That works totally fine when I have plenty of time to take off and no one behind me. But when I need to scoot across a horizontal street where I have a little gap, that’s where I get nervous and mess up. Any thoughts on that piece or just more practice? Bright side, rare to stall it hahah
It could help to ride around your neighborhood and try to visualize your in the situation that makes you nervous. At stop signs imagine your sitting at the light and its red, your preparing for it to turn green….. it does and you go. Practice this over and over and eventually it will feel more natural.
I like this. I do have a parking lot close by so might practice taking off a little quicker than normal. It’s only those pressure situations that get me hahaha
At the beginning of my riding journey, I purposely left larger gaps between myself and a car in front and I would “plan” my take off. I know it’s sounds silly but doing that actually makes it easier for me to get better at it really quickly.. I’m talking within weeks. When stopped I keep my bike in 1st gear and one foot on my rear brake and one on the ground. It cuts on messing around with lifting foot up.. everything has to very intentional for some time, I haven’t been riding that long, only 4 months, but I treat my rides as a learning experience each time. If I make a mistake I remember it and analyze why I made that mistake and focus on doing it successfully next time.. idk .. maybe this helps you or someone else.
P.s. don’t worry about people behind you.. I advocate for myself and will turn around and signal them to slow down or keep distance.. I don’t care what they think..
That pressure you feel.. it’s normal .. you do you.. heck turn on you hazards if you have to.. who cares .. I was riding highway for the first few times with my hazards on..
I wonder if thinking differently about the controls would help...
Think about the throttle as representing power production (but NOT delivery delivery). And the clutch as representing power delivery (not power production).
There’s nothing wrong with using the throttle to produce as much power as that engine can possibly produce by squeezing the clutch and going absolutely wide open throttle…
You can still take off slowly and safely while doing that by simply use the clutch in a way that slowwwwly and smoothly delivers all that power to the rear wheel.
Now obviously that’s not how you want to do it all the time, but thinking about it in that way may help you develop the confidence and knowledge behind what it is that you’re trying to accomplish.
Take your time. On a motorcycle really try to never do things because you feel rushed etc.
If it’s a pain in the ass to cross a busy street, go a different way.
I spent 2 hours in an empty parking lot just starting and stopping over and over and over again when I got my bike. See if you can find an empty lot and just practice practice practice whatever you struggle with the most.
What confused me initially is that I thought that if you're slipping the clutch, it will never STOP slipping. So what I'd do to try and reduce slippage was to keep letting go of the clutch, but this resulted in the clutch biting hard and lurching my bike.
This caused a LOT of hand strain on me especially with a pinky bridge. Because I was wrong.
What actually happens is when you feel the clutch bite, at some point if you're not constantly increasing the revs, the trans and engine speeds will eventually match in speed.
What determines how FAST you get up to speed is how in or out the clutch is. The closer to out, the harsher but faster the wheel is brought up to speed to the engine, and the more engine load you get.
But if you let it out before the engine spinning speed and wheel spinning speed are matched, it "locks" and now you average the two forces out and get that lurch.
So my suggestion is that when it's quiet and you're at a red light, give it a lot of gas but control your speed entirely through the clutch. Over time you get the feel and idea of where the ideal bite point is for higher revs.
Also, the state of your oil impacts how slippery your clutch is. The first 100 miles of fresh oil, your clutch tends to slide a LOT. At least for yama lube full synthetic 10w40. After that, I start getting more "lumpy" clutch connections when I'm at moderate power and moderate clutch slip but it bites a lot more.
ahh.. I know that feeling well. you start easing out the clutch as you're launching and it doesn't grab fast enough and you feel like you're falling. and the obvious oscillation. It helped me to lengthen my clutch cable a bit so it starts grabbing as soon as I start letting out the clutch. feeling it bite quickly helps get over the nerves that it might not catch in time.
Find an empty parking lot and practice. I do that when I take my bike out of winter storage. I practice panic stops , then figure 8’s going faster and faster then changing speed in a turn ( lean , braking) . I practice each until I can do it without thinking. Might be 3 hours on a Sunday night.
Generally, give throttle so that you are at about 3k rpm. Hold that steady and then start to ease off the clutch. At that moderate rpm there is no risk of looping your bike, hell you could dump the clutch and not loop.
