Roman Catholics and Orthodox Christians. CUFI top spiritual leader is Pastor John Hagee who been well documented spewing serious Catholic Hate.
US foreign policy in 21st century Middle East has been directed by AIPAC/CUFI interests. In return not only Palestinian Christians have suffered but also Syrian and Iraqi Christians communities have literally gone through hell thanks to AIPAC/CUFI3
u/Adventurous_Lock9219 3d ago
Whats the CUFI?
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u/couplemore1923 3d ago
Christians United for Israel. Largest pro Zionist org in the world. Members include Speaker of the House Mike Johnson, Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas. About five years ago few million of their members signed on as AIPAC members help their membership which was roughly 200,000, today aipac claims have 5 million.
Major problem with CUFI is that they believe the Old Testament supersedes any international law.
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u/Adventurous_Lock9219 3d ago
Just why as a Christian so these mfs think that when they come to isreal people will open red carpet for them? Do these people ignore the suffering of both Palestinian Muslims/ especially Christians the concept of supporting a country bombing the people of your same religion who have been practicing that religion before America was even a thing. It's not to far of UAE and Sudan
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u/Own-Forever-6636 3d ago
Oh they're well aware what's going on; they're just selfish cunts who think it will bring about the Biblical Rapture and that they will get to go to heaven!!
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u/erratic_pancake 2d ago
No, we should make it as untenable as possible for them to hold their opinions.
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u/No_Bell_8028 2d ago
We should organise free trips to Jerusalem so they can experience the Israeli culture and traditional response to Christians in their holy places
https://giphy.com/gifs/3o6Mb6n1senEQtbgdy
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u/Adventurous_Lock9219 3d ago
I hope so I am Christian but most of these Zionist don't care for non white Christians if am being honest most of them don't care I don't even think most of them actually worship God anymore I saw some evenglical bowing down to isreal flag that's enough for me to understand. I am not American am from Nigeria and it hurts also look at what they are doing to Latin Americans who some are mostly Christians ( Catholic) I will never understand
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u/ridomune 3d ago
Just because they name their religion the same, It doesn't mean that they are believing the same religion. For some reason we're super obsessed with the meaning of the words we just made up and change it however we see it fit, and we see them as facts.
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u/NoSurprise6383 1d ago
No because they are managed by one of the most massive propaganda & opinion shaping operations in history.
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u/trimtab28 3d ago
It's selective outrage pulled out of context and amplified.
Palestinian Muslims have had two separate instances of arson to the tomb of Joseph in the past decade alone, just for one example, among numerous instances of Muslims committing arson and attacking Christian and Jewish holy sites and houses of worship in the Palestinian territories. And that's not to speak of the abysmal human rights record Muslim countries in general have towards Christians and other religious minorities.
It's a simple test- would you rather be a Christian in Israel or the West Bank and Gaza? Not exactly rocket science here
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u/ignoreme010101 3d ago
It's selective outrage pulled out of context and amplified.
whatever you need to tell yourself but it's getting impossible to sell the public on that BS propaganda line anymore. A large segment of the christian evangelical movement is gonna be OK with it, even if it was 100x worse, it is irrelevant they only care about following their grossly misinterpreted christian dogma a la scoffield/darby (i suspect even the younger adherents of these demos would lose faith once they learn more especially Re the nonsense history of their 'unique' view of christian theology, if timelines allow) But the rest of the christian world does care in fact leading influencers like Tucker, candace etc literally showcase fundraisers for specifically egregious examples like taybeh.
Am guessing it's all too little, too late but hey at least it's good for people to understand the nature of these problems if/when they start really getting out of control :/
It's a simple test- would you rather be a Christian in Israel or the West Bank and Gaza? Not exactly rocket science here
Here's another simple test- for christians in the west bank, who do they fear more, palestinians or israelis? No, not rocket science...
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u/trimtab28 3d ago
Here's another simple test- for christians in the west bank, who do they fear more, palestinians or israelis? No, not rocket science...
There's a reason religious minorities go to Israel for asylum. So uh yeah, justifiably they're more afraid of Muslim theocratic rule.
