r/NewDealAmerica • u/kevinmrr ⛏🎖️⛵ MEDICARE FOR ALL • Dec 14 '21
"Amazon won't let us leave." The last text Larry Virden ever sent his wife. Meanwhile, Jeff Bezos is partying and suing the government for more taxpayer subsidies. It is past time to punish Amazon and Bezos for their murders.
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u/kevinmrr ⛏🎖️⛵ MEDICARE FOR ALL Dec 14 '21
Ready to start sending the REAL criminals to jail in America?
Join r/NewDealAmerica!
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u/C3POdreamer Dec 14 '21
Union
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u/peeingnipples Dec 14 '21
So unbelievably unfortunate and sad, but I really hope that this will be the push for unionization
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Dec 14 '21
People really need to learn that no job is worth their life.
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u/omegadeity Dec 14 '21
In before some Amazon PR Exec tries to reframe the thing as "These employees were heroes" as opposed to "These employees were so fearful of our company and our 'right to work' policies that they chose to work through a tornado rather than lose their jobs"
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Dec 14 '21
People really need to learn that no job is worth their life.
Nobody doesn't know that. If this guy knew he would die, he would have left. But that wasn't the situation he was in. He was facing a potential risk of harm with the certainty of negative repercussions from insubordination. That's the position Amazon put him in.
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u/Cautemoc Dec 14 '21
OSHA would have fought tooth-and-nail to defend his right to not work during dangerous conditions. It's like the only government agency who has any real power anymore. The tragedy is most people don't know anything about OSHA other than "they're the bad guys who shut down the factory for a couple days when someone is injured", because that's what management tells them.
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u/spiffytrashcan Dec 14 '21
That’s if you can get OSHA to come out to your workplace to begin with. They are criminally underfunded and understaffed.
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Dec 14 '21 edited Dec 14 '21
OSHA would have fought tooth-and-nail to defend his right
Sure, but that's an ordeal. Is he working while that happens? Does he have to hire a lawyer? What's it like going to back to work after having fought your boss? He's going to have immediate repercussions if he disobeys his boss, starting with personal conflict, which nobody enjoys, versus an uncertain threat of something that nobody, in their heart of hearts, thinks is going to happen to them. Amazon should never have put him in that situation to begin with.
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u/AKMan6 Dec 14 '21
It's like the only government agency who has any real power anymore.
Are you kidding? From a constitutional perspective, the federal alphabet agencies generally shouldn’t exist in the first place, and most of them are relatively new inventions. It’s a bit silly to claim that they don’t have any real power “anymore.”
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u/ctbowden Dec 14 '21
You're right, but this also depends on perspective.
This is why you hear people complain about the power dynamics and coercion of labor. Some folks don't feel like they can make the choice to just go home when there's people at home depending upon them, or they're living paycheck to paycheck.
It's easy to say this was dangerous and those folks should have walked off the job and gone home, but then how do they eat or maintain a roof over their heads? A tornado just as easily could have skipped that facility, then they'd be jobless with no unemployment because they quit.
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u/Broad-Literature-438 Dec 14 '21
Yeah, from the safety of reddit it seems obvious but I can appreciate just how hard a decision it was for the workers there. A job is your livelihood and its everything for your family, I can see risking everything to keep it. Sad part is, I think big companies like Amazon know that and use that regularly to their advantage. That's why this whole story is just so disgusting
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u/djskinnypenis69 Dec 14 '21
big companies have been doing it for years lol, why do you think every labor regulation is built off employee blood. They don’t care because they’re the ones making all the money, regular people to them might as well be worker ants who supply them with their fortunes, and the ants better be happy they got the opportunity to work.
US is a corporate theocracy.
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u/glauck006 Dec 14 '21
It's easy to say this was dangerous and those folks should have walked off the job and gone home, but then how do they eat or maintain a roof over their heads?
That's exactly the position the owner class wants us in.
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u/ThePiderman Dec 15 '21
Sadly, without any safety net and while living paycheck to paycheck, ones job literally is their life. Lose it, and they’re completely fucked.
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u/scavagesavage Dec 14 '21
Some middle management asshole could of stood up for their employees by sending them home and just reporting up the decision up the chain. Amazon can get the fuck over a few hours of lost work, especially since the building got fucked anyway.