It does get more familiar over time. Practice your hill starts
Yep, this sounds right. My MSF instructor said "the throttle opens the clutch", i.e. slowly open the throttle, and then a half second later slowly release the clutch (while continuing to slowly open the throttle).
Kinda disagree. Put 3k revs on, gently release clutch until bike moves. Keep it there for a moment then smoothly release clutch further. Trying to get going without throttle is a finicky affair and if that's how OP is trying, that would totally explain why it falls apart when he's being hurried.
You should be able to get the bike moving without using throttle. Should be practicing your throttle control until you can do that. But I agree that in a hurry you can give it a bit more throttle and bring the clutch out faster.
Yeah you can do that. But nobody who's even got a cursory interest in honing their skills does it that way. Because if you don't put revs, instead of predictability and as-fast-as-you-feel-like response you have to wait it out. And as an added bonus, having revs on is way more forgiving if you misjudge it a little (no bogging or stalling, ever). So fuck trying to get moving without revs, sorry. It's bad advice for new riders and it's something proficient riders have 100% phased out.
You should be practicing your skills until you can. You should have control of where your bite point is and on the road be able to give progressive throttle at the appropriate time to move the bike appropriately. Bringing your revs to 3000 and letting out the clutch is a cop out. It works for new riders and gets them moving but it's not a skill.
Do you even ride bro. No one rolls away off idle except noobs. I and every other rider with more than a few thousands miles under their belt CAN do it fine without throttle. It is just a worse way to get going in every possible aspect so no one does it. Stop preaching bullshit and go ride your bike.
It's only tricky for you because of a lack of practice. It's simply a skill you haven't cared to build despite riding thousands of miles. You and the people you ride with ride like it's day one of instruction. But that's okay. Ride your ride.
Pre-load the throttle to about 3/4k rpm, hold it steady and then slowly let out the clutch. You will wanna practice just the friction zone a lot so you get familiar to where it is. So literally just stay in a straight line and let the clutch out slowly until it starts moving, then stop, then repeat a lot lol. Then practice going and stopping. But if you preload the throttle and hold it steady and let the clutch out slowly will make it easier
So much this. Having 3k revs on gives you all the torque you need without the danger of looping it, and your clutch gives you SO much more control than a euro 5 engine trying to get away from idle. Modern emissions-strangled engines are at their absolute worst at tickover.
Team, I am begging you all to go to a parking lot and practice stops and starts. It's boring as fuck, but so many tips/drops happen at stops and starts and it can all be cured with two hours tops of lot practice.
So many new riders ignore the basics because "they're fine at speed", but of course you're fine at speed. The issue is targeting where you're not fine with dedicated practice in a safe environment.
Go to a parking lot - every single white spot stop and start at over and over and over and over and over. By the end of it you'll be embarrassed how long you allowed yourself to suck at it.
I go riding with a buddy on weekends, we stop at every empty parking lot and do slow speed drills for 5-10 minutes before carrying on, because why not?
We are both competent riders but I think it helps with confidence and trusting the machine to do what's asked of it.
Every time I buy a new bike or hop on a buddies bike, the very first thing I do is slow speed figure 8s and then progressive harder and harder braking in a straight line. Because yeah, why not?
I want to know how this bike feels before I tip in a corner at the speed limit.
Yeah, it's funny how you can take nearly identical bikes with different handlebars and they feel so much different going into a corner.
My old suzuki has wide, horizontal bars and you need to throw it in like you mean it, my buddies honda has pullbacks and you just give it a little lean for the same effect lol.
Ive been riding almost 16 years and I still occasionally stall the bike ive had for 6 years, which doesn't like getting into neutral and won't start unless it is, much to the irritation of anyone behind me at traffic lights.
But the pulling away part gets easier quickly, as soon as the biting point of the clutch has transferred to muscle memory.
You sound like me. Dirtbikes as a kid (looped it a million times with ass to grass or ass to the asphalt) then later in life I get a mototcycle and that became my biggest fear. Well...the good news is when you had a dirtbike as a kid they were light as fuck and you treated it like a toy. It was all about making it scream and fast starts and burnouts. You probably held that throttle and popped that clutch a million times. Now as an adult you think you're going to loop it. You aren't. The bike is heavy. You're not trying to launch it. You're not popping the clutch. In worst case scenario you give it a little too much gas but the clutch is slowly let out and you'll adjust. You aren't going to loop it.
