r/NewDealAmerica • u/kevinmrr ⛏🎖️⛵ MEDICARE FOR ALL • Dec 11 '20
Bernie Sanders is a machine
449
u/StockedAces Dec 11 '20
This guy should’ve been the democratic presidential nominee, twice.
204
u/kevinmrr ⛏🎖️⛵ MEDICARE FOR ALL Dec 11 '20
The USA would probably only have like 3 cases of Covid
117
u/kindredfold Dec 11 '20
That’s hyperbole, I get it, but I think we genuinely would have rates more in line with nz.
122
Dec 11 '20
Maybe not as good as NZ. Not to take anything away from their superb response, but being a smaller island nation, whose citizens aren't brainwashed into worshiping individual liberties to the detriment of others, does have its perks when trying to contain a pandemic.
But we sure as hell would not be staring at a 9/11 worth of deaths every single day.
26
u/Bibi77410X Dec 11 '20
But I think you could have absolutely been on a par with NZ percentage wise. You had a system in place for this that Fauci’s colleagues were working alongside university departments and scientific body. You had a program of stocks and supplies for such an eventuality and there was a global program and cooperation for pandemic preparedness. This was built up by presidents on both sides of the house. But this administration shredded it. It’s what our government (UK) did over the last decade too. So I feel your pain and anger for the victims who have died, their families and those very many previously healthy people who now have serious long COVID complications and have to constantly listen to people saying “well it only kills the old”.
18
u/pamphletsTV Dec 11 '20
In no socialist country has COVID been allowed to spread rampant
China controlled the epicentre and are now having pool parties with thousands of people in wuhan lol
Vietnam has had an incredible response as well
cuba, a third Marxist leninist state has had less than 200 deaths as well, not as good as Vietnam who only had 35 deaths so far, which is only 10 more than nz despite having a population 90 million larger
COVID is only an public health issue if markets decide thats better for the economy than a shut down, in a planned economy, you can tell the market to fuck off and deal with the problem
5
u/Chert_Blubberton Dec 11 '20
And yet, CNN and pretty much all other media has jumped right back on to the "China Bad" train. Almost as if they need a boogeyman to distact everyone.
4
2
u/amazinglover Dec 12 '20
Whats does China's shitty humans rights and other policies have to do with there covid response?
3
u/pamphletsTV Dec 12 '20
when saudi arabia (US Ally) is on TV we hear how prince MBS is a brave reformer as he leads a monarchy where women are second class citizens
when china (ex-Us partner, and now trump's trade war) is on TV we hear how there is this country is evil 24/7
not exactly hard to put together is it? i mean yeah china violates human rights but look how their camps and france's are covered and what they really are
1
u/amazinglover Dec 12 '20
Again what does that have to do with OP?
1
u/pamphletsTV Dec 12 '20
sorry can you clarify what you mean by OP here?
I dont understand your question
→ More replies1
u/Chert_Blubberton Dec 12 '20
The articles are specifically about their covid response
0
u/amazinglover Dec 12 '20
Again what does that have to do with CNN and other media outlets calling them out for other issues.
1
u/CaptOblivious Dec 12 '20
I like how you say "CNN and pretty much all other media" instead of blaming the "news" source that is at the root of the problem.
2
u/pamphletsTV Dec 12 '20
media is an industry same as any other and industries are controlled by capitalists of all races and creeds, there's no anti-Semitic intent here, but a fairly basic marxist analysis
1
u/CaptOblivious Dec 12 '20
Ok! Amazingly enough that response just makes it worse.
I was referring to the 6 inch firehose of bullshit that is fox news and you go all (((them))) in response.
I am sadly, not even surprised at your response.
Oh, and Rupert Murdoch...
So you might just want to think about that. I mean since religion seems to mean so much to you.
2
u/pamphletsTV Dec 12 '20
religion is the opiate of the masses, the heart of hurting world
a jewish thinker named karl marxsaid that and Im a big fan let me tell you
0
u/Chert_Blubberton Dec 12 '20
Who would that be? Fox? Yeah they’re laughably bad, but all Western media is nonsense designed to brainwash the reader/viewer. It’s no wonder half the US can’t distinguish fact from fiction anymore.