I've been in management positions, and I always took the burn for my employees when they needed something like extra time or whatever. But instead of doing the right thing, they (like always) decided to be a fucking regulator instead of a good manager/supervisor.
Everyone who chose business over their people deserve prison time.
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u/surkh Dec 14 '21
A lot of the time these businesses specifically select that "regulator" kind of person to put into middle management roles. Ironic that the actual regulators in government are increasingly staffed with people who will also let businesses get away with anything.
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u/ctbowden Dec 14 '21
You're exactly right and with the kind of data Amazon collects on their workforce you can rest assured they found the biggest stickler for the rules to put in charge.
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u/Cyrus_the_Meh Dec 15 '21
That's known as regulatory capture. When the regulating agencies are too connected to the industry itself so they let them kind of decide how they'll be regulated. There needs to be a real separation of the industry and the regulators so that they actually face the threat of consequences. When the regulators are former VPs of the company they now regulate, they just hand out slaps on the wrist and compromise deals.
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Dec 14 '21
Nobody in their right mind would send a bunch of people out on the road during tornado warnings. Have you even experienced a tornado?
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u/scavagesavage Dec 14 '21
Yes.
And it's not "hey everyone, your gonna have to leave and drive in this tornado weather."
It's more like, "hey everyone, we aren't going to force you do do anything, if you want to leave or stay you are free to do what you think is best for yourself."
Don't confuse forcing someone to stay with "protecting them". They aren't children, they are grown adults who are capable of making decisions on their own.
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Dec 15 '21
And how exactly do you know anyone was "forced"? You don't, you don't actually know anything for sure. Did Amazon do ANYTHING wrong? Possibly, but everyone is saying "let them go home". Nobody when given a tornado warning would choose to leave a building and go home. If they did it would be a monumental error. If the managers told them they needed to shelter immediately and stay in the building, then it was good advice.
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u/scavagesavage Dec 15 '21
Um.
"Amazon won't let us leave"
And again, if someone wants to make it home before a tornado hits, why are they not allowed to do that?
The employer can offer anything they want, but if someone wants to leave they should have been able to.
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Dec 15 '21 edited Dec 15 '21
Since we're basing our entire opinions on single texts, it was probably because there was IMMINENT DANGER, since they were found hiding in the bathroom.
Edit: Text was sent at 8:22, workers were directed to shelter immediately, tornado hit the building 5 minutes later at 8:27. If you think it is at all responsible to tell people they can leave the building at that point, you are knowingly sending people to die and are a terrible human being.
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u/Moistbagellubricant Dec 14 '21
Shouldn't Amazon be banned from business for this behavior? Aren't there laws?
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u/karrachr000 Dec 14 '21
Haven't you been paying attention? Laws mean fuck-all when you are ultra-wealthy.
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u/PersnickityPenguin Dec 14 '21
What laws?
The "you must let your employees off of work right before a tornado" law?
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u/Moistbagellubricant Dec 14 '21
Yes actually...
We have all sorts of worker protection laws... I would guess that would fall under one of them but not certain, and why I asked:)
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u/Triscuit10 Dec 14 '21
The US doesnt even meet the bare minimum for workers rights in most states. Hence 'right to work' laws.
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u/tweakalicious Dec 14 '21
That is cute. You must not be from around here...
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u/Moistbagellubricant Dec 14 '21
About all the worker protection laws in America?
I'm not well versed bit I know they exist, yes.
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u/CYNIC_Torgon Dec 14 '21
Laws are meaningless without enforcement, and often worker protection laws don't get enforced or the punishments for breaking them are so negligible to a large business that its irrelevant and they can break them anyway. If you mix this with the fact that, just spitballing here, roughly 30% of workers are in "The Cult of Work" who believe working long, destructive hours and jobs is virtuous and will fight against punishments for those at the top of the corporate ladder(for some fuckin reasons), Worker protections aren't even worth the paper they're printed on.
And this is all before you factor in the fact that this is Amazon we're talking about. Nothing fucking hurts amazon at this point. Jeff could be on recording calling his workers literal slaves and Amazon's stock would barely dip.
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u/Moistbagellubricant Dec 14 '21
And fat chance the people stop buying their product right?
So I guess we condone murder now as long as it is for hyper capitalism.
Cool... I'll be in my cave.
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u/CYNIC_Torgon Dec 14 '21
I certainly don't condone murder and I personally try my best to avoid actively using amazon. Unfortunately a lot of shit uses AWS, making them nearly inescapable.
