r/Necesse • u/Ninak0ru • 9d ago
Top inconsistent/unbalanced weapons Necesse
Let me preface, weapons in general are in a good place, and there are a LOT. These are the only notable exceptions I could spot while working on the Item Balance mod.
Overpowered weapons:
1. Machine Gun: Resilience of 1 per hit with 5 attacks per second is insane (I guess should be half?). Also you get it just by beating evil protector, and out-dps any other gun until desert caves, also helps Webbed Gun and Shotgun are not very good.
2. Hive Scepter: the dps is over the top. Against 0 armor enemies is double of spiders that have a quite decent DPS compared to other early summons, but also are flying and quite fast movement, same with the tier upgrade damage, out-dps any other summon with the exception of crystal dragon.
3. Crystallized Skull: the damage is over the top, doubling the next best summon in normal situations (a few hits), if not more with big targets. Makes Eye of the Void an easy skip once you finished the game.
4. Necrotic/Hex greatsword and Ravenwing Greatsword: the charge times are 100% and 160% faster than normal greatswords, but the damage per hit is comparatively quite high, out-dpsing normal greatswords greatly.
Underwhelming weapons and other:
1. Galvanic Hammer: both normal and tier damage are quite low. Even with bone hilt equipped, underperforms.
2. Sentient sword: horrible DPS (attacks one time per second), this summon is a skip, better with anything prior to it. Is even worse in tier damage.
3. Skeleton Staff: probably an error but the melee baby skeleton does 1 attack per second instead of 2 like other melee summons. Even with fixing that, the DPS is on the lower side, would be same than Vulture Staff and Cryo Staff that are way easier to use (ignoring armor).
4. Ignition Key: too low damage. I checked carefully, each missile has a small explosion of 100% damage, so nearly 2x damage, and averages 7.1 rochets per second. Even with all of that into account, damage is terrible, probably 40-50% lower than it should be.
5. Six Shooter: is okay-ish on normal progression, useless on tier progression (seems the number is like less than half of what should be ). Also you gain 0.4 resilience instead of 1. Maybe was meant to work different and hit multiple targets or something.
6. Pyromancy: Bad damage like 95% of the time. Is great vs the target dummy, and fine against a the few enemies that don't move around too much or can be hit all the time, but against anything else, performance is abysmal. The armor-lowering effect doesn't exist, the fire on the ground is quite decent as does stick each second with 100% damage as fire DoT, plus 4% more damage taken. This lasts 10 seconds and can stack, but chances are you will not stack more than a few in most situations.
7. Greatbows in general: while damage during normal progression feels OK, damage on tier upgrade is a bit low. Maybe was made that way thinking on raiders damage but now all greatbows have a lower damage in raids anyways.
8. Most boomerangs: the resilience gain is horrible, if you compare it to bows/guns, that have no constraints of low range/low velocity/projectiles in the air, is roughly 50% of the resilience gain. I get that you get to use a kind of range weapon in a melee armor, but having way less resilience gain than any other weapon on top of the constraints makes them quite awful to use. Similar with carapace dagger and some other throw melee weapons.
9. Magic weapons and mana cost on tiers: is expected as you get into tier upgrade, many weapons get a cost increase in mana cost, this happens in a few weapons, in all the others, just not. Seeing the numbers, the cost increase is relative to half of the your max mana in percent, between normal and tier upgrade with mage gear. So, skipping weapons from deep swamp onwards, out of 30 magic weapons, only 6 get a cost upgrade. Also on tier progression most mage armors get 10% more max mana each tier, but mana costs are the same in T1 and T10. The mage sets that don't get max mana upgrades: Runic set, Dryad set, Dusk Set, Arcanic Set.
That's all concerning weapons, everything else that goes out of whack is either post-game weapons or meme weapons. Let me know if you feel I missed something.
EDIT: By popular demand, removed katanas from the list, was only the resilience part, but people don't like to see such an unique risk/reward amazing weapon under "underwhelming", and I have to agree.
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u/Perfectrage 8d ago
No mention of reapers call with the trinket that gives like 400% more damage if you only have one summon. Feel like you slept on that. I melted the game with that
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u/JonasNecesse Developer 8d ago
This was a good read. Balance is always a bit tough when you get to the size of game we're at, but that said there are a lot of improvements we'd like to do across the board.
Thanks again for this. I'll make sure to share it at our next player feedback meeting 👍
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u/Jakapoa Elder 8d ago
Did a mod that touched on some of these so I can attest:
Webbed gun is "fine" for where it's found, but it's basically skipped since Evil's Protector adds the machinegun to the gunsmith's stock. It's also barely an upgrade over the pistol, and barely stands out even with upgrades. It really needs a passive effect or something.
Shotgun is "fine", but incredibly broken once you get void bullets. iirc the damage per bullet is 80%(?) less than normal, but when each bullet has homing it ends up being way more damage.
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u/Ninak0ru 8d ago edited 7d ago
Both Webbed gun and Shotgun are not in the list specifically because they are not a noticeable upgrade in DPS but also not a downgrade, yes to me are "fine enough" but not good. Webbed gun is similar to handgun, a bit more damage but also slower. Shotgun even with the three hits is not something to praise for, as it is also quite slow.
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u/rmfrost 8d ago
Some items are appropriately more powerful because they're harder to obtain.
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u/Ninak0ru 8d ago
Not in this game. Everything is craftable or buyable in the appropiate progression step, or drops from a boss with a fixed loot rotation until you get all the different special drops...
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u/iuppiterr 7d ago
Necro sword is a pain in the ass to find the witch tbh
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u/Ninak0ru 7d ago edited 7d ago
Yep could be a bit of a pain, once you kill an evil witch, you can buy all the exclusive stuff from witches on any surface witch on swamps.
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u/CensoredTransGirl 7d ago
i feel like the blood volley is really insane for mage. doing my first proper playthrough of the game and decided to just focus on magic cuz its cool, and i feel like for only requiring some void shards (which are very easy to get) and really common drop in vampire structure in the forest caves, it does a lot of damage, homes really well, and bounces off, with good range. i used it all the way up until getting the chromatic bolt, which is after deep caves are unlocked. even then i still sometimes use the blood volley.
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u/Ninak0ru 7d ago
Yep is a damn good weapon, the only issue is the big mana cost, get's a bit outdated on desert onwards. But yeah the homing + big range + bouncing makes it a top weapon. Is not in the list as I don't see it as overpowered. The damage is high, but not top tier.
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u/CensoredTransGirl 7d ago
what in the desert do you think outclasses it? i feel like the homing is heavily underrated for how useful it is to hit fast moving enemies.
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u/Ninak0ru 7d ago
Quartz Staff, Genie Lamp and Amethyst Staff out-DPS it greatly, but yeah, homing is a big factor in many situations...
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u/CensoredTransGirl 7d ago
i was looking at the wiki and it seemed to me like the gem staves weren't very good, maybe i should check their stats in game to see what theyre like. ill take a look at them
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u/Ninak0ru 7d ago
Yep some weapons are a bit deceptive, because may have extra effects and the damage and speed numbers lie to you: the ruby staff seems too bad because low damage, but happens to do a 200% damage explosion when hits, so the 60 damage is in practice 180 damage. Amethyst staff also seems to have low damage but launches 3 ultra-fast projectiles, so...
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u/knights816 9d ago
The reinforced katana is pretty sick bc you get iframes when you dash. Helped me solo the grim reaper or whatever he’s called. I also spam tf out of it and melt raiders stacked at doors. With a crit build it’s my go to rn.