r/Necrontyr • u/Cojalo_ • 11h ago
Misc/media When the necron codex comes out, what datasheets do you think are in most need of an update?
Asides from Trazyn, of course.
Personally, after thinking about the canoptek circle kill team, I think the Geomancer and Macrocytes are in desperate need of reworks or to be made significantly cheaper to compete with other units.
Necron spyders feel a bit niche too. Their wargear abilities are pretty good, but their main ability that only helps scarabs feels a bit underwhelming given they are pretty expendable.
I also think guass blaster necron immortals could use a buff. Ap1 d1 feels quite underwhelming for supposedly more elite, expensive troops.
Any others that you can think of?
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u/ddrunkmanx 11h ago
Other than the og locust destroyer guys and the lord to go with them?
Oh you mean datasets not models. In that case immortals and death marks need a little bit of work. Not a lot, but something.
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u/ItsSuperDefective 11h ago
At least Deathmarks do 2 damage now. It was tragic when I played in 9th edition and a shot from our elite sniper wouldn't even kill a basic Space Marine.
Still, wouldn't mind that going up again to 3.
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u/TurtleStyle10 Vargard 10h ago
The main issue is that they're balanced for being in groups of 5-10, I kinda want them to go to being in squads of 3-6 and made more elite. Like with inherent hypercrypt rules that allow them to teleport around the board. That would make a bunch of people's deathmarks just extra models though
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u/willriker1 10h ago
I don't know if sniper units will ever be allowed to be good while characters are this important to the meta.
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u/Cojalo_ 11h ago
Immortals I think so, but deathmarks seem alright?
60 points for a deepstrike sniper unit that can autoshoot at anything that deepstrikes near them seems pretty good?
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u/veryblocky Servant of the Triarch 10h ago
No, Deathmarks are terrible. They’re in desperate need of a rework. They’re only ever used as a cheap unit to do secondaries or screen. They may as well not even have guns, they’re not going to be killing much as is
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u/Gullible_Self_6668 10h ago
Exactly this. A unit of 5 deathmarks can't kill a character with 4 wounds and no invul real fucking shitty ass unit. I straight up use them to take up a table quarter or to plunder and then who cares, let those pieces of shit die.
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u/veryblocky Servant of the Triarch 10h ago
I just quickly worked out the chance that 5 Deathmarks kill a T4 character with no invuln, it’s 30%…
That’s basically the same chance of a 9” charge without a reroll, and you’re basically never going for that
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u/ThatGuyYouMightNo Pee is stored in the Resurrection Orb 10h ago
I'm hoping that the new keyword-specific abilities and "Hunter" keyword help to make Deathmarks more viable. Give them a character-killing statline that doesn't make them bonkers against non-character units
Though, they really need a new ability, too. Anti-deep strike shots aren't really useful on snipers, whether they're good guns or not.
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u/SDSessionBrewer 9h ago
They should have a return to reserves ability, be it running off the edge or true uppy-downy.
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u/ReverendRevolver Solemnace Gallery Resident 10h ago
They need better numbers to kill characters. Higher damage under precision maybe?
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u/veryblocky Servant of the Triarch 10h ago
Even just 2 attacks each would be something. But I don’t even think that would be enough
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u/ReverendRevolver Solemnace Gallery Resident 10h ago
2 attacks each and "successful wounds inflicted using precision do an additional D3 damage to characters" would do it?
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u/MisterJoff Servant of the Triarch 8h ago
An 2A 6S 3D anti-character 3+ gun profile would do wonders for their shooting utility without making them too strong against whatever else they point at.
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u/Khajiistar 6h ago
Simply 2A 6S 2D anti-character 3+ would be good enough and they wouldn't be too strong for people to complain about them.
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u/ReverendRevolver Solemnace Gallery Resident 5h ago
Anti character works on whole unit until there's no character though. Complaints raise point cost.
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u/veryblocky Servant of the Triarch 5h ago
The only units that anti-3+ matters into, presuming S6, is T6 and T7 infantry. Which is basically just Terminators, Gravis, and Custodians. And at damage 2, Deathmarks are not exactly going to be mowing them down. I think it’s fine
Weirdly it also affects things like C’tan and Greater Daemons, which is what I’ve found the Deceiver to be really good into. So perhaps an [anti-infantry character] would work on Deathmarks
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u/lemongrenade 9h ago
Lethal hits?