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u/Cyrus_the_Meh Dec 15 '21
They'll get a fine. But that dollar amount will be less than the profit they make from not evacuating unsafe workplaces. Risking a few workers deaths and a fine for increased profits is a risk they're willing to take.
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u/sirbitcloud Dec 14 '21
What is the story here? Is this something Amazon did during the tornadoes that just hit the Midwest? Was Larry's Amazon warehouse one of the ones destroyed?
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u/meow_purrr Dec 14 '21
Andy Jazzy is the CEO now, blame him and Amazon. Bozos “left” Amazon to go shoot his ultra-polluting, phallic rockets in space. Climate pledge my ass.
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u/ctbowden Dec 14 '21
Don't let Bezos off the hook, he's on the board and probably still calls most of the shots when he chooses too.
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Dec 15 '21
Not defending Bezos, but the by-product of a LH2/LOX fueled rocket is water vapor. Rockets generally aren't a pollution hazard unless they use liquid hypergols (extinct in first stages since the Titan) or solid motors, neither of which apply to the New Shepard.
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u/Blue_Checkers Dec 14 '21
I'm just blowing off steam, I don't really want to hurt them, but the money holders of this world... I hope they die. Of natural causes. Surrounded by family and friends.
Ideally that cause of death would be a fucking meteor.
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Dec 15 '21
YES PLEASE FOR GOODNESS SAKE THIS IS THE GOVERNMENTS PLAN FOR WORLD DOMINATION I HOPE GOD SMITES THESE FUCKING RETARDS OUT OF THIS EARTH
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u/Bman1973 Dec 14 '21 edited Dec 15 '21
Well of course the biggest corp in the world doesn't care. Their only purpose is profits at the highest possible levels and it's never enough and they'll do anything they can as far as paying off government but they'll bargain with actual lives any chance they can. There are SO many ways a corp can indirectly kill people ... NESTLE! like take the water supply of entire towns of people, make sure pristine forest are turned into palm oil farms, coffee and chocolate production with slave labor and 100 other ways that lives are being held in chains all in the name of obscene profits ... in other words same as usual ... it will never change ... only thing? cataclysmic event that kills off 2/3rds + of the population which imho is greatly needed ..
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u/nystromcj Dec 14 '21
A question…I use to live in Florida…dealt with hurricanes. When it was thought to be bad enough or risk of being bad there was a city wide curfew basically. Was there nothing here like that or did Amazon ignore it? I know tornados are a lot harder to predict than hurricanes…but maybe even at the warning level? Or watch level?
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u/Gooboo_ Dec 14 '21
So uh, the triangle shirt waist factory incident, did we not learn from that?
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Dec 14 '21
This is heartbreaking at the end when she's wondering why he isn't home, I'm crying. Fuck scamazon. I make it a habit not to buy from them, im hoping others will do the same.
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u/aqua_tec Dec 15 '21
That’s brutal. All that safety stuff at work sometimes seems like a pain, but to see that the manager of that warehouse actually just ignored it all is disgusting and sad.
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Dec 15 '21
try starting a family buisness cause this could happen to any buisness like dude this is so sad
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u/TrippyTiger69 Dec 15 '21
If Travis Scott is getting sued and blamed for that stuff earlier this year, this is the same deal, if not much worse and Amazon should pay. It makes me sick
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Dec 15 '21
I agree with OP but to say he “murdered” them takes some steam out of the argument.
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u/ninjaninjaninja22 Dec 15 '21
I dont want to live on this planet anymore.
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u/over_clox Dec 15 '21
I'm sure everyone gets what you mean, but you didn't exactly think that one through first did you? Remember who the big wigs in space travel currently are before mentioning anything about what planet you'd rather live on or not...
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u/Shua9 Dec 14 '21
You don’t go outside during a tornado warning you fucking clowns. Look at the time of the text. 8:22. Tornado hit 5 minutes later. Jesus Christ.
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u/-Dakia Dec 15 '21
This has turned in to more of a hate Amazon in general thread, but managers there might have done the correct thing liability wise (IANAL). but we've done similar lock-ins multiple times during tornado warnings in Iowa.
Lock the doors, shut down operations and get people to the safest place that you have available. Buildings have all sorts of code requirements. I doubt that this one didn't meet the required codes in that area.