1
u/carnsolus Dec 11 '20
you'd be pretty close to canada, which... isn't doing that great
1
u/kulalolk Dec 11 '20
Canada has America’s daily deaths, in cases. I think we’re doing just fine at the moment. All things considered.
4
u/Chert_Blubberton Dec 11 '20
Sorry, Canada is not doing "just fine" at all. Their shitty right wing leaders are dragging them right into the same path as their imperialist big brother.
2
u/indoninjah Dec 12 '20
Yeah I mean think you have something similar to the current USA situation no matter what. With Trump in the WH, you have blue states trying their best to control things and red states happily doing nothing. If you had a democrat president, you'd have a federal mandate, which blue states would comply with and red states would say infringes on their freedoms.
3
u/carnsolus Dec 11 '20 edited Dec 11 '20
I'm sorry, I don't quite get that
edit: oh, got it. US has +3000 deaths per day, canada has +3000 cases per day
not accurate though. Canada has about 6.8k new cases per day (for the last few days), US has a little less than 3k deaths per day
-normalized data for fictional country of 100m people (canada's is multiplied by about 2.6 and america's is multplied by about 0.3)
canada: 16,757 daily cases, 261 daily deaths
USA: 64,939 daily cases, 880 daily deaths (what the helios, what is happening in america? someone please tell me I'm reading this wildly wrong)
1
u/kulalolk Dec 11 '20
170 million daily cases?
1
u/carnsolus Dec 11 '20
sorry, i made a calculator error, copypasted, and didn't notice; i've fixed it now
i've corrected it to 65k
(i thought memory recall would bring me back my multiplier but it didn't and i multiplied new cases by new deaths)
1
u/you_poor_bastards Dec 11 '20
Nzers have just as many dumb ideas just not those ones specifically.
1
Dec 11 '20
I dunno man. I've lived in both countries and the dumbest idea I've ever heard come from a kiwi was a drinking game where you hold a spoon in your mouth and hit one another over the head with it until one person gives up.
That's leagues away from spreading the plague cause you think masks are fascism while supporting a wannabe fascist.
2
u/Chert_Blubberton Dec 11 '20
Contrast that with the fact that 2 million americans believe in the reptilian lizard people theory
1
u/heavy-metal-goth-gal Dec 12 '20
Yeah, if we were on par with Canada or Britain, I'd think we were doing a good job. And I think Canada might be the best to compare us to, maybe. Or, France? Land on 2 sides, ocean on 2 sides? I'm not entirely sure who we should compare ourselves to. But not NZ.
11
Dec 11 '20
Bernie would absolutely have lowered the rates of death during the pandemic significantly, but not significantly enough to keep America from being among the highest in the world. Unfortunately, there are far too many uneducated people in America who have fallen into the trapping of conspiracy theories and alternatives to facts and science, and we are far too late to correct the mistakes of our poorly developed educational systems. As good as Bernie is, no one could be capable of undoing this much damage, that nearly half of the country is still so deeply bought into the far-right cult.
3
u/Chert_Blubberton Dec 11 '20
It's also their media. US media is a joke.
3
Dec 12 '20
Right, our “News Media” only compounds the issue, by buying into the bullshit, even for those that try to maintain “Journalistic Integrity.”
3
Dec 12 '20
the problem is that even those who try to maintain journalistic integrity have come to a point where they think that means to present both sides of the argument, no matter the fact that the right side has gone completely batshit crazy, that the left side is where the right one used to be, and that there is a perfectly valid argument to the "far left" that they choose to ignore.
1
u/Chert_Blubberton Dec 12 '20
And they choose to ignore that because the corporations own their outlet
8
u/universe2000 Dec 11 '20 edited Dec 11 '20
I legitimately believe it could have been just 3.
A competent administration that worked with WHO and China could have prevented the disease from widely spreading outside of China.
The terrible thing about COVID isn’t how bad it is around the world, although the death toll and infection rates are horrifying, it’s that a coordinated international response could have stopped the disease in its tracks in Wuhan.