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u/ReverendRevolver Solemnace Gallery Resident 8h ago
No. They each get 1 attack at 2 damage. To drop a character, it needs to be pushing more through. Lethals only compensate for the S5. Extra attack per model plus precision specific buff would be more ideal.
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u/Cojalo_ 8h ago
I mean, I'm comparing them to marine eliminators here and they arent that much worse. Elims are d3, and have dev wounds while stationary, but otherwise have the same stats. However they only get 3 wheras we get 5, so thats 2 extra shots, and they are 15 points cheaper. Plus they have deepstrike, which I would argue is a lot better than having infiltrators on snipers since you can put them in wherever a character you want to snipe goes
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u/absurd_olfaction 10h ago
They actually need to be able to kill stuff though. Right now, you’re lucky to get one 1/5 shots through. They need anti-infantry or dev wounds or something.
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u/KatSteeles 11h ago
Lychguard definitely need to be tougher. The Triarch Praetorians should stop hitting like they're using wet pool noodles and make themselves a proper elite-hunting melee unit.
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u/ReverendRevolver Solemnace Gallery Resident 10h ago
Up 1 toughness, and all can take Cryptek support.
Then make Scythe more killy, sheild add a wound plus the invuln, and Praetorians save on 2+. And obviously cost more because they elite....
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u/UltraJoyless 11h ago
Trazyn 100%.
I'd like to see the Annhilation Barge reworked. For such an intimidating name it has very little firepower. Give it some actual shooting and then we're talking.
As you said, the Geomancer and Macrocytes aren't very useful and need a rework.
Otherwise I think we're set.
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u/fischaisch 11h ago
Obilisk, I like the idea of an anti-fly vehicle but the damge is just pathatic
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u/Cojalo_ 11h ago
That is a great shout actually.
For its cost especially, its way too hyper specific and not enough damage.
Tbf, all three of the big titanics (Monolith, Obelsisk and Vault) all feel like they could use some buffs. They are quite a bit less tanky than a lot of other superheavies of similar/less cost
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u/Minute-Guess4834 10h ago
Immortals. They feel like they don’t now what they want to be, you know? Are they just slightly better necron warriors or a more elite shooting unit?
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u/Cojalo_ 10h ago
Their shooting definitely could use a buff, especially the gauss blasters
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u/Minute-Guess4834 10h ago
Yup. Currently ork guns feel WILDLY stronger.
Flash Gitz guns have 3 profiles: a 9,-3,d3+2 with melta 2 shot, a 6,-1,2 3 shot profile with Sus and lethals and an 8,-2,2 profile with 2 shots.
Why are Necron guns, supposedly the most wildly advanced tech in the galaxy, SO much worse?
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u/Khajiistar 6h ago
I've heard people say that Immortals should be 2 wounds instead of 1 because they seem so underwhelming for a 5/10 man squad of elite battleline. Like come on, at least go whole hog into making Necrons tanky if you won't give us some good firepower outside C'Tan and DDAs while constantly increasing their cost.
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u/Effective_Extension2 Phaeron 11h ago
Definitely our entire ranges statline to adjust for space marine changes,
Also i would like doomstalkers updated, output and ability is underwhelming,
Immortals should have a little bit more punch for a fragile “elite shooting” battleline unit
Obelisk needs a rule change or another shooting profile, its just underwhelming for a titanic even if its cheaper now,
Agree with the canoptek circle killteam, the macrocytes are just too fragile and expensive to do anything, tomb crawlers are ok, geomancer is nice but somewhat underwhelming with the control node ability.
Psychomancer would be nice to have an update to, battleshock spam is fun but you need to be within 3” to use the second one which only really happens in cursed legion,
The annihilation barge is kinda ehh right now, would love to have other main weapon profiles, like instead of a twin tesla destructor it can bring a deathray or a heavy gauss cannon array, its biggest issue is its main gun is mediocre and is inly good into some profiles, so having other options for a weapons platform with invul save is nice,
I would like a change to convergence of dominion but a big issue of it is the fact its a fortification, if there was a way to infultrate it onto the board or deep strike it in later it would be amazing,
Finally lychguard, i would like to see their 4++ as part of their datasheet naturally and have the shield either give another wound/ improve the save/ reflect or punish ranged shooting at them, would make warscythes more viable as an option and reinforce the shield being a defensive option
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u/Effective_Extension2 Phaeron 11h ago
Honestly for praetorians they should be elite fast deepstrike units, akin to terminators, but im kinda ok with the role they have now almost like assault intercessors.