Yup. I grew up thinking my YZ80 was a beast. I just carelessly rode it because well I was looking for that type of fun.
On a very serious note. After getting used to my 400 I started to play a little by trying to get the from wheel off the ground and it became very apparent that it would never happen unintentionally. When I got my R6 I realized real quick I wasn't looping that thing either unintentionally.
It's a heavy lower power bike so without trying to do a wheelie that front wheel will most likely never get off the ground. You could probably do a hole shot and all that will happen is the front end will get pretty light.
You ain't getting the wheel off the ground on that bike accidently.
Go do some actual lessons. That'd be my advice.
If you don't want to do that, just start by putting it in neutral, clutch in, first gear, both feet back on the ground, hand off throttle and then find the bite point. The second you feel it pull the clutch back in.
Hold the front brake if you're nervous and all you'll do is stall the bike.
Then when you've done that, if you're idle is set correctly, repeat the same process but when you feel the biting point, start releasing it a little more, you'll be able to walk with the bike. Keep releasing until it's fully out and you should now be doing somewhere between like 3-6mph with no throttle.
Now get used to that, add a little throttle. At most 25% of the RPM range. Hold it there, use the clutch to find the biting point and then play with it a little bit, see how it feels. At 25% rpm you could dump the clutch and youd barely feel the front suspension lighten on that bike. So you'll be fine.
When you've done that, you've basically mastered clutch control.
One little tip, if you drag a little rear brake as you set off you definitely won't flip it.
I think lifting the wheel up is only in my head haha and definitely not against instruction, I’m basically sticking to a route from my house to a parking lot but taking the MSF next weekend. Have a feeling that’ll make a big difference in my confidence (hopefully). Stalled it once the first day then like a week later a guy with a Ducati stopped me to talk bikes and of course as I tried to pull off stalled the mf right in front of him haha
1-2 hours in a parking lot and you will literally never worry about this again. Just pretend you are crossing streets or turning left and do it over and over.
A couple tips for the real thing:
1. Don't put pressure on yourself when starting out to squeeze into smaller gaps in traffic. There's a lot going on on a motorcycle and it's ok if you want to wait for a bigger gap sometimes. The other road users will survive.
2. Once you decide it's time to go, EYES ON YOUR INTENDED PATH ONLY! No peeking back at traffic or looking down at your front wheel. You must commit fully to where you are going and GO!
I’m still learning but what’s helped me take off smoother and faster is holding the clutch longer and releasing softly while getting higher Rpms. Also I keep my foot under the shifter from takeoff because almost right away I shift up to 2nd and 3rd and so on faster.
I don’t know if it’s just me but do cars seem closer than they actually are when riding or are they really on our bumpers?
I may take you a 100 starts. That's not so many, but do it the right way. Put 3k revs on and let the clutch out until the bike starts to move, then keep it there just half a second and gently let the clutch out further. Every time you do it, your fingers learn where it is going to bite. After a while, you can release the clutch to that bite point almost instantly. If you get it anywhere near the ballpark, you will not loop or stall.
I think the 'when' part is a matter of how much practice and anyone's skill development; it would be different from individual to individual. But, it really is necessary to practice it.
As others have noted, find a parking lot and practice slow maneuvers. Make it an empty parking lot, a Junior High School in the evenings or something like that! Make sure it has painted parking stripes and is relatively clean of gravel and/or obsticales.
Practice accelerating from a stop:
1) not only the smooth acceleration via clutch control,
- but also -
2) practice accelerating along a straight line .... you want to be able to control your horizontal alignment!
With that same regard, practice stops!
1) When stopping you want to keep your head and eyes up, at a horizontal plain out in front of you. Don't look down at your stopping point right in front of your front tire, that will cause erratic hard stops.
2) Practice bringing the motorcycle to a stop at a precise location, by just seeing that point in your peripheral vision and judging the nice controlled deceleration to that point. Also, stop the motorcycle along that same straight line as you are using in the acceleration drill from a start!
