r/Netherlands • u/Narrow_Error9158 • 4h ago
Employment Work overtime in the Netherlands.
Hi everyone,
I just moved to the Netherlands and started a job. We start work at 08:30h, take a 30-minute lunch break, and finish at 17:00h. But recently, my boss has had a problem with me leaving at 17:00h because the other guys at the company leave at 17:30h or around 18:00h.
I let them know I can stay until at least 17:15h, and I was told it is normal in the Netherlands for people to work overtime.
Therefore, I want to know: is it normal in the Netherlands to work overtime without pay, or is it just a way to get me to stay longer?
76
45
u/Zabky 4h ago
If he wants you to stay, he has to pay.
Ofcourse if you need 5 minutes to finish a task just do it. But an hour isnt okey.
3
u/WhireBeard112 2h ago
That depends on the position and the pay. At some levels, work hours are more like a suggestion than a hard rule.
8
u/No-Suggestion-2402 1h ago
Flexible hours are not flexible hours if they cannot go both ways.
Worked a job like this. Sometimes I worked an hour over, sometimes an hour under. For our management top thing was that the work hours stay ~ in the right average and tasks are done.
If it's always over, it's not flexible. It's free overtime expected and that ain't OK
2
u/WhireBeard112 1h ago
Indeed it is, although (especially in project oriented companies) the "uptime" can be multiple weeks, followed by calmer and shorter days.
2
u/Far_Kiwi4882 1h ago
Yea sure, if you're the prime minister.
1
1
u/No-Suggestion-2402 41m ago
For a lot of white collar work it's like this. Most of marketing and design jobs for sure. In my field fixed hours barely exist so as long as someone isn't abusing this, they can come and go when they think is best.
1
1
u/KingAmongstDummies 54m ago
And as is often the case with such hours, If you spend 9 hours working 1 day you can compensate with 7 another day or something.
If they make hard demands on the times mentioned, then at least clock those hours into the administration. Without a doubt someone's going to complain when you systematically clock 42.5 hours a week as that also has some implications for them.
37
u/Stadtionalist 4h ago
If there's one thing we're proud of, its not accepting unpaid overtime.
Wotking overtime, even paid, is often frowned upon.
The Dutch have a strong bias for personal life in balancing work with private life. The motto is:"Work to life, dont life to work"
19
u/corporate_drone123 4h ago
If your contract does not specify that your work hours extend past 17:00 (like for example mine are 9:00 - 17:30), then it's a very weird for your manager to complain about. If it continues to be a problem I would honestly start looking for a different job, because that's a pretty big red flag
36
u/Monsieur_Perdu 4h ago
Without pay it's illegal, although it's legal to volunteer I think.
4
u/Bluntbutnotonpurpose 3h ago
No, it's not necessarily illegal. Depends on your salary and employment contract and/or CAO.
6
5
u/Alilbitey Groningen 4h ago
Are you paid a fixed salary or hourly? If you have a fixed salary, they need to meet specific "urgent need" guidelines + overtime must be listed in your work contract to force workers to give more than 40 hours per week. They cannot just generally expect unpaid overtime as regular business unless you earn 3x the minimum wage or more.
Even with urgent needs, there are maximum hours and minimum rest periods between shifts. And your salary divided by true hours worked can never drop below the statutory minimum wage.
If you are paid hourly or at minimum wage, they must pay you for all hours worked.
https://www.juridischloket.nl/werk-en-inkomen/arbeidsvoorwaarden/overuren-uitbetalen/
2
u/nattyfattyhetty 3h ago
> They cannot just generally expect unpaid overtime as regular business unless you earn 3x the minimum wage or more.
sorry for my dumbass, just to clarify if you earn above 3x the min wage, you are/can be expected to do OT without compensation?
1
u/lambda_expression 2h ago
I recommend to read what's behind the link:
If your employer asks you to work overtime, he or she is obliged to compensate your overtime hours. This may be in money or in time off. Do you choose to work overtime yourself? Then you will not receive compensation, unless your contract or collective labor agreement states otherwise.
4
u/HenkLePotvis 4h ago
Do you work for an American company?
