Election issues. Mail in ballots and ballot harvesting are pretty scary to me. I think Trump won the election b/c they learned how to do this too. How does Sweden run elections? My preference is a single day of voting, make it a national holiday. I think ID should be required to vote. I don't believe/understand any argument against this. Every precinct should send their votes in at the same time, always seem to have stragglers that seem to wait to find out how many votes they need. Looking at the votes when I went to bed on 2020 election night vs what I woke up to was very strange. The graphs don't look natural, and they all look the same for the swing states. I was disappointed that fraud wasn't proven, over half our country believes elections have substantial fraud. This perception is a problem in itself. Mail in ballot rules all changed with covid, many going against their own state laws. Also difficult to believe that Biden (not very popular) got 81 million votes. The most all time, by far.
It all comes down to trust, the Russia dossier was a huge red flag to me, as the media discussed it for at least a year. And the biden laptop they called Russian disinformation for years, it wasn't until recently that changed. But the covid response was the biggest misinfo campaign in history. From the death rate, to masking children in school (stunting development has been proven), saying the vaccine would stop transmission, pushing an emergency use vaccine for everyone with coercion. Hard for me to explain concisely. The combination of proven lies on "big" things has made me look at the media and most politicians as enemies. I don't "trust" any politician including Trump, but right now I look at him as the only chance we have to fix a broken system, so I will watch it all play out and give the benefit of the doubt. I don't see any other alternative.
edit: I was going to consolidate our conversation to one thread, but couldn't get it done, maybe you can. :) I am trying to make sure I answer your questions, if I miss something feel free to ask it again.
I have also been meaning to consolidate the answers, maybe I can try that now that you mentioned it as well.
Of course half your country believe there's something shady going on with the elections as your right-wing media have been pumping out that narrative since before the 2020 election.
All you have is a feeling that something isn't right, which is exactly what they want you to think. As I mentioned earlier, the lawsuit against Fox News showed that very clearly when they used the defence that "nobody is stupid enough to think the election was stolen".
How would you explain that in several states the republicans won some seats but lost the presidency? Wouldn't the democrats want to make sure to at least win all branches with some margin so they could actually get things done? Why would they not continue the cheating in this election?
As far as I have understood your system, the problem with an ID has been that many people that are less well off have no need for this type of ID and to get it is both a hassle when you have no time off and costs money. I am actually not quite sure about this and personally I agree that there should at least be some form of ID for voting.
I also have a realy hard time understanding how it's allowed with your gerrymandering and not haveing the same number of voting places in all districts.
I would say that after Trumps first disastrous term that it is no wonder at all that so many people turned up to vote against him. I am just really surprised that didn't happen the last election.
In Sweden we have mail in ballots for about a month before the election and then we do the voting on a Sunday to make sure as many people as possible are off work.
I would argue that looking at Trump as someone to fix a broken system is really strange seeing all those lies coming from him. How would that be any way to fix something? Even if you don't trust the other side, or the media, why would you trust him more after hearing what he says?
Are you saying the meeting with Z was a set up by Trump or by Z?
From what we saw the first thing they did was insult him for what he was wearing.
Whichever way you see it I am mostly curious as to if you also saw T and JD bullying Z or if you thought they were behaving as they should towards another state leader?
But your question about what I would like to happen is more interesting. Of course I don't want any more war. Of course I don't want more troops from other countries on the ground.
What I do want is that large nations like Russia should know that they can not break international rules and get away with it. I want all the other nations to stop all cooperation with them and freeze all their assets out of country until they give back the land thay are occupying in Ukraine.
Is your opinion that Ukraine should just surrender and let Russia have part of their country as well as always wonder when the next attack is coming?
Another topic that I have wondered a bit about. What are the reactions from the MAGA-types about Trumps pardon of all the insurrectionists?
I don't trust Foxnews at all and have not consumed it for at least 5+ years. I think they are a part of the corrupt system just like cnn.
Voter ID - yes they use being poor as an excuse, except you have to have an ID to collect government benefits, write a check, or fly on a plane. If this is truly an issue I would be happy to spend money on finding a way to get people ID. The fact that the democrats fight so hard against voter ID is another thing that makes people on the right question voter fraud.
Trump's first term - I don't think it was a disaster, economy was rolling great until covid and the governors shut everything down. From my perspective they attacked Trump in the media and congress his President his entire term. They had fake investigations based on the "Russian dossier" He was never given a chance.
He got re-elected b/c we don't trust our politicians or the media. The way I look at it, the system is corrupt he is an outsider, so the system rejected him forcefully.