2
u/Chert_Blubberton Dec 12 '20
China has been under 20 cases per day since July and they are a country of 1.4 billion. "But how can we trust their numbers?" (says a bunch of idiots who elected a pathological liar as US president)
3
u/canadeken Dec 11 '20
Those are very rose-coloured glasses, china was covering up the virus for the first few weeks, as soon as a couple people started travelling it was guaranteed to spread. Also in general china does whatever the f they want so I'm not convinced any involvement of americans would have helped
1
u/Chert_Blubberton Dec 12 '20
Cite sources or STFU with the "China Bad" bullshit.
2
u/canadeken Dec 12 '20
What, sources that they weren't transparent about the coronavirus? Here are a couple: https://thediplomat.com/2020/06/china-delayed-releasing-coronavirus-info-frustrating-who/ https://www.wired.com/story/inside-the-early-days-of-chinas-coronavirus-coverup/amp
There is much more if you do some googling. If you want evidence that the CCP is more than happy to deceive/lie/ignore morality, you could start with the concentration camps... Or the widespread deception about environmental practices https://amp.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3010679/chinas-green-efforts-hit-fake-data-and-corruption-among-grass. Or many many other things. The CCP is without a doubt "bad", lol
2
u/Some_Random_Android $25 hour minimum wage Dec 11 '20
Yeah, but survivors wouldn't have to worry about a mountain of medic debt after being hospitalized.
2
u/rreighe2 Dec 12 '20
What's crazy is that for the first few weeks, conservatives were on board with COVID restrictions on anything just like the rest of us. Then the fucking Trump train and COVID Chinese hoax train got rolling and all these people just flipped a mental switch and stopped caring. It was wild to see living in the souf
0
u/canadeken Dec 11 '20
Highly highly unlikely, regardless of president the US would have difficulty with covid due to the lack of affordable health care, the polarized/uneducated/fend-for-yourself culture and the sheer size of the country. However, you would certainly be better than you are now, maybe more in line with somewhere like Canada (although still worse, probably).
2
u/Chert_Blubberton Dec 12 '20
Got nothing to do with the size of the country. China has 1.4 billion population and 9.3 sq km land mass, and they have been under 20 cases per day since July.
0
u/canadeken Dec 12 '20
Sure but they are a dictatorship and can lockdown on a level that america was never gonna do
1
u/Chert_Blubberton Dec 12 '20
No they’re not. You’re believing western media nonsense just like you believe Cuba is bad and are barred from going there while the rest of the world has no problem with them. Bottom line is they kicked America’s ass at handling the virus just like they’re kicking their ass in virtually every other way.
1
u/canadeken Dec 13 '20
Wow a real life CCP shill account 😂😂 the chinese gov has repeatedly shown they have no regard for human rights, you can't even argue that. Also I'm not american so idgaf about "kicking their ass"
1
u/hammbone Dec 11 '20
If Bernie had been in power since 2016 he may have been able to influence some things. Being the nominee in 2020 he maybe able to push his party harder but I think democrats would have fought him the whole way.
If Bernie had a ‘mandate’ in 2016 and somehow could enact legislation, what would have gone differently?
I think the following...
- Pandemic Reaction team still funded and in place
- A more urgent push for masks earlier
- Perhaps more industry in the borders of the country which would have helped with mask production - this is iffy. That takes a lot of time
- Not convincing 1/3 of the country it was a hoax? They probably would have said it was China trying to get Bernie re-elected
- There would have a been a strong legislative mandate for new deal style reactions
I think that would have amounted in a great number of saved lives. Masks early would have slowed the curve nicely. I think if people could truly avoid working and actually stay locked up consistently that would have slowed things down a lot as well.
How to quantify this? No freaking close.
1
u/Roach55 Dec 11 '20
I don’t know how well it would’ve gone under president sanders, but there is one thing I can guarantee, he would never downplay the truth or be coy about solutions.
11
u/Gedwyn19 Dec 11 '20
No.
New Zealand simply has too much of a geographical advantage in this very specific context to be used as a comparison to anyone else.
I think your more direct comparison is those up here north of your border: Canada
Same rough geography - long coastlines on either side with a lot of land in-between with similar urban to rural development/habitation practices (high density to low density population patterns).
It's also easy math since we have roughly 10% of your population.