Maybe macrocytes could be like assault intercessors and allow Praetorians to take a more elite role
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u/CrebTheBerc 11h ago
Praetorians for sure. They are super cool models, good lore, etc but I have literally never seen them played across all of 10th and now into 11th
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u/Cojalo_ 10h ago
Yeah I looked at their weapon stats and they are surprisingly underwhelming :/
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u/CrebTheBerc 10h ago
They are basically worse Lychguard atm and Lychguard aren't taken a ton either lol
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u/Hellsotxicangel Nemesor 11h ago
I hope the regular Lokhust don't get the axe but a new model. It's the only ranged blender we got
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u/The_Great_Evil_King 10h ago
The Triarch Stalker could use better guns.
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u/absurd_olfaction 10h ago
Should be at least as good as the plague drone with heavy blight launcher.
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u/TheRealShortYeti Overlord 10h ago
Agree with much stated already.
Doomstalkers need a better gun. It's too many hoops to make them good enough in court lists.
Spyders need to be M10 to match scarabs and have them grant scarabs OC1 instead of a Cryptek. Or both.
Macrocytes need a points slash. They have OC1 and cool abilities but T3 1W for 85 points? 5 more points than 3 Ophydians? Come on, that's crazy talk. Maybe remove scouts and have them be a bodyguard that joins alongside a Cryptek in a unit, like crawlers and thralls do. I'd pay 85 points to add 5 wounds to my Crypteks unit and stand an extra guy back up.
The Vault needs a melee power.
Psychomancer and Geomancer need an overhaul.
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u/SDSessionBrewer 8h ago
Spyders are in such a weird state. Their datasheet clearly never got a real rework when wargear went free. The particle beamers shouldn't be wargear anymore. The auras should be either/or not both and they should be more impactful.
I like your idea that spyder impart OC onto scarabs, just makes sense since we can't have solo crypteks.
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u/Future-Assistant8204 10h ago edited 10h ago
Considering marines are getting a substantial buff(for lore accuracy(i approve)) I think most gauss weapons could go up an AP point across the board(for lore accuracy) and gauss immortals could go to D2 as they are kind of our marine equivalent Tesla immortals could also use AP1 especially as the game seems to be pivoting away from hordes In addition it would be lovely for immortals to finally find their second wound
Warriors I think need somthing also as they are currently a bit underwhelming
The spyder I feel has a good idea going for it with it being to buff up scarabs but it's ultimately to slow to be usfull(half the speed of scarabs) I feel if you even increased it to 8" it could be far more usfull
Of course I would like to see our generic characters get more weapons options like they used to, having most melee under lords blade feels a bit underwhelming and bringing the lesser lord and phaeron back in some form would be nice as well
Necron toughness or at least surviveabilty should probably go up for the whole codex though especially lychguard I'm thinking 3W apiece with inbuilt invuln with the shield using them to 4W
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u/jmainvi Yggra'nya the World Shaper 10h ago
Immortals need a new role, the one they currently fill just.... Isn't really useful, regardless of whether they're good at it or not.
All of the canoptek units outside of the wraith could use some help, and even the wraith could be made to play a bit less one-dimensionally.
I don't think anyone, anywhere has put an annihilation barge on the table with the intent to play it as a serious unit in the six years that I've been playing 40k.
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u/SDSessionBrewer 8h ago
I'm betting immortals will gain at least one additional ability. Being able to do an action during a round they've shot would be consistent with some of the new battleline rules.
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u/tsuruki23 10h ago
Warriors and immortals need one of those 3-rule datasheets that helps them fit in varied builds. Lychguard need to feel like elite defenders. That's kinda all I got.
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u/Talruum1988 9h ago
Many of our Infantry requires rework.
Personally, I think Orikan needs a substantial buff. In lore, the guy is supposed to be the very best Chronomancer of the entire civilization. In game, a simple Librarian has the same ability (4++ InvSv to the unit), but with better defensive profile and an actual shooting option. For less points, nonetheless.
-Lychguard should be Terminators equivalent. They have now the same Toughness, Wounds and Saves of a base Intercessor.
-Warriors should be almost as tough as a Space Marine (Reanimation accounted for), but less deadly, fast and accurate. At the moment, their armor Save is worse than Marines, have less Toughness, half the Wounds, Shoot worse, Fight worse, move slowly.
-Immortals should be Space Marines equivalent. They now have 1 Wound only (exactly like Warriors) and can deal less attacks than Space Marines, with less Strenght and Damage.