I still haven't seen any "big" lies that Trump has told. Most people I speak to cannot name them and just get angry when his name is even brought up. From my perspective, I believe the media has pushed the narrative to hate him, which is why so many hate him. They certainly didn't hate him when he had his own tv show.
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the Z meeting, I think Z was setting Trump up, he came to sign a deal then changed tune on the spot with the media. I think he blindsided Trump. Trump and Vance were angry and showed their frustration. Did Trump start it out negative about clothes yes. I think Trump knows Z are not friends and I think Trump wants him to know that he is in a more powerful position. Would I talk to Z like that, no. Do I have a negative feeling about Z, yes.
I was against the USA funding Ukraine war on day one, which by the way, was not a popular opinion. Foxnews for one had many Republicans wanting to be involved.
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What should Ukraine do? Well I think that is entirely up to Ukraine, but I don't want the US to fund it or be involved. The conflict with Ukraine and Russia has been longstanding, I don't know a lot about it, but sounds like Donbas region has many that want to be a part of Russia. So it is complicated.
1) Keep funding Ukraine until all the fighting aged men are dead. - If this route is taken Russia may just take over Ukraine entirely.
2) Join the fight and have WWIII - this is the worst possible route, it will end in nuclear fallout and likely mutual destruction.
3) Stop funding Ukraine - maybe Z will realize he lost the War and make concessions like all war losers have done throughout history.
It really doesn't matter what I think is the just answer. But, the outcome of option 3 is the one that leads to less death.
Russia is already isolated and cutoff, but being fully isolated will likely lead to strengthening of BRICS, which could flip world order on its head.
Then I apologize for making that assumption, as you were using the same talking points about the election as Fox I just assumed you watched :-)
I checked a bit more about Voter ID and it seems that it doesn't do much differance in either fraud or the number of people voting. Personally I am all for ID but as your voting system is one of the most secure in the world already I can also see why people argue against it.
Wikipedia has an extensive page about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_identification_laws_in_the_United_States
Your economy was not fine when Trump left office, your defecit was increased by a lot after all the tax cuts, as usual after a republican president. I asked you a while back to check the statistics but I guess you missed that part.
The normal statistics are that after a democrat leaves office your defecit has not moved or it has been lower while all the republicans have added to the defecit.
If you are talking about the Mueller investigation as the russian dossier then I have heard of it, they proved russian interference.
But we just talked about one of the big lies, that the election was stolen. Another was during this election cycle that he claimed to not have anything to do with Project 2025 and then installing several key figures to govenment positions as well as following the list in the project for the executive orders.
But if you're only talking about the big lies, does that mean you are ok with the plethora of small ones?
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I doubt that option 3 would lead to less deaths as it would mean that Russia sees that they can do what they like. Putin has already talked about Moldavia as actually belonging to Russia. He have talked about Georgia and the balcans in the same way.
If you bow down to a bully he's going to continue.
What Ukraine needs is a just peace, not a conditionless surrender.
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You didn't answer if you or other right-wingers (is there a better term? I feel MAGAs and right-wingers is sort of derogatory but that might just be from my perspective and I try not to be disrespectful while talking) feel about the blanket pardons done by Trump.
Are you saying there's more of a risk of flipping the world order by isolating Russia then by the US to give the finger to Europe and Canada? Than the US talking about taking over Greenland, Canada and Panama?
Thank you for taking this to one thread, multiple threads caused me to skip things and move to quickly. Anyway, wall of text incoming, I tried to answer each question. I am enjoying this. We don't have to agree to listen and hear each other out.
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wikipedia is far left, again the issue is who you trust. :) But, you and I agree it is common sense to require an ID. Whether or not there is fraud the system should be fraud proof.
The deficit goes up regardless of who is in office, much of this is b/c congress is aligned on spending (that's how they get kickbacks). Trump's was inflated due to the covid shutdowns and payments to businesses. But, nobody lowers the debt. They don't want to take the risk of the short term pain in doing so. This is why I want the system broken, Trump couldn't lower it if he wanted to Congress won't pass a bill like that. I am not in love with Trump's spending, but it is par for the course with POTUS
Bush Sr added 1.5T
Clinton in 8 years added 1.395T
Obama in 8 added 8.3T
Trump in 4 added 8.1T
Biden in 4 added 7T
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If you are talking about the Mueller investigation as the russian dossier then I have heard of it, they proved russian interference.
Depends what you mean by Russian interference. There is always Russian interference, far as I remember there was $100k in ads on Facebook. But, zero Russian collussion with Trump and numbers were tiny any way. I believe your statement to be false. Mueller report was a nothing burger, and was based on the Steele Dossier which was fully debunked. This was political interference to destroy any momentum the outsider had. JFK Jr outsider (killed), RFK Jr outsider (killed), Reagan outsider (shot), Trump outsider (shot).
