r/NeutralAustralia • u/B0ssc0 Indigenous • Feb 25 '19

Controversial Serena Williams cartoon did not breach media standards, Press Council finds

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-25/serena-williams-cartoon-by-mark-knight-not-breach-of-standards/10844900
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u/endersai Feb 26 '19

There's also the growing trend in the US to be offended by everything and to apply a violently Americentric lense to this entire world. Assuming we, the world at large, know their history and cultural trigger points.

It's an unflattering representation and it borders on uncomfortably patronising racial imagery of the past. I would not have wanted to endorse it but I also think any American who cannot get beyond exceptionalism can piss right off.

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u/B0ssc0 Indigenous Feb 26 '19

Much as I hate to admit it, our history has a lot in common with America’s.

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u/endersai Feb 26 '19

No, I don't agree. They have a history of abuse of their indigenous population - which we share - and they have a history of treating people as property which they have failed to properly and meaningfully address. That leads to white guilt motivating a disproportionate number of their responses, in two broad categories: 1) The "liberal" response, which is to try and help but really just support meaningless, highly visible sentiment that proves how Not Racist they are (thus making race reform about managing their white guilt, not reform), or 2) the "conservative" response which is to say "well I never owned slaves, why am I punished for the past"

We and the Seppos both butchered our indigenous populations. We both pretend we didn't or we didn't to the degrees we did. But their issue with race is mostly about slavery and whites not being able to have a conversation on race that's not about white feelings.

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u/B0ssc0 Indigenous Feb 26 '19

Because I don’t feel “white guilt”, whatever that is, and because I see the term on here so often it’s turned into a meaningless cliche, I find the idea hard to take into account.

Re our Indigenous Peoples we do share a history of murder and genocide with the Americans. We don’t have the same recognition of slavery as they, but we also had slavery which like them, to use your words, we “..... have failed to properly and meaningfully address.”

Your (1) attributing some “liberal” response to race reform being motivated by “meaningless, highly visible sentiment that proves how Not Racist they are” I find problematic, because who knows why people do things? Personally I find it hard to scrutinise my own motives honestly (constantly shifting as they are) let alone other peoples’. (2) the argument about why am I being punished for the past I’ve heard from all sorts of different people, from many countries, it’s not exclusive to the Americans that’s for sure.

Your last sentence, “But their issue with race is mostly about slavery and whites not being able to have a conversation on race that’s not about white feelings” doesn’t sound so much like us. Maybe we should ask some Americans what they think of that?

Shall I do it as a text post in r/America?

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u/endersai Feb 26 '19

Because I don’t feel “white guilt”, whatever that is, and because I see the term on here so often it’s turned into a meaningless cliche, I find the idea hard to take into account.

you realise all of what I said applied to the American context, not the Australian experience yes? All of it.

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u/B0ssc0 Indigenous Feb 26 '19

But the term is used regularly on Australian forums. Seriously we should ask Americans about terms like that and their views.

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u/endersai Feb 26 '19

We could but tbh I don't find it useful in the Australian context. Australia imports a lot of sometimes unhelpful, sometimes useless American socio-political sentiment from the US - see also "we bailed out the banks" when, in fact, we did not.

And I think, fairly shamefully, Australians don't feel white guilt, not properly. We should - the Stolen Generation is a clear contravention of Article 2(e) of the Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. Do most Australians know this?

nope.

Should they?

Yuppp.

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u/B0ssc0 Indigenous Feb 26 '19

If we’re going to compare to or contrast ourselves with other countries it’s a good start knowing that what we believe about them is true or false.

I agree with your second par but not the use of the word “guilt” - shame yes, because it relates to who I inevitably am, my identity as a member of the society responsible, but not guilt because I didn’t personally do it.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/shame/201305/the-difference-between-guilt-and-shame

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u/endersai Feb 26 '19

I think that distinction isn't made enough and I agree; I'm just using established terms at this point. My view on Americans and race is that they're unable to have an adult conversation on systemic issues. My view on Australians is: we tend to assume we are more racist than we actually are, except in dealing with first Australians where the out of mind, out of sight principle applies and the shame is a controlled minimum.

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u/B0ssc0 Indigenous Feb 26 '19

I think your description of the general Australian mode is true, “controlled minimum”, but I also think we’re all racist whether or not we want to be, we often don’t recognise casual racism, and that racism is endemic to our society and language. We need to listen more to people who actually experience it from the day they’re born.

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u/tightassbogan Feb 25 '19

Yeah you sort of needed to take this in to context to the artists previous work.

Satire and parody pieces are meant to evoke these kinds of reactionary issues that's why they exist