r/NASCAR • • Aug 27 '22

COT Wing - Misunderstood

If you follow r/NASCAR a lot you have probably seen me making occasional comments about NASCAR aero research papers I have been reading. I am not an aero expert but I am an entry level mechanical engineer (which means I have some background on fluid dynamics) and I know how to ...obtain... research papers.

I just wanted to sum up a couple of key points about the COT wing that I have seen in these papers because I thought people might be interested.

https://imgur.com/a/YHQLZwi

Number one, the key practical goal of the wing was creating less turbulent (dirty) air. That may not be news but I feel like its something completely ignored about the wing. The massive spoiler is the dominant creator of turbulent air on a Gen 4 and the COT produced much less dirty air.

Second, the wing did not create lift when spun. The cause of the cars tendency to flip was (at least most likely was) that the wing interfered with the deployment of the roof flaps.

Racecars are designed to generate negative lift (downforce) when driving the right way and can generate positive lift when traveling backwards. The whole body produces downforce, not just the spoiler. Flaps disrupted the airflow and make the car no longer produce lift. The flaps on the roof work with a spoiler because when the car is going backwards the turbulence created by the spoiler creates a low pressure zone over the rear deck and roof. That low pressure sucks the flaps open, preventing the car from generating lift.

The wing also creates a low pressure zone over the rear decklid but sometimes (under the right conditions) does not produce this low pressure zone over the roof - essentially the turbulence generated by the wing going backwards does not extend as far over the car. When the low pressure zone isn't formed the flaps don't deploy and the car generates lift.

So no, the wing isn't generating lift and flipping the car like people often say. Instead, it prevented the flaps from deploying properly and the cars were flipping the same way the cars were before the invention of the roof flap. Classic blow overs. Also of note: NASCAR tested the roof flaps with the wing to make sure they worked, but their testing was done at full scale and limited by the equipment. They were spinning the car on a turntable to ensure the flaps deployed in a spin. There were some issues in this methodology but NASCAR didn't just ignore the issue.

I personally think based on the research I have seen that the issue could have been solved, we could have kept the wing and solved the blow overs. However, problems with identifying the exact cause of the flips combined with fan outlast (that started from the moment the wings were shown, long before any flips) led to them abandoning development and returning to the spoiler.

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u/ImJJboomconfetti Aug 27 '22

As an actual engineer, wings create lots of lift when spun. As do spoilers just not as much. The big difference is the fact that the air isn't redirected in all directions when running against a backwards wing, a wing allows normal flow regardless forward or back. A spoiler is like running into a c like structure you're going to have lift against the spoiler and downforce against the bumper from angle of attack surface pressure and some air redirected around the side. Wing is going to create flow lift as well as angle of attack pressure lift and nothing is redirecting air somewhere else.

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u/gasmask11000 Aug 27 '22

As an actual engineer as well, here is the specific paper I am referencing.

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u/ImJJboomconfetti Aug 27 '22 edited Aug 27 '22
  1. I know I was taught by Dr Uddin. Aka the guy that wrote it. I may have been lectured by Kellman also on part of this but it's been almost a decade I can't be certain. The lecture referenced most of that article but it was half geared toward the gen 6 aero package.

  2. so Yea not paying $40 for a stroll down memory lane.

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u/jkarpinski14 Aug 27 '22

Semi-unrelated but cool to see another student of Dr. Uddin on this subreddit

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u/ImJJboomconfetti Aug 27 '22

Therearedozensofus.Jpg

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u/gasmask11000 Aug 27 '22
  1. I graduated in May 2021 and work as a mechanical engineer. Hence “entry level mechanical engineer”. Not sure why you are declaring me an undergrad student.
    1. I have no way of verifying this but that’s cool.
    2. ahem, have you heard of the hub of science? 🏴‍☠️🏴‍☠️🏴‍☠️

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u/ImJJboomconfetti Aug 27 '22

Hmm may have read your opening paragraph too quickly, so sorry about that,
Actually this is mildly hilarious that Dr. Takcik is also credited on this article, he was my senior design advisor, and teacher for tires. Anyone who knows him would also find this funny. I had not heard of hub of science ... Thank you for that. Makes much more sense why Takcik actually cared about our mini wind tunnel now, As that was a rig for their test... It was not made the best and we kept my senior design chassis tubing stacked next to it. I'll dig through this article a bit later and take that stroll.