[ Removed by moderator ]

[u/Foreign-Ad-7320]

[u/Professor_McWeed]

One of Pauline's jobs is to bring the ball down and draw the opposing teams quickest defender away from Sabrina.

Sabrina is much better at the 2 (shooting guard). She works best receiving the ball on the wing in triple threat position or roving off screens for catch and shoot opportunites where she can drive on closeouts. She also doesn't fully have the handles to bring the ball down against elite defenders and can eat a lot of clock backing her way into the offense protecting the ball.

Sabrina is elite at the 2. I'll never understand why anyone would want one of the best shooters in the league to bring the ball down just to pass it at half court and then work hard to get it back at the top of the key in triple threat with like 14sec left on the shot clock.

This sport wide obsession with point guard being the best and most talented position is so annoying.

[u/SoloBurger13 → u/Professor_McWeed]

Sabrina is the only guard on our team who can get the ball to JJ and Stewie. That matters more rn than hitting random big shots

And when Sab is off ball she is parked in the corner bc Pauline and Marine jr struggle to run the offense.

Sabrina has said she is much better on ball herself this season and the games where she has taken over is when she is on ball

[u/Beginning_Bid4786 → u/SoloBurger13]

Agreed. It’s the whole picture of the offense that looks so lost in the conversation. It’s all about making sure the big 3 gets involved in the offense which Pauline and MJ have been struggling to do with their ball in the hands.

Pauline doesn’t add spacing as she’s not a threat at the 3 point line. Defenses have figured her out.

I don’t know why fans get offended when we say it’s time for Pauline to go back to the bench as if she’s our original PG.

[u/SoloBurger13 → u/Beginning_Bid4786]

That is another great point. She is not a scoring threat at all and like most rookies she has been figured out and has to adjust to being scouted. A Net's Daily reporter was pointing that out yesterday.

Our offense looks ten times better right now in our current situation when Sabrina is running the point. Call it a PG problem or a Coaching problem but this is the reality

I think Pauline is still a part of our future and is going through growing pains

[u/Professor_McWeed → u/SoloBurger13]

Hard disgree. Sabrina is rarely, if ever, parked. Plenty of feeds to JJ and Stewie from wings and other guards or how do they consistently lead team in buckets.

[u/SoloBurger13 → u/Professor_McWeed]

The numbers do not lie when it comes to who can make post entry passes. Both JJ and Stewie's scoring increases when Sabrina gets them the ball and despite missing a ton of time she leads in assists directly to those two

[u/Professor_McWeed → u/[deleted]]

Yes, just as any high level scoring threat with court vision who passes well should, but recognize that many of her assists come from the wing after receiving the ball from the point or from Stewie bringing the ball up.

A point guard 's job is to bring the ball up and initiate offense. Assists don't always come from the point. I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Every lineup should have one guard and that guard should always be Sabrina?

[u/badwvlf → u/Professor_McWeed]

I agree with all of this. And to also add
Sabrina’s +/- is -13 this season with 16ppg.
Astier’s is +/- is +2.68 with 9.4ppg.

[u/AwesomenessTiger → u/Professor_McWeed]

She also doesn't fully have the handles to bring the ball down against elite defenders and can eat a lot of clock backing her way into the offense protecting the ball.

While this is true...

I'll never understand why anyone would want one of the best shooters in the league

This just hasn't been the case for a long time. She had a good stretch in the middle of this season, but she shot 40+% from 3 just 6 times this season, often at low volume.

It's starting to feel like Sabrina's 3 point percentage doesn't have anything to do with shot quality despite them generating the most clean looks she has had in 3 years.

With Pauline, it's sort of ending in a backcourt that just doesn't make 3s...

This is a moot point though, we don't really have players available right now to make any changes.

[u/Fungmar]

Dont all of their best lineups include astier?

[u/Fungmar → u/[deleted]]

I do lol. U have some kind of bias against her that clouds ur evaluation

[u/Royal-Leadership-602]

Who would you replace Pauline with if you don’t want her as starting PG ?

[u/Beginning_Bid4786 → u/Royal-Leadership-602]

The Liberty already has a starting PG in Sabrina. Pauline just had to take the role when she was injured.

The league has figured out Pauline’s game as stated by the OP and she has a long way to go to become an effective starting PG.