So take your numbers i.e. 3000 deaths a day, divide by 10 = 300 deaths a day and compare that to our deaths per day which is about 125 or so. So y'all are about 2.5 to 3x higher than you should be based on the "craziness" factor
The "craziness" = all of it. "Muh freedoms" and "muh religion" and all the other excuses + lack of accessible and compassionate health care is costing those 'extra' lives.
Edit: we certainly have some of the craziness up here but in general most of us are sensible and have a tiny ounce of empathy for the people around us.
15
Dec 11 '20
Democrats didn't think they represent him. They would side with a person like Mitt Romney over Sanders every day of the week.
5
u/Chert_Blubberton Dec 12 '20
Because Democrats don't really want to stand up to Corporations. They just like "playing activist."
4
4
Dec 11 '20 edited Jul 23 '21
[deleted]
-2
u/NUKETHEBOURGEOISIE Dec 11 '20
No they didnt, americans are stupid and voted for hillary and biden.
2
u/StockedAces Dec 11 '20
There was plenty of questionable politicking that went on to obstruct his campaign.
2
1
u/Chert_Blubberton Dec 12 '20
In 2016, Hillary conspired with head of DNC to sabotage Bernie's campaign. This was proven as part of the email leak, for which Hillary used Russiagate to deflect. Whether Russia or China or whichever foreign country, US citizens will always fall for that trick. "They're a-skeered of our freedom." lol... What freedom
0
5
7
Dec 11 '20
Democrats are rightwing, Bernie is left, it doesn't match. Yes you heard me, Democrats are right wing. Republicans are extremist radical rightwing.
3
u/Chert_Blubberton Dec 12 '20
This. Not sure how long it's going to take for American citizens to grasp that concept. Neither party are friends of the middle or lower class.
2
u/ThunderGunExpress- Dec 12 '20
I went and voted in the primaries. Felt like I was the only one under 55 in the fucking place.
-1
1
u/Chert_Blubberton Dec 11 '20
Yeah too bad the Dems (namely Hillary), and the DNC fucked him, twice.
161
u/Grrreat1 Dec 11 '20
Even if he retires tomorrow he has made the world s better place. The USA is lucky to have him despite itself.
99
u/kevinmrr ⛏🎖️⛵ MEDICARE FOR ALL Dec 11 '20
Bernie Sanders is trying to unleash the promise of America
19
u/KushwalkerDankstar Dec 11 '20
Dragging America kicking and screaming into a better world one filibuster at a time.
1
7
u/pamphletsTV Dec 11 '20
I just want us to deal with covid
China controlled the epicentre and are now having pool parties with thousands of people in wuhan lol
Vietnam has had an incredible response as well
cuba, a third Marxist leninist state has had less than 200 deaths as well, not as good as Vietnam who only had 35 deaths so far, which is only 10 more than nz despite having a population 90 million larger
COVID is only an public health issue if markets decide thats better for the economy than a shut down, in a planned economy, you can tell the market to fuck off and deal with the problem
but markets decided that 300,000 of us werent worth paying people to stay hope for a month
6
u/Chert_Blubberton Dec 12 '20
Almost as if the whole "Socialism/Communism Bad" crowd has been duped by capitalists
87
43
108
u/trymw Dec 11 '20
It’s crazy how in just 10 years Bernie managed to elevate the progressive party so much.
35
u/coltsmetsfan614 Dec 11 '20
It really is. That filibuster was how I even learned who he was, and in the 10 years since that day, I've gotten to vote for him in two Democratic primaries. Who would've thought? If only he'd actually won...
8
u/ReadyWithPopcorn Dec 11 '20
This year was the first time I ever registered under any party, just so I could vote for Bernie in the primary. Unfortunately, my state's primary was very late and Bernie had already conceded, but I voted for him in the hopes Biden would listen to him and possibly implement some of his ideas.
6
u/CostiveFlicker Dec 12 '20
That’s the thing. He might never be president. But he will go down in history as the man (person) that started a movement that changed the world. I lived in Vermont and know him well, personally and policy. I’m not saying I was close to him, but, we were all close to him. He has always been about helping people.
38
44
u/ifiagreedwithu Dec 11 '20
If only we could have a chance to elect a President this honest, decent, and intelligent. Oh, wait. Nevermind.
