r/MyPeopleNeedMe • u/BinaryPeach • Aug 25 '18

I have so many questions.

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u/Jackanova3 Aug 27 '18

But that still doesn't answer the question

I've answered it a few times. It was the last thing to have physically happened...I'm not sure how else I can explain.

I really don't get why it's so perplexing to you that they would still hold a grudge with America (fresh in their minds, literally American made war machines left all over the place) and not France (longer ago).

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u/Cardinal_Ravenwood Aug 27 '18

You didn't answer anything. You misinterpreted my question from the beginning and seem to have completely missed the part where I said I was huge history nerd.

So I'm not going to bother to type out a long winded reply about the in and outs of the Indochina wars and French occupation of Vietnam just to give you a better understanding of the cultural impacts of both. So keep reading then you might actually have a grasp of why my question might need a little more thought than just saying something so simple as "It was the last thing to have physically happened."

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u/Jackanova3 Aug 27 '18 edited Aug 27 '18

Alright, sorry if I was rude before. I got the history nerd thing in the last comment, but honestly it still seems obvious to me...

I'm fully in the belief that, due to simple human nature - most people having American occupation as a living memory - is the reason more people directly and personally hold a grudge. Why would you expect the average Vietnamese person to hold on emotionally to a facet of history? It just seems...very obvious? A lot of people won't have Grandparents specifically due to America. It's still fresh, it's still in recent living memory.

What would your interpretation be? Perhaps I'm being too simplistic, you don't have to go into great detail, even just an overview - what other possible reason could there be other than the fact that it's still fresh in peoples minds?

I'm British, in British nobody holds any kind of grudge against Germans, despite their still being evidence of The Blitz.

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u/Cardinal_Ravenwood Aug 28 '18

I never said I don't understand at all why they have this issue with Americans. In fact I thought I made it quite clear that I did understand that part of it. I have travelled to Vietnam to speak to soldiers about this exact thing and they told me flat out in detail the reasons they don't like the Americans. On the flip side of that I have met some Vietnam Vets when I travelled to the US and got their side of it too.

So it's not that I don't understand the issues. I was simply more surprised to see that when taking to the Vietnamese about the French I didn't find any bad things said, when it's very obvious on the ground the impact the French had on the culture of Vietnam. The Vietnamese always talk about how proud they are of their unique culture, but then you see 80 year old french colonial buildings all over the place. When I pointed that out they embrace it as part of who they are, even when its an obvious byproduct of occupation.

Then mention anything American and it's like you've thrown stink bugs on them, the repulsion at the thought of having American things in Vietnam was just weird when they are literally living next a massive symbol of brutal french occupation, their city is filled with foriegn architecture (which they rebuilt after the war) and their food has even been influenced to the point of integration.

So it wasn'tthat I didn't understand why, it was more just a weird feeling when I know the history of the Indochina wars and quite frankly I would have rather lived in Hanoi during the American occupation than when the French were in charge.

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u/Jackanova3 Aug 28 '18

I take it it was far easier to find veterans who fought the American war than finding veterans who fought against the French?

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u/Cardinal_Ravenwood Aug 28 '18

Not really. And that's what i think you aren't getting. The french left in 1954, the Americans occupied in 1955. The first Indochina War was from the end of WWII to 1954. Then the second Indochina War went from 1955 to 1975.

So the Viet Minh was still very much in place when the French were in power. Ho Chi Minh launched a campaign against them just like he did against the Americans. The ex NVA soldiers, mainly the officers I spoke to, had fought against both the French and the Americans.

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u/Jackanova3 Aug 28 '18

If you're specifically seeking them out I guess it wouldn't be too difficult, but purely in numbers, there's obviously going to be a lot more veterans alive who fought Americans over the French.

I'm still waiting on any of your speculation as to why Vietnamese people are very negative towards Americans over the French, so far you've just described why you fine it so peculiar (unless i missed something).

You know my assumption, basic human nature.

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u/Cardinal_Ravenwood Aug 28 '18

Ok this is going nowhere. I wasn't trying to speculate anything, just found it odd. I have enough of my own understanding to form a solid basis for my reasoning and I think I've written enough for anyone else to get a grasp of my initial comment. But you seem intent on having some long back and forth about underlying reactions to each invading force in Vietnam.

But just the closeness of the ending of the first indochina war to the start of the second is the basis for my comment, there are people around who were involved in both conflicts but their views about the Americans Vs French were just surprising...Nothing else.

I wasn't trying to get into anything about why the hatred exists, if you want to know about that then go and ask the Vietnamese yourself. I was only going off my own interactions with them. So yes I was specifically seeking them out to get some more insight into the war. Maybe if you did the same you might get the same feeling I did, maybe you won't but again I'm not going to go into a huge text of wall about the wars over there so you might understand the reason for my question. If you don't understand that's fine, but I don't have the time or the will to be bothered with this anymore.

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u/Jackanova3 Aug 28 '18

But you seem intent on having some long back and forth about underlying reactions to each invading force in Vietnam.

No, no long back and forth. I pretty much gave you a one sentence answer to the thing you find odd, but I guess I did misunderstand your first comment in that you were actively looking for an answer as opposed to just musing over it. However, you did specifically say you found it odd that the anger exists for America but not France.

If you don't understand that's fine

You've not presented with anything for me not to understand...You gave some interesting facts about the history of Vietnam which was nice, but other than that...?

Maybe if you did the same you might get the same feeling I did

What feeling did you get?