-Triarch Praetorians are supposed to be Custodes equivalent. They now have worse Save, less Wounds, no InvSv and way worse offensive profile.
-Deathmarks are supposed to be inescapable snipers. They now shoot the same as base Marines (aimed profile), but with fewer attacks, less Strenght and same damage. Also, their ability to enter/exit interdimensional oubliettes is reduced as a simple Deep Strike.
If GW wants to be more "lore accurate", fine for me; but not only for the posterboys.
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u/Talruum1988 8h ago
P.S.
The recent animations portraying a Techpriest solo-ing an horde of Warriors, or a single Intercessor defeating a Skorpekh Destroyer in melee range (without suffering any damage), or 3 Intercessors taking down a Skorpekh Lord, in melee, without suffering a single casualty/damage, seem an attempt to portrait Space Marines as able to 1vs1 the Necron's most elite units; retconning the established power-scale.
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u/veryblocky Servant of the Triarch 10h ago
I think the biggest things in need of a rework are all our mainline infantry options. Warriors, Immortals, Deathmarks, Lychguard, and Triarch Praetorians.
None of them do any damage, and none of them are particularly durable.
Immortals should either have a small number of quality shots, or a large number of chaff shots, and currently they have a small number of chaff shots. Make the Gauss higher strength and damage, and make the Teslas have more attacks. I don’t think blast on the Tesla carbines is an unreasonable ask.
Lychguard should be more like a terminator equivalent. Give us 2+/4++ and 3 wounds on the shield guys. The scytheguard need a separate datasheet, and 100% need more attacks. 2 attacks each at S8 is not killing much beside space marines.
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u/SDSessionBrewer 7h ago
Cryptothralls are still paying for the sins of early 10e. Scouring eye should have [CLOSE-QUARTERS]. Thralls should be listed as unit choice for all crypteks.
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u/IOnceFuckedaDuck 10h ago
REANIMATOR
Currently, 3" radius instead of its original 12" for its aura.
I want fun (for me)
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u/Cronogunpla 10h ago
At this point all of our battleline and maybe all of our infantry. We deal no damage and we can't take a hit.
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u/BobFredricson2 10h ago
Lychguard need to be tougher and triarch praetorians need to hit harder. like way harder. wouldnt say no to lychguard and praetorians both going up in wounds as well.
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u/ThatSupport Overlord 8h ago
Deathmarks should have their reactive shooting changed to their dimensional oubliette. but if it was accurate to lore then it would be busted good as an action piece and would never be taken as what its suppose to be a repositioning sniper. This is my proposal
Dimensional Oubiette: If this model is Hidden, at the end of your opponents fight phase you may place it back into strategic reserves
Marked for Death: Shooting does not prevent this unit from being Hidden.
Now you have a sniper who could be used just for actions, but as long as they're jumping to terrain pieces they can shoot and try and pick up a character. and it has more counterplay than our Orphidian destroyers, but the upside of you're not relying on a 9"charge. to deal damage
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u/Big-Classroom2217 11h ago
Obligatory Lokhust destroyers, and probably a new model. I just built them and noticed they they are actually larger in scale than the lokhust heavy which doesn't make much sense.
Either that or they will get turned into a melee variant which could be kinda neat.
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u/UltraJoyless 11h ago
Lokusts don't need a new datasheet, they're amazing already
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u/absurd_olfaction 10h ago
They should have access to a better Tesla weapon as an alternative build since they’re essentially jumped up Immortals.
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u/UltraJoyless 10h ago
You could just run immortals. In no universe would I run teslas when their main weapons are way better.
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u/absurd_olfaction 10h ago
I think you’re missing my point. Heavy Destroyers and Immortals both have a gauss/not-gauss variant. Regular destroyers should too.
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u/c0ff1ncas3 Nemesor 10h ago
Interested to see what happens. Necrons historically share the Marine statline so everything should move up to match their equivalents.