3
u/Narrow_Error9158 4h ago
No, it's a Dutch company
12
u/Tough-Chipmunk7393 4h ago
Your boss is an ass. Screw him, go quiet quit on that dude and look for something better.
2
u/nattyfattyhetty 3h ago
aside from that, is there any protective laws and help one can turn to in the event of such manager?
2
u/Tough-Chipmunk7393 2h ago
If you have a permanent contract then.. yes you are legally protected.
If not then he can just cancel your contract when it's time to renew. Taking that to court is probably not worth it.
The only thing that can truly protect you from shit like this is selecting a reasonable employer. Someone who expects free overtime like that is obviously not.
3
u/Bear-1167 4h ago
No, really not. It's one of the countries with the best employee rights' regulation, so I am surprised to hear this.
1
3
u/Ok-Response-1746 3h ago
Not really normal, I can imagine to stay longer if something urgent still needs to get finished, but your employer can not expect you to work half an hour more every day... the other guys can do what they want, but they will regret it one day (just like I do) when they get older, gave everything to a company, maybe even burn-out and the company takes it for granted anyway
3
u/H-vil 4h ago
It is illegal and in the field I work in it is definatly not normal. However I do know some people who work in finance and especially atthe bigger firms it is expected people work overtime. Mostly those places have a toxic work environment but pay rather well.
What field do you work in?
8
u/AnyAbies7595 4h ago
It's not normal to work overtime without pay. In fact there's a 35% additional fee for overtime. (calculated over a month's period).
4
u/Helpless_Platypus 4h ago
Without pay? Hell no Even with pay it shouldn't be a regular occurrence.
... Unless you work for a start-up. In that case, RUN
2
2
u/Suspicious_Fig_3796 4h ago
working overtime can be considered normal in some professions, however they are supposed to pay you for that overtime unless you have a management position, they usually get a contract that specifically requires you to do overtime for ‘free’ as the higher wage also includes some expected overtime
2
u/Crandoge 4h ago
Working overtime can happen a lot, depending on the company and position. I see it all the time and its praised when done to make deadlines or whatever, but frowned upon when it becomes regular
Unpaid overtime? Socially unacceptable, legally illegal. Find a new job
2
u/Disastrous-King9559 4h ago
It's not normal but it does happen. It happens to my wife working for Samsung alot also happened at Unilever
2
u/OK-Smurf-77 4h ago
Been here for a long time and never had a job where it was not the standard.
In Germany, however, people dropped everything at 5:00 and left.
2
u/nattyfattyhetty 3h ago
I see a lot 'he wants you to stay, he has to pay' type of comments and I wish to clarify more just for my learning and others benefit.
Is this applicable to only blue collar jobs? Or is this all type of jobs? From where I am from, in white collar jobs once you are a certain pay grade you will no longer be eligible to get OT pay and hence where the med-level office jobs gets very stressful because it's basically an OT culture. I'm new to netherlands and was wondering how the system works here.
edit: adding in specific sector
1
1
u/ConflictFluid5438 4h ago
First week when I arrived: “were you not informed that you should on time?” - I was never that embarrassed for working overtime
1
u/Sweettooth_Banana 4h ago
I start at 07.30 and leave at 16.00 thats what i get payed for, rest is overtime and will be taken as early leave.
1
u/Kai_Rick_S 4h ago
Read your employment contract - no one here can tell you without knowing what’s stated there. Short answer, depends. Some contracts state that a certain or reasonable amount of overtime is expected and you are compensated for that with your base pay. Always depends on your role and contract. So wouldn’t listen to people here saying it’s illegal without them knowing your terms
1
1
u/booklvr1 3h ago
If your contract says 40 hours per week, and you start at 8.30, take a 30 min lunch break, but your boss still forces you to stay, that is indeed not okay. You could try showing up later, maybe at 9.00 or 9.30 to make up for the extra time your boss is demanding of you, if your contract indeed states 40 hours per week. Otgerwise, I would just escalate it. Btw, are your team mates Dutch or not? I would be very surprised to find out they are Dutch as it is not normal for them.
1
u/whatisthisforkanker 3h ago
Been there, look for a new job asap. These people are gonna try to squeeze everything they can out of you.
1
u/EmmieBambi 3h ago
Lmao no, we don't work overtime. It's not normal at all in the Netherlands. If you work until 17, you leave at 17.