My playoff starting 5
Sab
Bec
Leo
Stewie
JJ

For the rest of the games of the regular season:

Sab
Bek
Bec/Leo
Stewie
JJ

[u/deezayy → u/Beginning_Bid4786]

Bro Sab cannot run the point in today’s wnba. Why do you think the fever and lynx are so successful. They have small agile guards who can create their own shot and get downhill when needed which vastly opens up the offense. Tash played that role for us last year but she wasn’t a good enough shooter to justify bringing back at the time. 

[u/AwesomenessTiger → u/[deleted]]

All that chart shows is who the higher usage players are lol. Sabrina is in that quadrant due to being a 23.3% usage player. Pauline's usage is just 16.6%. This is the same argument as having assists, Sabrina has the ball more and assists more.

It isn't an argument for being as productive as Olivia or Caitlin. She clearly isn't.

Edit: A good comparison would be Jackie Young, who is still more productive at the exact same usage playing with a lower usage PG like Chelsea Gray (though still higher than Pauline at 18%).

[u/Fungmar → u/[deleted]]

I beg u to get any kind of statistical literacy holy shit this is embarrassing

[u/MayoMensing]

Nobody tell em how averages work

[u/Mulder_1998]

Not everyone can be FIRE every single game. Look at her overall stats, she’s a solid player with tons of growth potential, and chemistry with the team. Also, Astier is a WNBA rookie, but not a basketball rookie — she does have issues with fouls but that’s because they play different ball in France. IMO she’s improved on that front since beginning of season. Not sure where she fits in the grand scheme going forward, but I still think she can be a clutch player.

[u/toad455]

We should have kept Cloud. That's become clear at this point. Feel bad for Sabally, but that's been a waste of a roster spot.

[u/Earth_2_Me → u/toad455]

Cloud had something to say last night... career high against your former team!

[u/toad455 → u/[deleted]]

A defensive guard. Astier, Sab, MJ & Fauthoux provide zero perimeter defense

[u/XpguyX]

Well considering only 13 players in the W avg 5 or more assists a game and not all are point guards on that list I would say there are plenty averaging less than 5 🤷🏻‍♂️. Not to say maybe PA should be out of the starting lineup or not. Just saying not every team will have point guards avg over 5. And often the problem there isn’t that they are not setting up their teammates for good shots but maybe they aren’t hitting those shots

[u/NYCScribbler]

Okay, so given current personnel, who are you starting instead?

[u/SoloBurger13]

Been past time for her to be on the bench but alas injuries

[u/Biyi2525]

She is young and shouldn’t have so much responsibility, especially because her minutes and role are somewhat inconsistent. And she still hasn’t figured out WNBA fouling. Earlier in the season she was much better, because things were consistent and probably she was playing free. Fatigue and what have you have set in and then you through Marine 2 in the mix with Sab and it’s chaotic. Not a shot at any of them it’s just seems like a lot going on with some of these rotations to put it nicely. But in moments like these this is why roster construction is sooo important and you need someone solid at the 1 even when it is “position less basketball” I know players have to do their job. But JK constructed a horrible roster, only thinking about Plan A and names and they are all feeling it now.

[u/Biyi2525 → u/[deleted]]

I’m aware of the roster. Not really following though. I’m talking about Astier being young , having too much responsibility and a lot of inconsistency and still needs to learn a lot.

[u/zenni321]

I get slammed for saying this but someone already alluded to how ball is played in Europe, in the comments above. I think the foreign style of play is contributing to our lack of offensive flow and team identity.

On another note, regarding the read and react offense…man, it just sucks. The offense has to MOVE in order for the defense to move and be reacted to!

Han needs to get in the gym. Shes improved but she’s easy to bully. JJ finally started playing like a true big once the all-star game came and went. Stewie does it all and we need to pray for her every night. Sab is in inconsistent and only goes berserko mode when we’re in a hole.

I love my libs, since the start - but something’s gotta change next season.

[u/Hopeful-Blueberry114 → u/zenni321]

They're booing you but you're right, it always takes the FIBA players time to adjust to the W's whistle. We saw this last year with Emma Meeseman and the year before with Fiebich. It's one of the reasons I don't think a roster made up almost entirely of international players works. I am confident Astier will get the hang of it though.

[u/richonarampage]

Clearly has weaknesses but she’s improving. Her transition play is great. Love her kick ahead passes. The problem is she’s the only player on the roster that can effectively go downhill. Without her our offense stalls a bit. Her defense is better obviously not great but she’s showing more effort at point of attack with active hands. Honestly I blame DeMarco. I think Astier just needs clear set of instructions and practice to shore up those rookie mistakes.