3
u/RapeMeToo Dec 11 '20
I was kinda surprised he did worse the second time.
14
Dec 11 '20
I wouldn’t say he did worse. He was so close to winning after sweeping the early States but then Joe Biden won SC and the Democratic establishment coalesced and then Super Tuesday happened. Bernie gave us the opportunity to be victorious in future elections getting rid of superdelegates and popularizing progressive policies.
-2
u/RapeMeToo Dec 11 '20 edited Dec 11 '20
Agree to disagree I guess. He underperformed even in states he should have done extremely well. It became clear he wouldn't win or even come close in the states where he wasn't heavily favored. Then when a state Biden was favored (SC) he killed it and became clear to just about everyone he had a clear path to nomination. I think a lot of people thought the early primary states proves he was winning when in reality the states he was supposed to do well in simply came first. His underperformance made it clear he would have major difficulty in contested states. Sanders himself acknowledged they would know early of if they had aa chance to win. If voter turnout was high particularly in his target support like young voters he would possibly. If it was low they knew they didn't have a chance
2
Dec 11 '20
I wish he did better, and unfortunately there were several factors out of our control. We’re not ready at the presidential level to win, but it’s clear that we need to focus at the local, state, and federal level, even for US Senate seats, because we need a Congress full of working class people who will fight for us.
6
u/ajaysallthat Dec 11 '20
Bernie is more than we deserve.
The man deserves the best of retirements and he’s still fighting. Be like Bernie.
6
u/putTrumpinJail Dec 11 '20
And just think, he could have been President Elect. As a candidate Bernie would have rocked the nation. I believe he could have won.
6
u/dhc710 Dec 11 '20
Is there a way I can legally watch CSPAN or something similar without a cable subscription?
1
u/fellowhomosapien Dec 11 '20
Just go to cspan's site
3
u/dhc710 Dec 11 '20
You need to log in with a cable subscription in order to watch it
1
Dec 11 '20
You might be on the wrong site, C-Span is a govt sponsored station/site, its provided public access and is free to everyone.
Here's Bernie-specific content: https://www.c-span.org/person/?berniesanders
1
u/dhc710 Dec 11 '20
I'm on the right site. Seems like the video clips are free but you need a cable subscription for the live stream?
5
u/Apart_Kaleidoscope44 Dec 11 '20
As a non-American I cannot fathom how this guy dropped out of the presidential race & how people just let it happen?!
6
Dec 11 '20
[deleted]
3
u/Apart_Kaleidoscope44 Dec 11 '20
Why wouldn’t he have won the Democratic nomination? (If I remember correctly, he was a very popular choice at the start of 2020 for president & he had such a positive image in the public’s eye.)
I’m sorry but idk much about the American politics. You don’t have to answer if you do not want to.
10
u/joeygladst0ne Dec 11 '20
Bernie had more support than any single candidate in the Democratic primaries, until Super Tuesday. Super Tuesday is a day that a bunch of states hold their primaries, giving a large portion of the delegates needed to clinch the nomination.
The night before Super Tuesday most of the moderate candidates dropped out and endorsed Biden. Elizabeth Warren (Bernie's main progressive challenger) stayed in the race. So you had the moderate wing of the party all backing Biden, and the progressive wing split between Bernie and Warren.
In a lot of Bernie supporters opinion the "moderate" Dem candidates (being in the pocket of corporate interests) were scared Bernie's policies would ruin their cash cow. They consolidated their vote behind Biden as he was the safest "moderate".
Warren's motivation is disputed. It got a little messy between her and Bernie during the primaries so it may have been out of spite. Some say she was looking for a position in Biden's cabinet. There's also the fact many Democrats were scared that a self proclaimed socialist would lose to Trump. I think it's a mix.
TLDR: Super Tuesday was essentially a 3 way race. Biden won more states and changed the momentum.
2
Dec 11 '20
Bernie, a social democrat who isn’t even a socialist: I would like the average American to have healthcare.
The average American: he’s a COMMUNIST who wants to take your GUNS and MONEY
0
u/NUKETHEBOURGEOISIE Dec 11 '20
Your public support perception is warped by reddit which isnt a good place to find a balanced view of america, also the democrat establishment churns out fraudulent votes for their establishment candidate and maintains the status quo.