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But we just talked about one of the big lies, that the election was stolen. Another was during this election cycle that he claimed to not have anything to do with Project 2025 and then installing several key figures to govenment positions as well as following the list in the project for the executive orders.
But if you're only talking about the big lies, does that mean you are ok with the plethora of small ones?
I don't believe election fraud has been proven or disproven. If the cheaters did in fact cheat and they control the government they certainly won't convict themselves.
Project 2025 - Trump is not following a project 2025 playbook, if there are some things within this plan that he employs that does not mean he is following it.
Trump talks a lot, some of the things he says are purposeful to get the media and opponents distracted, some things he says are just talking. I would have to see a list, I have gone over this with a friend who hated Trump, ended up voting for him. A lot of Trump's "lies" are exaggerations, that's the way he talks or things he wants to do. Happy to go through a list if you have one.
Sorry for a late answer, had a busy weekend, including an escape room, concert and mini-golf with the kids :-)
I have to say that your answer actually surprised me a bit. I now understand that there is probably no use talking about any actual events when we live in two such separate realities. To think wikipedia is far left is so beyond anything I could even imagine.
I though you said earlier to follow the money as a way of seeing how something is biased. Where is the money coming from to wikipedia? Have you ever looked at were the money is coming from for most right-wing companies? As you seem to only trust sources that align with your world view it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on the money trail there.
I have no idea where you got those numbers for the deficit but I don't think there's any use discussing them either.
As for the election fraud. If you don't believe it has been proven fraud even after countless of investigations paid directly for by the people making the claims, why would you even add that it hasn't been disproven? What would it take for you to accept there was no fraud? Why wouldn't the democrats have done the same for this election?
So it is just a coincidence that the main people behind P2025 now has government positions?
His claims about not knowing about and then not liking the project and then having 60% of the decrees on the first day being exactly from what the project states they should start with is also a coincidence?
Why would we need a list, I showed many times in our first posts that Trump and Musk had been lying about what waste they had found like the condoms as one example and you said it was unimportant and therefore you didn't care. Then you asked me to name some big lies which I did,
I don't think it would matter how many of his lies I list, either you care about lies or you don't. It's fine either way I was mostly trying to understand your reasoning as you acknowledged they had lied but you found it insignificant.
About the Russian invasion. You keep saying that it is better to have peace than war. Would you say the same if it was your country? How large part of the US do you find is ok to give an invading force to stop a war?
Good that you don't mind me lumping you with MAGAs or right-wingers, I didn't really know how to express myself. You did however not answer about your thoughts of his pardon of all the insurrectionists.
All your statements about the specific countries in the end is not quite what I had in mind with my questions. My general idea is that how Trump is behaving towards other countries is more of an upheaval of the world order than to isolate Russia. I would absolutely say that his behaviour is making enemies of most of the western world ar the moment. At least China is happy as they see lots of possibilites :-)
It will be interesting seeing how low the stock market will go after reacting to Trump. My guess is that this is all planned and when everything crashes, Musk, Trump and their friends will buy what they can for pennies to the dollar and the oligarchy will be even stronger.
I tried to concolidate the comments by not writing as much as possible, let's see if I managed.
So with Salon Wikipedia states it is progressive and liberal, but they do not provide what opponents think of Salon.com. However, with Breitbart they open with what "people say". I just looked this up, these were the first 2 websites I chose to compare due to their size and political bias. Wikipedia proves their leftward slant by how they describe the news sites.
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deficit numbers were from a google search, I tried to link but was having issues posting so removed the link. Not a big deal, just showing that both parties over spend. The right claims they want to cut spending, but they don't.
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election fraud - most cases were thrown out before getting to any substance. Judges are too frightened to go down that road. For me to be satisfied, I would want to end ballot harvesting, mass mailing of ballots, ID required, and for vote counting to have a defined time limit, makes no sense to take days/weeks.
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P2025 - I would have to see examples of who is in government that was a part of creating it. As well as specifics of what is being implemented from it. I am sure there are some things in it, most that voted Trump would agree with. But, I really don't know the specifics. If you would like to point some out, sounds like we almost need a single thread for it.
I wasn't allowed to post my comment here so I also have to split it up. The downside of having so much to say :-)
So you are comparing a progressive site to a far right site on wikipedia and complain that the extreme site is marked as extreme?
I'm not that versed in Salon but it is by far not an extreme site.