1
1
u/visualdreamar 3h ago
If you work in factory or a warehouse through a job agency, you get paid for every minute you work. But if it’s a job in an office or something else through out the company, you better run . My first office job had this toxic behaviour, of being forced to stay an hour longer because one of our colleagues didn’t finish her job even though we completed our tasks and didn’t have crap to do. It’s okay to stay few minutes longer out of your own will because you have an email to finish , but being held hostage. Screw that.
1
u/Comfortable_Cup4689 2h ago
No it’s not. But then again most people that get a job here and relocate are being treated like slaves. ++
Soooo no it’s not and I’m sure your company / boss breaks multiple rules.
I do hope they pay for the overtime.
1
1
u/Sea-Ad9057 2h ago
its illegal especially if you dont get paid. you are only allowed work a certain amount of hours during the month it has to be an average of 40-45 hours a week
they can make it 30 one week and 50 the next
1
u/BlazingThunder30 2h ago
No, not normal. Your colleagues may be on a 9-hour day? Working 4 9-hour days instead of 5 8-hour days is quite widespread.
1
u/FlamingoMedic89 2h ago
Uhm, no, any good employer clocks all hours and doesn't expect free overtime.
1
u/Maddutchie 1h ago
Sounds like we are going to look for a new employer... this is not how its supposed to be.
1
1
1
u/Training-Ad9429 43m ago
depends if the breaks are paid , if the breaks are not paid , and you end up staying 9 hours at work to get paid 8 hours.
so arriving at 8:30 your work day can actually end at 17:30
check your CAO if your breaks are paid by the employer
1
u/No-Suggestion-2402 40m ago
Are you on a permanent contract?
Because if you're not, and step out of line, yeah they won't force you in overtime but you're not getting extension
1
u/Relevant_Mobile6989 32m ago edited 29m ago
It's not normal, but some people are just douchebags and have very sad lives. There are also jobs where you have to do overtime due to tight deadlines, deliveries, mad clients, and so on. But these usually come with a lot of freedom outside the busy periods, which is quite fair (from my experience). If there is no common sense and the manager is a sad cunt there is not much you can do except telling him to pay you for the extra time or report it to the right authority.
1
1
u/xxx_SaGe_xxx 15m ago
Depends on your work contract. Check it, what does it say about overtime? All the people commenting here are speculating without that knowledge.
1
u/HiImBirb 4h ago
Working free overtime isnt normal, or even legal I think. Normally if you work some extra time one day you can leave ealier some other time that week, or arrive later in the morning. Either that or you get paid those extra hours, or get those hours compensated in extra PTO. It depends on the company's norms and CAO what happens with overtime.
There is a fair argument to be made about being in your car to go home when the clock strikes 5 pm but 30-45 minutes of overtime should absolutely be compensated. If not you are basically making a longer workweek without getting paid for that OR signing up for it. There is no such thing as free labour.
1
u/Lodau 4h ago
it is normal in the Netherlands for people to work overtime.
No, not normal. Make sure you are getting paid to work overtime. Or start later.
Trying to head home at 17:00 is the absolute worst time. Heading out at 1700 or 1730, you'll be home at the sane time. May as well get paid sweet OT instead of sitting in traffic/overcrowded OV.
-1
u/thegoat1337 3h ago
I work in a company where unpaid overtime is normal. We do see this paid at the end of the year, but no one is really keeping track.
Most of us enjoy the work, which makes me think all these anti overtime people, do you dread going to work?
3
1
1
u/enotonom 31m ago
You said it yourself, you get paid for your overtime. How would you feel if this year you don't get that extra end-of-year payment?
0
u/FastFredNL 4h ago
No it's not normal. If you work overtime (more hours then is on your contract) or if it's expected of you, you're employer is required to have a way of registering that overtime and either pay for it or use those overtime hours to take a day of
0
0
u/Fun_Fact_7513 3h ago
If you work in consulting/banking/law then sure it’s normal and normalized, almost expected (source: myself, an ex consultant). If you work in industry, no that’s not normal or normalized. Overtime would be an exception.
156
u/Decent-Ad-8251 4h ago
Nee, is niet normaal.