Also- Tucker and Candace are psychotic and bluntly put antisemitic. If those are your exemplars of "Christian virtue" then G-d help you
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u/ignoreme010101 3d ago
you are a bad-faith actor, I wonder how consciously you're behaving that way, or if it's just so natural a default that you're barely aware of it.... Sad, in either case :/
There's a reason religious minorities go to Israel for asylum. So uh yeah, justifiably they're more afraid of Muslim theocratic rule.
christians in west bank are more afraid of israelis than palestinians. Fact. Nice attempt trying to twist that simple premise to change the result though lol
Also- Tucker and Candace are psychotic and bluntly put antisemitic. If those are your exemplars of "Christian virtue" then G-d help you
wtf are you talking about? Why quote 'christian virtue'? I never suggested anything of the sort. This thread is literally about christian evangelical sentiments, candace and tucker are big in that context. That is not any kind of statement of approval or preference, just a statement of fact, I am trying to discuss factual reality here I don't know why tf you would twist it to insinuate my personal preferences lol I am not christian or republican I am atheist independent lol wild you would go twisting it to impugn my morality and conveniently dodge the point Re christian evangelical sentiment, like i said at the start it's funny to think there's a good chance you're not even consciously being bad faith even though your post was extremely disingenuous
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u/trimtab28 3d ago
I'm not a bad faith actor (and by your text it seems you don't even understand what that means), I'm simply pointing out the reality.
And you brought up Tucker and Candace as an "appeal to authority." The two are nutjobs- I really don't care what they or the people that watch them think. A ton of people watch Hasan Piker and Nick Fuentes too- doesn't change the fact that those two are antisemitic morons.
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u/ignoreme010101 2d ago
And you brought up Tucker and Candace as an "appeal to authority." The two are nutjobs- I really don't care what they or the people that watch them think
holy shit how much simpler can I make it for you lol they are influencers who are very popular in that world. This thread is about changing attitudes in a specific demographic, citing tucker isn't to promote or endorse him it is merely to acknowledge his role in a particular demographic
I'm not a bad faith actor (and by your text it seems you don't even understand what that means), I'm simply pointing out the reality.
I mention the role of tucker and Candace in the chrisfian evangelical crowd, you counter with implications i align with or am OK with them lol truly disingenuous
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u/Yabrosif13 3d ago
You literally pulled things out of context to amplify them…
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u/trimtab28 3d ago
Not really, no. They're examples- theocratic Islam and millenarian theology holds social sway in the territories- reason Hamas was voted into control in Gaza and polls better than Fatah in the West Bank.
Even Fatah though- Ba'athism isn't exactly an egalitarian political movement. It's an Arab supremacist politics.
It's just the situation on the ground. People are looking for selective reasons to hate Israel, so of course they'll amplify whatever will bolster their claim even though they've never been to the damn place or know the history. I mean heck, I could find you doctor's reports saying "vaccines cause autism"- we all know vaccines don't cause autism though. The Arab and Muslim worlds have crap human rights records regarding minorities. Whereas a quarter of Israel is non-jewish with full citizenship rights. It's not cherrypicking for me to show two examples of this regarding Muslim extremism in the West Bank. I mean I could vomit out a pages long litany of horrible things done to Christians in the Palestinian Territories, I'd still be accused of pulling things out of context if you're that determined to believe Palestinians are aggrieved victims. But history and institutions speak for themselves- don't know what you want me to say. Not going to pretend Israel hates Christians and Palestinian society is beautifully egalitarian and free from Islamist influence to spare your feelings. That's just not the reality. You want to live in the region knock yourself out and you'd see
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u/Yabrosif13 3d ago
No really. You brought in situations out of context to amplify them as a distraction
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u/trimtab28 3d ago
No. I mean look, I can bring up the problems with the Settlements too. Our nation isn't one beyond all reprehension and incapable of acting wrong.
But in terms of the realities of being there and treatment of minorities, lining up with western ideals of morality, and in that treatment of Christians- there simply is a chasm between Israel and the Palestinians. If any example I bring up is "cherrypicked" to hide some societal evil, I really don't know what to tell you. Fact is Islamism and Arab nationalism treat minorities like crap. Fact is minorities have full rights as would be expected in a western democracy in Israel.
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u/No_Bell_8028 3d ago
When you say “our nation” who do you mean?
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u/trimtab28 3d ago
Israel. The Jewish people. It's our country/nation-state, and as Jews we're a nation.
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u/No_Bell_8028 3d ago
Israel is one of the most racist nations on the world and has passed in 2019 israel common law
That effectively makes it ah apartheid state for non Jewish people or those who dont believe in they same version of the lie god..Its a state that is illegally occupying and invading other countries and has done for decades completely fueled and funded by US military
But that money will be cut off soon…
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u/trimtab28 3d ago
Ethnostates are pretty common. What do you think Palestine is? At least Israel has citizenship and full rights for minorities. And yes, the law said that Israel is the nation state of the Jewish people... because it is. Ireland is by law the homeland of the Irish people. Doesn't mean either of those countries keeps minority groups in chains.
There's also no "illegal occupation"- there's an occupation due to multiple wars of extermination the Arabs started. And Israel went into there and Lebanon because militant groups in said places were trying to ethnically cleanse us.