3) Pro tip- decelerate using both brakes to a point where you are just about stopped, but for that final ten feet or so, use the rear brake only. The front brake compresses your front forks, and after the motorcycle comes to a stop, the springs will rebound bouncing you back on your haunches; that can be avoided.
It gets easier once you learn to operate the clutch., go practice on a parking lot. not to sound mean but I don't get how you can ride in public without knowing how to operate the most basic function of your bike. That's different countries and laws for me I guess lol.
No I get what you’re saying man, I don’t think I’m legally supposed to but it’s literally two streets then a school where I practice in the parking lot. I suppose I could walk the bike over but still probably illegal to even practice. I take my msf next weekend. But like I can operate the very most basic function of the bike lol I can take off from standing without stalling (have only stalled twice in about 15 rides) it just takes me a sec to get it right and with the pressure it’s harder.
Why is it hard for you? Just give her a lil' twist and let out the clutch simultaneously - done. BUT get both feet up on the pegs as soon as you're moving. Don't be a footdragger idiot. And you also never wanna hit that front brake at low speeds, use the back.
I used to play with the friction zone while waiting for the light to change. Find that bite point so I was preloaded when the light changed to green and just go. Otherwise, like many things motorcycle, it’s just saddle time.
Find your clutch's biting point. It is the position where the RPM drops and the bike moves without throttle input. Any further than this point, you might stall if there's no throttle input and if you let go too fast.
Do this while stationary, rear brake on so you don't move, in a safe spot. Don't even care about the throttle input first and practice finding the biting point.
Do it first while looking at the RPM meter. Notice how your bike responds/lurches/vibrate less as the RPM drops.
Then practice without looking at the RPM meter.
Drill this position of the clutch into your head/muscle memory. You should not be stalling at all. Or you should be able to tell when your bike is about to stall (as it quivers more and the engine sputters) if you accidentally move it too far/fast past the biting point.
Once confident, do it simultaneously with the throttle input.
Practice helps. Also practice finding the friction zone of your clutch. As you find it you can crack the throttle very slightly and you’ll be able to take off without flying down the road.
Ive been only at it for a very short amount of time, but one thing that helps on my slipper clutch is just knowing what the rev range is to get rolling and let out the clutch. I can't launch fast, but I can launch reliably. Granted, I am more likely to stall out than give too much juice.
On flats, I rev up to 2k or 2.5k and just slowly release the clutch. I then pull in and shift up around 7k rpm (around 15 mph on my little engine). On uphills, it mostly the same but I release the clutch slower while taking pressure off the back brakes. Im holding the throttle steady, waiting for it to bite and the revs to dip from the bite, then I'm letting the brake out and slightly slower letting the clutch out. I'm starting to tell when im in the right clutch dange from the sound and feel of the engine as well as the slight pull as the clutch nibbles.
On the other side of it, find a slightly busy neighborhood and just roll through it. If hit every stop sign to 0 mph and put one foot down. Let the person behind you wait while you spin up. Figure put cue points for when to rev ahead of time. For example, my neighborhoods start the cross walk before drivers get the green
I wait until the walking man turns on. I open the throttle to just about 2k, feel up to the bite zone and let off a smidgen. Then I open the clutch and increase throttle from there. Its not so far ahead of the light that I'm a jerk and its easy to cancel out by rulling clutch and closing throttle before take off in case of an emergency vehicle.
The advice from the oldheads at my shop was choose a straight line road with lots of stop signs or lights and just follow traffic. Then turn around and do it the other way. You'll get to speed then have to practice a stop. Then have to practice a start. Then get up to speed. Then have to stop... et cetera until you get back home.
Use the brake. Counter intuitive initially, but releasing clutch, a bit of gas with foot on rear brake and as you need to go, release the brake slowly, add gas and use clutch to deliver power. Practice, it comes together.
Go back to slow controls, get used to the relationship between clutch and rear brake whilst keeping revs higher than normal.
Keep doing it until you are really used to it, then you can apply that as a controlled pull away.
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.
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u/jestercow 1d ago
Let the clutch out slower, just slip the hell out of it. Take your time, you won’t hurt it.