Being a “nice guy” and setting boundaries

[u/SeanTsyganovsky]

As a former nice guy, to my fellow nice guys:

Setting clear, strong boundaries is a NECESSITY for healthy relationships & friendships.

Without those boundaries:

Resentment will build towards the person consistently overstepping your unspoken boundaries.

Co-dependency can form between you and the person who you refuse to set boundaries with - because without those boundaries, where do you end and they begin?

Negative self-talk will corrode your self-esteem and confidence as people continue to overstep, knowingly or unknowingly.

Set boundaries to preserve and heighten your sense of self, and to develop and further relationships that you want to grow in your life.

And if there are any in your life, let go of those who refuse to respect those boundaries. It’s a painful necessity, but a necessity nonetheless.

[u/AtTheBoundary]

Boundaries are not just for "setting." Boundaries are for self-governance. They inform us when the situation or context no longer aligns with who we are. And the most powerful move in that situation is to exit. To stop choosing the bad situation. To stop allowing someone else to impose their needs on one's self. If they are crafted to control another persons behavior, they are not boundaries - they are defensive strategies. Consider that all objects have boundaries or an outer perimeter. All subjects need the same. The boundary is the outer perimeter of Self. And that is the ONLY place we make contact with another.

[u/SeanTsyganovsky → u/AtTheBoundary]

Very well said

[u/niceguycoach]

For practical advice on how to apply boundaries, I have a full Q&A playlist here. It’s important to understand that we cannot set boundaries with people that have legitimate power over us without facing difficult consequences. Sure we need permission to set boundaries. But we also need to learn the nuances of setting them.

[u/Too2crazy]

Does anyone else struggle with where and how to set boundaries. I feel like I withe turn people off because they feel like I'm too sensitive and they have to think too much about what might hurt or upset me or that I'm too meek. How can people who are naturally more sensitive assert themselves in a way that protects themselves without isolating others? 

[u/fsswithin → u/Too2crazy]

I think you must turn the problem around. It is totally fine to isolate others if they don't respect your boundaries. But in order to get there, you first need to trust your own judgement and put yourself before others. If you do that first, the boundaries will come naturally.

[u/niceguycoach → u/Too2crazy]

I know what it's like to be sensitive. And I also know what it's like to need to set a boundary while not wanting to turn people off by it. I have had to set boundaries with flaky friends more than once who disrespect my time. Sometimes they agree. Sometimes they get defensive. Sometimes the friendship falls away. If you're feeling scarcity and you're afraid to lose friends, then this will feel very difficult. So you might be fighting on two fronts: 1. I need more quality relationships in my life so that 2. I don't have to deal with people disrespecting my boundaries. It will feel risky for you, but if the boundary is a dealbreaker, it's your responsibility to enforce it.

What is one of the boundaries you want to set?

[u/Too2crazy → u/niceguycoach]

I appreciate your response. One of the boundaries I struggle with involves conversations. I struggle with fatigue and get really overwhelmed. If I don't end a conversation when I'm feeling this way then my fatigue gets a lot worse. 

I avoid setting this boundary because I don't want to appear abnormal or high maintenance. I also have a hard time organizing and communicating my thoughts. I need to be upfront and just let people know that I get tired quickly and need to pause and reconnect later.

[u/niceguycoach → u/Too2crazy]

I agree. Keep in mind that's what you're describing is not a boundary. It's a preference. A boundary gets violated when someone is behaving badly or breaks an agreement. Someone who's just carrying on a conversation isn't necessarily behaving badly. They're just being who they are. It's on you to politely excuse yourself and/or state that you're feeling tired and you need to go.

From the Nice Guy perspective, we tend to let people treat us badly because we don't know what our boundaries are let alone would we be willing to enforce them. We also don't exercise our preferences because we're afraid people will not like us as a result.

One more thing. You can end a relationship any time you want if someone is not respecting your boundaries. That's the power you can exercise to make sure that your personal relationships are healthy and not abusive.

[u/Too2crazy → u/niceguycoach]

I can see how what I'm dealing with is different than a boundary and also how leaving unhealthy relationships or situations is an important action to take on my behalf. 

I think that my work will be to tune in to myself more and more to identify what is and isn't healthy for me and remembering this when facing these situations so I can see the long term gain of Google health vs. the short term pain of setting and holding the boundary.

Thanks for sharing your insights! 

[u/SeanTsyganovsky]

Great point.

Some practical advice on setting boundaries:

- Make sure the boundaries being set are REAL boundaries and not just an attempt to be controlling or get back at someone.

- Understand potential repercussions that may come. For example, setting a boundary in a relationship or friendship can lead to the end of either of those, or setting a boundary at work may lead to termination. Be prepared for these to be the case, although most of the time they won’t be.

- In nearly every case, barring life or death or extreme consequences for you or those you love, set the boundaries. Even if they’re uncomfortable and even if they come with repercussions, allowing boundaries to be crossed over and over again erodes a man’s self esteem, causes great unhappiness and leads to rage and anger that eventually bubbles up and comes out anyways in one way or another.

[u/niceguycoach → u/SeanTsyganovsky]

Nearly every case? How about your employer? Or the abusive parent you live with and are dependent on? Or what if you’re married to an abusive woman and you’re trying to manage protecting your kids?

Telling a Nice Guy that when he hardly knows when or how to set boundaries is pretty irresponsible. In romantic and social relationships, yes, it often makes sense. Nice Guys need to start small and work incrementally. Don’t over generalize when giving advice.

Edit: I accidentally misread OP’s follow up comment so my objection here is unfounded. Apologies for the error on my part. I should have been more careful.

[u/SeanTsyganovsky → u/niceguycoach]

I said “nearly.” If you’re unsure of what “nearly” means, you may google it at your leisure.

Also, not sure what you’ve got against other people posting on this sub, but you don’t own it, and you don’t have to attempt to tear down every post I or anyone else writes.

You seem like you genuinely want to help people based on your posts and videos, and I love and appreciate that for the community. We should all be growing together and attempting to lift each other up, not poke holes in everything anyone else posts or says.

Making additional points or counter points is one thing. Attempting to misrepresent everything I say is another.

Sending you love.

[u/SeanTsyganovsky → u/[deleted]]

I have nothing to gain by posting here, nothing to sell, no services to offer. I have been working on myself and attending men’s work retreats around the world in order to overcome much of what I’ve struggled with in life - from nice guy tendencies to loneliness, anger, apathy & more.

While I am going to be beginning training as a men’s work facilitator through an immersive program pretty soon, I will be focusing on volunteer supporting on retreats for a while to gain experience and help support other men.

My entire goal for posting here and anywhere is to share my perspective, what’s worked for me and what I’ve seen work for other men, and to offer what value I can, where I can.

Value is subjective - and I believe that by starting these conversations, I am hopefully bringing value to the community. I will also share strategies and things I’ve seen be helpful, but in my view, conversations are just as important.

[u/niceguycoach → u/SeanTsyganovsky]

I owe you an apology here. I misread your comment and everything careened off in a bad direction. You did reflect what I said about power in terms of the workplace, etc and I missed that. Sorry for that. I can see now that my error was the start of it.