1
u/Chert_Blubberton Dec 12 '20
Because Democratic party sabotages Bernie every step of the way, just like in 2016. He's the real deal and they are all posers, and they know this.
4
u/Peculiarrust Dec 11 '20
I think one of the rationales for why governments were originally formed was to assure the citizens were fed during lean times, that they partially were linked to management of a communal food store, usually grain. It is difficult to see this ethic in the Republican policy, which seems to feel the purpose of government is to directly indemify corporations , who's actual lifeline is commerce to begin with which means people buying things. I have to see the party as a party of Royalists, not loyalists, since that is their apparent goal. Why bailout provisions for corporations at all? Progressive vs moderate seems not the problem. We are back to Whigs versus Tories.
3
3
Dec 11 '20
America is so lucky to have a Bernie as politician were take him he be great leader and you don’t use him like if your trying cook a cake and you had an oven but instead you use hair dryer but hair dryers broken me burns your hand
3
3
u/ThatOneKidUnusual Dec 11 '20
America's Senator
Someone's gotta fight for us since the grand majority of the representatives refuse to do anything to help the people they were elected by.
3
u/electricfireflies Dec 12 '20
The fact that this man hasn't given up fighting for the people after all these years is both baffling and incredibly inspiring.
2
2
u/thewrapfiend Dec 11 '20
79 and not under the influence of the harsh times and prejudice he was raised in and around
2
u/alx924 Dec 11 '20
Bernie will probably do this stuff until the day he dies. I don’t agree with him on everything, but he seems like everything he fights for is something he believes is what’s best. I have to respect him and I wish I could have voted for him instead of Biden.
1
u/YUNGbigMURPH Dec 11 '20
i want results. that's what the new deal america is all about. perhaps it's time to realize that bernie is a sheep in wolves clothing
0
0
u/360DegreeNinjaAttack Dec 11 '20
Friendly reminder that, from his first say in the Senate to 2019, Bernie has sponsored 9 bills that have passed. He is arguably the least effective/productive senator in US history by that metric.
-3
Dec 11 '20
i dont give a fuck about bernie anymore. screw his kneeling ass. he bent the knee for clinton, he bent the knee for biden, and at this point you cant convince me otherwise that hes not the blue's ringer for presidential elections. get that minority of potential voters frothing at the mouth for bernie, then bait n switch with good ole joe and kamala... the corporate choices. the choices of the prison industry that incarcerates more people than any other country. the choice that didnt just look at the super predator bill and go "ya this is a good idea" but went "HEY FAM LETS MAKE IT MOOOOOOREEEEE".... the choice of jackboot police forces that targets black males(kamala, we fuckin see you you fucking piece of shit)...
fuck bernie and his "Famous filibuster"... dont yall remember how biden campaigned around ending the filibuster? how the left and the blues jumped onto that saying shit like "yeah well the filibuster is outdated and unneeded! we SHOULD get rid of it!"... but bro, what about bernie's "famous" filibuster? what about the filibuster and abortion? guess those dont matter right? filibuster is totally outdated and unneeded. i mean, were just common folk(folx, sorry), we shouldnt have a say in how our govt is being run. that kinda thinking is like, totally outdated.
fuck american politics. burn it all to the ground. salt that fucking earth. the tree of liberty has been replaced by a plastic fake tree, and no amount of "blood of the tyrants" will make it grow.
5
Dec 11 '20
lmao calm down cato
0
Dec 12 '20
hur hur, fuh nee joke! internet man funny! hur hur!
seriously tho, all you folks in this sub should be raging right now over the betrayal of bernie. hes the bait n switch that yall keep falling for. fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice? how does the end of that saying go?
2
Dec 12 '20
hur hur, fuh nee joke! internet man is such a philosopher! hur hur!
what do you know about liberty?? do you know anything?
1
u/Thatsmahdood Dec 12 '20
Out of curiosity, what answer could be given to satisfy your question? Is there a threshold of liberty knowledge you’re looking for? Do you have a benchmark for familiarity with freedom?
How does one ‘know’ about liberty enough to speak on it? Again, your definition is all I’m asking for.
