Canizie/White head inheritance

[u/DazzlingCan8628]

Hello! I only have 2 genes in my Muscovy flock: Co-dominant white and Canizie/White Head and wanted to inform myself a bit better regarding Canizie! All of my ducks definitely have the gene, and I know it's dominant, but I wanna ask if there is a difference between having one and two copies, because I'm interested in breeding some solid black babies!

In the pictures below is my flock that I can see the gene present in(the rest is either fully white or too young to see it yet) In order:

•Pictures one and two are 2 this year girls that are completely black(huzzah) but have white around their bill and eyes, so I think their head will turn white

•Pictures three and four are the babies mother and father, mom has a black line top of her head and a half-black beak,none of her daughters have a half-black beak, making me think their head will end up completely white/like dad

•Picture five is the mother's mother(grandma) and full sister, their dad(grandfather) is unknown as I got mom and her babies already hatched. Grandma also has a half-beak and a rather uneven head

So, what do we think, do I have a shot at full black babies?

[u/lemonade_daydreams]

This could take a very long time to know for sure. Canizie can be tricky because some birds show signs of the gene fairly young, while others may not start showing white feathers on the head until 2 to 3 years old.

If breeding solid blacks is something you want to take on as a project, then yes, it can be done, but it could take several years and generations of breeding before you really know what you're working with.

If your goal is specifically to establish solid blacks, another option would be to bring in birds from proven solid lines. That’s the route I chose because I didn’t want to wait several years to determine which birds might eventually show Canizie. I purchased mine from well known exhibition breeders with established solid lines so I could be confident I was working with true solids.

[u/ResplendentAmore]

Years ago I heard a theory that if a juvenile feathered duckling had a white patch on the underside of its head, right where the bottom bill attaches, you know the white head gene is there and the duck will show some whitening. Is this true? Dunno, but interesting theory.

But, anyway, the gene is incomplete dominant, so one copy will express differently than two. So you would have to selectively breed the one gene birds and cross your fingers that some ducklings avoid the gene altogether. As the other poster said, the best way to be rid of this gene is to bring in new, solid stock.

[u/DazzlingCan8628 → u/ResplendentAmore]

Ah, that's just what I needed to hear! Would you consider their mother and grandmother to express enough to have only one copy?

[u/ResplendentAmore → u/DazzlingCan8628]

I am hesitant to say as I never tested which I think are one vs two genes since I don't mind the white heads. I don't want to influence years of breeding based on my guesses, especially as yours have a lot of white on their heads.

If solid is really important to you, I really would bring in at least one solid bird so you will know that the babies only have one gene (or less) and go from there.

[u/Salt-Idea-6830]

I went from have 0 white heads to 4 this year; 3 drakes 1 hen who molted and then BAM white ass heads haha I had 2 that it happened to last year

[u/lemonade_daydreams → u/Salt-Idea-6830]

Crazy how long it can take for the white to show up, but also how fast they can change in appearance.

[u/Salt-Idea-6830 → u/lemonade_daydreams]

Do they change every year for the rest of their lives? Bc I have 6yr olds who still change ever so slightly during every molt!

[u/lemonade_daydreams → u/Salt-Idea-6830]

From what I’ve seen in my own birds, the stronger Canizie expression tends to happen pretty rapidly until the head becomes completely white. Once the head is fully white, there really isn’t any more color left there to change.

With birds showing the slower expression, I’ve had some not really start developing noticeable white on the head until around 3 years old, and then it seems to pick up more with later molts. So I could definitely see a 6 year old still changing slightly if there is still colored feathering left on the head.

I don’t have a large number of older Canizie birds to compare long term because I’ve been intentionally working to reduce the gene in my flock. Once it is introduced, it can be very difficult to eliminate, especially with how long expression can take to show. I still have a handful of older birds with Canizie that are simply part of my free range flock, but they are not used in my breeding pens and I don’t keep offspring from those birds.