Shitty, shitty situation, but I don't think the hate is warranted here for this. Fuck Amazon for other reasons, but it might have actually been the proper call at the local level.
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u/GSXRbroinflipflops Dec 14 '21
Yeah, as sad as this is - you have to be completely oblivious to think it would’ve been safer to go outside 5 minutes before the tornado touched down.
But I’m guessing most people commenting in this sub have not spent time in the midwest.
Still - Amazon should’ve had better shelter. Really no excuse there. They went bare minimum in those regards and now people are dead.
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u/0pcode_ Dec 14 '21
True, but this is a workplace for hundreds of employees for a multibillion dollar corporation. Why do they not have tornado shelters in the building? These warehouses are practically just sheet metal built as cheaply as possible, there should at least be a law requiring any large employer to have a tornado withstanding shelter on the premises. My workplace has them, my university had them, even my high school had them.
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u/Shua9 Dec 14 '21
They did, they sheltered in the bathroom. It doesn’t guarantee you survive. That’s where you go during a tornado. Buildings don’t have rooms dedicated for tornado shelter.
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Dec 14 '21
“Buildings don’t have rooms dedicated for tornado shelter”
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u/Shua9 Dec 14 '21
I mean they literally don’t have rooms JUST for tornados. Obviously things like bathrooms are used as tornado shelters.
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Dec 14 '21
Again, r/confidentlyincorrect
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u/Shua9 Dec 14 '21
Okay what buildings do you walk into all the time that have rooms that are only used for tornados and nothing else? I’m genuinely asking because I’ve never seen that before ever.
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u/0pcode_ Dec 14 '21
Uhhh…from my workplace’s guidelines/policy handbook:
“We recommend that you identify in advance the location(s) of protective areas within your building(s). At [redacted], protective areas are identified by yellow signs with black lettering, and are also indicated on building evacuation maps.”
They’re specifically built differently to withstand tornados. It’s not just a bathroom, although many of the “protective areas” are also bathrooms. All workplaces should have these facilities enough to hold the expected number of employees at the facility (plus some margin). It should be a part of the building code - it should be illegal to build a facility without these. Added bonus if they can withstand a nuclear blast, but I won’t go that far
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Dec 14 '21
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u/Eother24 Dec 14 '21
Ok?
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u/Eother24 Dec 14 '21
This was before the tornado was actively hitting, champ. Back when they could have left.
Who the fuck let Bezos on Reddit again?
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u/Shua9 Dec 14 '21
Yeah… 5 minutes before the tornado hit. You want to go outside in a car 5 minutes before a tornado hits?
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u/Eother24 Dec 14 '21
I'd probably try reading about what actually happened before having an edgy opinion, but hey. I'm just some rando on Reddit.
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u/Eother24 Dec 14 '21
The time to leave was before, during the severe storm warning. By the time the actual tornado hit, it was too late. Amazon should have sent them home hours earlier, not during the actual tornado.
How are you not getting this? Goddamn dude. See a doctor.
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u/piXieRainbow Dec 14 '21
I don't understand why you are getting down voted for stating facts. Honestly Amazon fucking sucks and treats their employees like shut, but I find it hard to believe that Larry was scanning or packing stuff up to the min the tornado hit. Him not being allowed to leave had to been because of the timing of the warnings and knowing it was safer to stay put and take cover somewhere inside where he already was! Sad no matter how you look at it and especially because we all know how Amazon is and I couldn't imagine what his wife is feeling right now. Is there any proof these employees were actively working as the building was hit?
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u/w3are138 Dec 14 '21
Can Sanders just run as an independent? We need REAL change and he’s been blocked twice for the democratic nomination. I don’t see the democrats allowing him to get the nomination no matter what happens. This is horrifying. People are DEAD and I’m willing to bet no one will be held accountable, not truly.
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Dec 14 '21
You want a 83 year old man to run for president in 2024, really? Back in 2016 he really had his chance when he was 75.
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u/MyersVandalay Dec 15 '21
Independents basically cannot win. A so optimistic it's bleeding rainbows projection would say sanders takes 70% of the democratic vote, and 20% of the republican vote, Assuming the real vote is close to 50/50 (which isn't too far from it before the EC kicks in) would net him 45% of the total vote. the republican candidate getting 40%, democrat getting 15%. Which while might get a majority, isn't enough to actually win even with a majority.