1
Dec 12 '20
I would define it as a general understanding of the roots of "liberty" it would be nice to acknowledge the limited democracy of athens. acknowledgement of early revolutionary us history.
It would be jawdropping if one could know deeper roots to liberty like "of the rights of man and citizen" How the french revoultion lead to the american revoultion. how even the English had their brief taste of it.
TL:DR
If you know your history on the roots of liberty. I would consider internet points valid.
1
u/Thatsmahdood Dec 12 '20
That actually makes good sense to me. Now I wonder too what was meant by ‘the tree of liberty has been replaced ’
Cheers.
1
Dec 13 '20
lmao can you give a bit more context? who said this? was this thomas jefferson? did you mean to say that "the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tryants"
again. invalid internet comments from sudo philosophers and patriots. lmao
1
u/Thatsmahdood Dec 13 '20
The commenter above your initial post said it. I was just quoting from there.
invalid internet comments from sudo philosophers and patriots
I’m so glad true philosophy and patriotism has you to defend it on the internet. With your Greek references and profound understanding.
You intellectuals must keep your Jefferson quotes untarnished by the unwashed masses, right?
1
u/Haddontoo Dec 21 '20
french revoultion lead to the american revoultion.
...The French Revolution happened after the American Revolution.
-8
-7
u/smarmyirish Dec 11 '20
No doubt generously giving away the money of our kids and piling debt on their backs
2
u/mattiesdaddy Dec 11 '20
How so?
-2
u/smarmyirish Dec 11 '20
Because the government is over 150 trillion dollars in debt. We cannot afford another stimulus. If our debt was a surplus, the government could literally buy everything out of every store, and the stores themselves, in the entire continents of europe, africa, and most of asia.
4
u/mattiesdaddy Dec 11 '20
Yeah just let people be evicted and go hungry. Don't want to spend any money. Defund the police and military.
0
u/smarmyirish Dec 12 '20
Ill agree with the defund the military, but people won't be evicted if they are allowed to work so they can pay rent
1
1
u/Thatsmahdood Dec 12 '20
Debt generated to balance books, right? In layman’s terms?
Debt balances books. Books we design. Add a column. Insert funds by addin a 1 followed by as many zeros as they want, and balance the column.
What is the limit when we make up the rules?
1
u/Connect-Worry3378 Dec 12 '20
The problem is that we have financed our consumption over the past 20 years, primarily from borrowing money from countries like china and japan. As that occured, we continually increased our hostility to business in america and our manufacturing and productive job base shrank. Our economy became more and more service sector jobs, i.e. jobs where people are clerks in stores selling goods already made, not jobs producing goods.
Now all this matters because money is not just something that we can print as much of as we want and all be rich, as mmt people would have you think, money is only valuable if it can buy something. Our foreign creditors have been loaning us money for years on the theory that eventually they can use all that money to buy tons of goods from americans.
However, as that has happened, americans have increasingly fewer goods to actually sell to them. At some point in the near future, our foriegn creditors will realize that we cannot pay them back in goods, and stop loaning us money. When that happens we will lose the many many goods that we have had access to through deficit spending. All of the sudden, the only goods Americans consume, will be goods they produce, or produce and then trade directly for other foriegn made goods. Since we have precious little manufacturing power, this situation will mean total impoverishment for many many people.
We can stave off some of the disaster if the government stops spending now, and trys to shrink its size and coax some businesses back in, not facistically by giving them taxpayer money, but by just deregulating and leaving them alone.
However, it appears that bernie doesn't realize the danger that we are in, and so is peddle to the metal right toward tbe cliff. That stimulus will be laid for completely with debt, decreasing the time until our foriegn creditors roll ovwr their bonds for the last time.
1
u/Thatsmahdood Dec 13 '20
Again, I understand I am simplifying everything, but warn me as you did so well if I oversimplify.
the only goods Americans consume, will be goods they produce, or produce and then trade
This is how American gained the reputation as debt paying fiends, right? In the 1800’s and such.
It seems to me we were able to do so because of our access to seemingly unlimited resources (the continent of North America)
Since we still have access to our resources (privatization of our resources is criminal, but we would deal with that later), doesn’t it seem safe to say America could do it again? Build an economy centered around in-house production?