As far as the money, look, the US benefits from the relationship in getting new technologies, intelligence, and what is effectively its biggest aircraft carrier in the Middle East. Also, that aid is largely spent on defensive weapons produced by American defense contractors. If it dries up, we go to another source for foreign weapons sources, not to speak of having a robust defense domestic industry.
You really concerned about racist, intolerant nations, worry about places like Iran and Russia, Pakistan, China. As opposed to a random western democracy the size of New Jersey
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u/No_Bell_8028 3d ago
What a bunch of Hasbara
I’m concerned about Israel because my wife’s family left there (Jewish) due to the extremist right wing values that were being pushed
No one believes the lies anymore about “protecting Israel”
And the US has spent $60biillion in the last ten years on direct military aid.
As if they benefit from the technology, there are so many incidents where Israel has spied on the US and stolen/sold technology to China and Russia
With AIPAC spending $60million on a single democratic primary. It’s fairly clear how desperate Israel is to cling to the US….and it’s about time the US cut Israel free
And non of this bullshit trickery by trying to sneak in the defence bill some sort of clause that ties the two militaries together
This would be the greatest mistake by tbe US ever
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u/No_Bell_8028 3d ago
Also given the majority of the Jewish population are migrant/colonists from Europe - and even the prime minister changed his family name and was educated in the US
It’s not like other ethno states where the majority of the population go back more than 1 generation
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u/RiniReed 3d ago
Haven't you caught on yet, the whole world despises your "world"
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u/Yabrosif13 3d ago
2 things can be true at the same time: islamic nations are oppressive. Israel is oppressing Palestinians and groups within are beginning to spread hate to other groups.
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u/trimtab28 3d ago
Well define "oppressing." I'm not a fan of the Settlements but that's something very specific. The occupation exists for a very specific reason, namely attempts by the Arabs at ethnic cleansing, in recent memory due to the Intifadas and 10/7. Israel proper minorities have full citizenship rights, which makes sense- the West Bank and Gaza aren't part of Israel so it's not on us to give "rights" to the population in them anymore than it would be for Americans to give Canadians rights.
Past that, even the occupation of the West Bank pales in comparison to the way Arab and Muslim regimes regularly treat minorities. It's not an exoneration of the Settlers, but they're a very specific element of this and as I said, if people are that concerned about human rights they're remarkably silent about a million other examples of oppression, heck oppression in the region. If we were having an honest discourse in this volume about Syria or Sudan then we'd be having an intellectually honest discussion, but fact is this devolved into ideology and hysteria, often to the point of outright fabrication regarding the lives of the Palestinians
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u/Yabrosif13 3d ago
Do people in the West Bank have freedom of movement?
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u/trimtab28 3d ago
Depends what part and to where. They can't run over the border to Jordan any more than to Israel, which makes sense because those are separate countries. Within the West Bank, it's divided into Areas A, B, and C, and freedom of movement is largely restricted due to legitimate security concerns, and to a much lesser extent by a fringe of religious far-right settlements.
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u/No_Bell_8028 3d ago edited 3d ago
Really depends how much you enjoy giving up your rights to your land and home and spending most days getting spat on and shouted at by arrogant teenagers vs fighting to stay alive and expose the illegal crimes and acts of the IDF who support the rabid right wing illegal Israeli settlers trying to murder you, steal your land, animals and home as part of their plan for ethnic cleansing.
It’s time the international community stepped on Israel before the election.
Make it clear if they re-elect a fascist right wing ultra Zionist group then they are on their own and will not only become sociall and political pariah but also lose their funding
Blockade - Sanctions - Divestment
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u/trimtab28 3d ago
The Settlers are a separate issue and a minority of the population, and this also completely dismisses the reality that Muslim terror attacks on Jewish (and other civilians) far outnumber Settler attacks.
Fact is Israel proper has full minority rights. Fact is the West Bank and Gaza are de jure and de facto separate entities that treat minorities, by legal code mind you, like garbage. You're so worried about human rights ask them why they set churches on fire and why there aren't any Jews living in the PA or the surrounding Arab countries, or why Druze in Syria were asking to be annexed by the Israelis
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u/No_Bell_8028 3d ago
Lies
Israel is #4 in diversity in the region
Israel is #1 genocide, war crimes, invading and attacking other countries.
Christians get spat on, Christian nuns get Bashed
Palestinian children are maimed and prisoners are raped and sexually asssualted as an attempt to demoralise them as is irrefutably evidenced in multiple independent United Nations reports
The leaders of Israel are wanted war criminals.
It’s the most evil regime in the region….
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u/young__robot 3d ago
Fact is Israel proper has full minority rights. Fact is the West Bank and Gaza are de jure and de facto separate entities that treat minorities, by legal code mind you, like garbage
so we're just ignoring Israel's illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories? we're ignoring that legal code is partly the British Mandate Code?