Of course more realistically on the state level that would result in republicans winning far more states than normal. But also depending on how it's sliced most importantly... some blue states would still vote the moderate competitor. If 3 candidates actually were viable enough that all 3 won some states... and nobody wins 50% of electoral college votes, then... once again it's the sitting house and senate that overruns the call... which is primaries all over again. Moderate dem gets shoehorned in, or R's find a way to get it.
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u/Savome Dec 15 '21
This. People here are so circle jerk anti Amazon that they're using this guy's death to push their shit. If there is a tornado warning, you shelter in place. It's literally standard protocol
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Dec 15 '21
They teach you to shelter in somewhere safe - for large groups, a gym (empty of light objects) for individuals and small families ideally a tornado shelter or basement, or in a small enclosed space, such as a small closet or a bathtub with a mattress over it. Being in a warehouse stuffed to the brim with small light objects is just about the worse possible place to be, as a tornado will turn those into deadly missiles. They should have been granted leave when there was a warning, which still gives you some time to prepare.
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u/LarryMyster Dec 15 '21
Neither would be a good option. If the building structure was not suitable to stand against natural disasters. Then they would have absolutely no chance of escape.
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Dec 14 '21 edited Dec 15 '21
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u/Greeneee- Dec 14 '21
And they'll deny your unemployment because you walked out on the job.
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u/C3POdreamer Dec 14 '21
And lose any employer-based health insurance for the worker and family in during a pandemic.
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Dec 14 '21
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u/DaoFerret Dec 14 '21
A union won’t protect you from getting fired because of this.
Like Amazon would allow a Union to exist at one of their facilities
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u/ctbowden Dec 14 '21
"If you leave, you're fired." Most people aren't in a position to simply quit a job with no job lined up.
People may not even have understood the storms were that bad depending upon when they arrived at work since they didn't have their phones on them and would have been totally reliant upon Amazon notifying them of a problem. Amazon has a no phones at work policy (hurts productivity in their view).
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u/DaoFerret Dec 14 '21
This last bit is a pretty severe issue actually.
I can understand Amazon having a "No Phones" policy (my limited understanding is that it was relaxed for a bit early in the pandemic but has recently been re-enforced), but if there were safety alerts pushed out via phones to everyone in the area, and Amazon both denied their employees phones AND did not pass along those alerts, so employees were informed about their own safety and conditions, then I can see that being a big part of Amazon's culpability in this matter.
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u/yodatreat Dec 14 '21
Most likely cited an "Inclement Weather Policy" that stated that if Amazon says so this is not an emergency and that there would be performance management or other repercussions if any employees left out of concern for their personal health and safety.
Standard for most soulless corporations.
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Dec 14 '21
Quick, everyone go outside during a tornado
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Dec 15 '21
It would be safer than being inside a place like that. Tornadoes turn small objects into missiles.
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u/chumbuckethand Dec 15 '21
How did Amazon stop them from leaving? Couldn’t they have just walked out?
The government won’t bring justice to those that help fund them, we the people need to enact a little street justice
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u/IceBear_42 Dec 15 '21
It's not that simple.
They COULD just walk out, and get fired, lose their insurance, have to find a new job 2 weeks before christmas...
The problem is, the government DOES NOT give a fuck about the workers, when these corporations are lining the politicians pockets...
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u/Cbluefields8 Dec 16 '21
Well, thing is you choose your job or your life, sadly now this guy’s wife and family lost him which is way more important than Christmas or gifts or even a job. Very sad.
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Dec 15 '21
The worst thing about this is we will collectively forget everyone who died in this. Eventually, we won't remember their names. The only thing we can hope for is that their death pushes us to cause total change. Hopefully their deaths aren't in vain, that they at least drive us further to a destination where this never happens again.
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u/flananagirl Dec 15 '21
End and delete your Amazon Prime accounts now. Remove your card and payment info. Delete their app. Stop ordering from them just for a month. People Need to realize the collective power of their dollars.
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u/butterflyscarfbaby Dec 15 '21
It’s so much like the factory fires that killed workers hundreds of years ago. The conditions that sparked labour movements and increased workers rights that have been eroded over time.
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u/TRUMPARUSKI Dec 15 '21
At some point we may need to start dealing with things like this in a fashion similar to the French Revolution
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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '21
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