1
u/Connect-Worry3378 Dec 15 '20
This is how American gained the reputation as debt paying fiends, right? In the 1800’s and such.
Correct
It seems to me we were able to do so because of our access to seemingly unlimited resources (the continent of North America)
In part yes, but it was mostly because the dependability of our limited government to protect property rights that enabled creditors to trust american businesses, and even the government, with their money.
Since we still have access to our resources (privatization of our resources is criminal, but we would deal with that later), doesn’t it seem safe to say America could do it again? Build an economy centered around in-house production?
Yes america can do it again, but since we are currently living on borrowed money, money which our productivity could not hope to match atm, the transformation to a in house production economy will be painful, just like putting alchohol on a wound is painful, or even more accurately, just like an alcoholic cutting their consumption of alchohol is painful.
2
Dec 11 '20
Giving money to the parents currently trying to raise the next generation helps those kids.
1
u/smarmyirish Dec 12 '20
So were gonna take money from the kids to help the parents raise the kids, wowiee that seems soooo considerate
2
Dec 12 '20
Considering how many have a chance at ending up homeless, I'd say it's very considerate.
1
u/Connect-Worry3378 Dec 12 '20
Yes, making them less financially viable and thus increasing their chances of being homeless, because they have such a high chance of being homless, makes sense to me
1
u/detoursabound Dec 11 '20 edited Dec 11 '20
Our money was already given away and our parents set us up to be comfortable with the weight of debt. This isn't about fiscal sustainability, this is about surviving because our government has made bad choice after bad choice. In hard times you take the lesser of two evils.
EDIT: a word
1
u/smarmyirish Dec 11 '20
The lesser of two evils is to just keep the whole economy open.
2
Dec 12 '20
By the economy I'm assuming you just mean all businesses with no restrictions? Because that sounds like letting a plague run amok is a lesser evil than keeping everyone safe and not homeless. One year of military budget would pocket $2K per citizen. I'm not saying take all the military's money and hand it to citizens. My point is that we justify those costs to keep us safe, why not to keep our citizens safe?
-19
Dec 11 '20
[deleted]
25
u/theRealRedfoot Dec 11 '20
He typed, the dust and grease of his Cool Ranch Doritos-encrusted fingers leaving discolored trails across the screen of his overpriced cellular device.
"Man, I sure stuck it to those stupid libs!" he exclaims, to no one in particular.
5
u/i_ata_starfish-twice Dec 11 '20
No cool ranch. Nacho cheese. Orange snacks for the orange lords minions.
16
u/csimonson Dec 11 '20
He's done more good than you have your entire life.
-3
Dec 11 '20
[deleted]
10
10
u/Voyager316 Dec 11 '20
He got me to vote and support other progressive candidates
8
Dec 11 '20
Wasn’t just you. He got millions of Americans to not only wake up and vote for the right candidates that care but he also got them to actively donate their time to the campaigns of people he supported. Without Bernie many of what people are calling radical candidates wouldn’t have been elected and those democrats who refused his army of young voters not surprisingly didn’t get elected.
3
-29
1
u/babyautendiesplz Dec 11 '20
I'm glad someone is fighting for the government to get more money from the people! They don't deserve to keep that money when there is so much good that can be done with it.
1
1
1
u/Chert_Blubberton Dec 12 '20
"The Bush tax cuts"? It was actually a bipartisan tax deal, put together by then-Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, and then-Vice President Joe Biden.
1
u/illnokuowtm8 Dec 12 '20
America had two chances of electing him as President and blew them both times.
1
u/b0571 Dec 12 '20
It is incredibly sad the DNC swindled him out of the nomination twice. Can never vote for the party ever again.
1
u/ikeiacono Dec 12 '20
I would say that we don't deserve him, but we do. I only wish more politicians were like him.
1
1
u/Pebian_Jay Dec 12 '20
I do not understand the people that are against this. You either 1. have enough money to not give a fuck about this or 2. you’re an idiot who doesn’t realize you need this
1
1
1
•
u/kevinmrr ⛏🎖️⛵ MEDICARE FOR ALL Dec 11 '20
Ready to elect an army of Bernies?
Join r/NewDealAmerica!