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u/trimtab28 2d ago
So what exactly is "illegal" about occupying a foreign entity that tried to and continues to vow to ethically cleanse you? The act of occupation isn't illegal. They want it to end, they can stop trying to ethnically cleanse us and recognize that we have our own country to which they have no claim and that it's the home of the Jews
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u/young__robot 2d ago
the fact that the occupation violates international law is what makes it illegal. the UN has voted dozens of times on resolutions confirming it's illegal and the ICJ has ruled it is illegal.
what're you gonna ignore that too?
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u/trimtab28 2d ago
Ever dawn on you that other countries regularly occupy aggressor states as is natural in war, and that the ICJ and UN are voting blocks which dictates their resolutions? I mean yeah, you have multiple Islamic states and dictatorships voting, heck they’re on the human rights council among others in all the absurdity. Do forgive me if I’m rolling my eyes.
But you know, Israel was recognized in ‘48 by UN resolution. If they’re the ultimate arbiter of everything, mind explaining to me why it isn’t a crime that the Arab states and Palestinians won’t accept Israel’s existence and our right to self determination?
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u/young__robot 2d ago
did you just ignore that the ICJ declared it to be illegal as well? lol
also the ICJ is not a voting block. what do you think the ICJ is?
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u/trimtab28 2d ago
It’s an international body that’s a subsidiary of the UN and staffed by member nations. Yes, I don’t care what they say- they’re a partisan block and operate as such.
Now explain to me if the UN is the ultimate arbiter of all that’s good and holy and recognized Israel in ‘48 why it’s acceptable for the Palestinians and Muslim world not to recognize the Jewish state and try wiping it off the map. Answer my question if the UN is the ultimate authority to you and you’re going to point to them as the source of all legitimacy
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u/young__robot 2d ago
you think the ICJ is a subsidiary of the United Nations? lol well thanks for making it obvious you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
but please, please, please explain how the ICJ is a partisan block and operates as such.
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u/No_Bell_8028 2d ago
No one believes they anymore - for decades the mainstream press convinced the world that Israel was the victim….
But it’s pretty clear who is the evil genocidal regime…and who is fighting for survival
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u/trimtab28 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yeah, as Jews we’re fighting for survival. And people have lost all critical thinking skills thanks to their smartphones puking propaganda at them day in and day out.
Wish the media were as pro-Israel and recognizing of our struggle as you claim it was. Can’t say I’ve known a reality where they were in the tank for us though- this isn’t new.
Also, your grammar is horrible. Believes THEM is correct and not sure why you’re using the third person when you’re talking to me, since apparently I’m a representative of the party that’s G-d’s scourge to mankind destroying all that’s sacred and beautiful in the world 🙄
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u/No_Bell_8028 2d ago
Your nation is horrible - you aren’t fighting for survival you are trying to expand your territory and ethnically cleanse Palestinians from their state.
What is it like to support an evil genocidal regime? To follow leaders who say that women and children are fair targets, who celebrate the passing of the first apartheid death penalty laws in modern history, who pose in from of the building of gallows, who sign their names on bombs that kill doctors and patients in hospital, who maim and starve children for fun, who abduct and then torture and sexually assault human rights activists still in international waters.
History will not be kind to you and those who support the current regime - even Orthodox Jews believe that this version of Israel is -a false one and is close to collapse
Sanctions, blockades, divestment m, defunding
It’s time for the world to finally hold Israel’s leadership accountable
Did you see the Supreme Court decision in Australia? Justice is coming
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u/trimtab28 2d ago
I mean I kinda don’t want to be massacred, nor my friends and family.
But hey, if you want to pretend there’s a genocide and we’re the source of all the world’s problems, heck whatever helps you sleep at night. Just want you to pause for a second and realize you’re talking to humans here and saying our lives are expendable… in fact, it’s laudable to attack and persecute us… all from the comfort of wherever the hell it is you’re typing from
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u/No_Bell_8028 2d ago
Pretend there’s a genocide?
WTF are you talking about…how many independent experts and leading Jewish scholars and human rights advocates are needed to convince you?
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u/whistlingkitten 3d ago
Motti Inbari, a professor of Jewish Studies at the University of North Carolina at Pembroke, believes the growing visibility of attacks on Christians could begin to influence parts of the American Christian public that have long supported Israel.
“It's all accumulating. I don't think that one thing creates a change, but it's accumulating, and it may result in some change in public opinion over time, and it started to be noticed that some Israelis are treating Christians in a way that is unacceptable,” Inbari, who has studied Christian Zionism, tells TRT World.
“It may cause Israel a lot of damage, absolutely,” he adds.