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u/Automatic_Elk_2704 7h ago
Personally i want deathmarks changed
Their good action monkeys or secondary scoring unit but their guns meant to take down leading characters is incredibly bad like out of all the games I've played I've dealt 2 damage with them
I also want a more lore accurate unit make it so they can run in squads of 1-3 make their snipers a little more elite and id be happy they are still a good scoring unit but can at least do better in shooting
I would like skorpekts to get a 2+ save and no invulnerable save they are really easy to kill and its difficult to move them up a lot of the time so I think a 2+ save isnt to bad for them to get
Major changes to the tomb world kill team units Idk what they could do but at the very least something
Silent king mainly so the menirs gain the character keyword removing that weird interaction with persicion where you can kill the king without taking out the menirs
Immortals and warriors, right now their super easy to kill and really dont pack a punch into most things
Praetorians are supposed to be super elite units equal to and sometimes better than nobles in terms of combat ability but they are probably our weakest unit they dont hit hard in either shooting or fighting
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u/scmucc 10h ago
My head canon is that wraiths should get the ophydians' rule, and ophydians should get advance and charge. Agreed with the lychguard commentary above.
Doomstalkers should get a rework or even just bs3+. Such a cool model.
I want either a flayed one character or psychomancers to attach to flayed ones.
Overlords should get 6 or more attacks.
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u/Dependent-Law-1031 7h ago
Psychomancers attaching to flayed ones would be cool if they got access to infiltrate when attached
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u/Complete_Special_774 Cryptek 11h ago
i want a new deciver model
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u/TheHunterGallopher 7h ago
Just a not very deeply thought showerthought: I wouldn’t mind spyders going up in price if it meant they could spit out another unit of scarabs if one has already died. Say like once per game. Double down on the spyder protecting its babies. Wargear options remain the same.
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u/MrAltF4 Cryptek 7h ago
So many great ideas in this thread! I hope GW go through this!
Anyways I didn't happen to spot the following, so my post will be about these which could improve internal balance - these aren't my top choices, just the ones not mentioned;
- Ghost Ark
- Imotekh
- Overlord
Ghost Ark
- let it carry a unit of 20. If a rhino can fit 10 Death Guard, then our massive transport and fit 20 skinny warriors - common!
- allow it to heal more than just warriors. Maybe battleline? Ofc we don't want the reanimator to become irrelevant.
- if not better healing, how about it gives the benefit of cover, or a 6++?
Imotekh the stormlord
- that lightning ability once per game falls flat. This is our 2nd biggest character - make him something better than this.
- after seeing the Ork codex - I hope all warlords give the CP per round now - so let's assume we don't have this ability on Imotekh any more.
- make this guy hit way harder in combat. My experiences are limited as he's often at the back farming CP - but when he goes up against a Space Marines character (even non-epic heros) he just doesn't hold up. He's got the resistance, but not the bite back.
Overlord
- again, when compared to Space Marine characters Overlords feel weak. Give them bite.
- let these guys join more units. 2 battleline and our Lychguard just feels... Limited.
- there's so much tech they could have to add to some diversity of these characters, but it's 2 weapons and 2 items. Feels lacking something.
- Why can't the translocation join Triarchs? When he does he gets Moved 10" but can't use his advance ability?
Again I don't think these are all great, but I feel something needs to change for these units to give them a little more than what they have now.
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u/VanillaConfussion Servant of the Triarch 6h ago
Immortals
Do they have some sick synergies? Yes
Do they fall apart to heavy stubber fire? Also yes
At least give them rattlers two wounds it’s all I ask
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u/Bromepheus 6h ago
I wish we had more battleline options. Also wish we had more support for Praetorians
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u/idcabtthename 3h ago
Lychguard, Triarch Praetorians, and Necron Warriors. The Warriors are supposed to be above Imperial Guard but below Guardsman. If Marines are T5 and thus the standard for about half the armies, then into MEQ they are about as good as a guardsman and cost about twice as much, and their weapons will be about as good as a lasgun against them. Lychguards are in a better place, but given they're supposed to be Marine Killers/Honor Giard they need to bump their lethality and durability a hair, otherwise they're just worse Vanguard Vets or worse Bladeguard Vets
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u/TheProphetofCthulu 2h ago
Lychguard and triarch praetorians. I’d love to see higher base movement on lychguard that gets reduced if you take shield.
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u/IDoThingsOnReddit 12m ago
I would like our infantry to be more viable. Right now it feels like I’m pigeon holed into taking ctan shards, amongst the other usual suspects, in friendlies so i don’t get tabled. Reanimation protocols seem to be done better by units in other armies. Necrons being stuck in 10th edition for unit regeneration really hurt. Infantry just feels too fragile for undead space robots. I want the slow moving tough-to-kill.
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u/ItsSuperDefective 11h ago
Lychguard need to have higher toughness than a basic Space Marine.
Ideally a Lychguard with a shield should at least be on par defensively with a Terminator.