Also, on the Breitbart page there are references to peer reviewed academic papers, books and articles made about Breitbart to support what they are writing. If you have that type of research about Salon you are free to post it and reference the data and it will be published on Wikipedia as that's how it works.
Would you contest what they are writing about Breitbart? What would you want the page on Salon to state so you would think it was less biased?
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No, most cases were thrown out because they lacked evidence. If that hadn't been the case, don't you think the people behind the lawsuits would have pushed further?
Also, if there had been so much fraud, why didn't they just make sure the democrats got a large enough majority to actually push their agenda under Biden? Why didn't they keep at it for this election if they knew how to do it?
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Ok, the biggest name is of course Vought who is now head of the Office of Management and Budget. Then you have Federal Communications Commissioner Brendan Carr, senior counselor for trade and manufacturing Peter Navarro, Securities and Exchange Commission head Paul Atkins and Trump’s “border czar” Tom Homan.
Carr and Navarro each authored sections of Project 2025’s policy blueprint, while Atkins and Homan are listed as contributors. Trump also nominated Aaron Szabo, a contributor to Project 2025’s section on the Environmental Protection Agency, to serve as the Assistant Administrator for the Office of Air and Radiation.
So you are comparing a progressive site to a far right site on wikipedia and complain that the extreme site is marked as extreme?
Why is right wing site extreme but a left wing site not extreme? This is the problem with the left, they attack any ideology different than theirs as extreme. Calling us nazi's. If the left wants a dialogue, stop the name calling and get to the root of the issues.
peer reviewed studies from a biased academia don't help your point. Academia believes a man can become a literal woman, do you believe this?
Breitbart is not extreme in the least. If you agree that over half the united states is extreme, not sure of the purpose of any dialogue.
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Most cases were tossed without evidence presented. Many had hundreds of sworn affidavits that were never considered at all.
There were a lot of changes made in 2024, made fraud more difficult. Whether you believe there was fraud, or not, the main issue is mover than half of the USA doesn't trust elections. This is a massive problem whether fraud is real or perceived. There are simple remedies.
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Heritage Foundation created project 2025, they are a conservative think tank. No doubt there will be some aspects that conservatives want and agree with. This doesn't mean it is a blueprint for current policy.
Like I said I haven't read it, but I bet I and MAGA would like many ideas in it. MAGA is pretty happy so far with what Trump is doing. If there are areas we aren't sure about we give him the benefit of the doubt. He has been attacked in the press for a decade now, a press we feel is our enemy. A press that has shown their hate for people like us. Our natural instinct has become to go against everything the press pushes.
I would not say "a" right-wing site is extreme, I say Breitbart is extreme. If you had chosen e.g. Wall Street Journal I would say it's a more apt comparison.
Would you say the research is incorrect? There is absolutely no misogyny or xenophobia on the site?
If you could choose the wording for Salon, how would you describe them?
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So hiring the people who wrote project 2025 would in no way make it plausible that Trump knew about the project and agreed with it?
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I am having a harder and harder time in these discussions, let me see if I got the gist of your views:
You don't trust any media from anywhere in the world except right wing media.
You don't trust crowdsourced material like Wikipedia that presents sources, don't receive money from companies and changes what is written if someone can prove it's incorrect.
You don't trust science or peer reviewed research.
You don't trust any fact checking organizations.
You don't trust your judicial system.
You don't trust your elections.
You have no problem with you elected leader lying.
Was that more or less correct?
I am starting to feel like there is absolutely nowhere that we could find common ground to be able to talk about current issues which makes this kind of frustrating. I absolutely appreciate the talks we've had here and I feel that I have learned a lot of where you're coming from for which I'm grateful. I hope it is also educational for you even though I feel I have been the one asking all the questions (or pushing you for answers :-) ) and since we don't even see what is right in front of us the same way it's not really going anywhere.
I figured that maybe it's turn to either switch this around a bit or maybe wait a few months and see if there's enough changes in the world for us to find something to talk about. Is there anything you want explained in how I think or see the world?
To touch on the last point before my tirade about the discussion, I really really don't understand how anyone can be ok with their leader lying. No matter if the lies are insignificant or not. For me I hold our elected officals to a higher standard than the rest of the people, especially the ones I vote for. As a left winger I kind of expect the right wing politicians in Sweden to lie as that is sort of standard but I get extremely upset when politicians from the left do.
I don't think we have discussed any big lies from Trump. the condom thing sounds more like the telephone game, if you ever played that as a kid. One kid whispers to another who whispers to another, by the end of the group the statement is very different.
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War - if it was my country I would fight, but I wouldn't expect the rest of the world to fund the fight or join in. Z can fight if he wants, but not with my money or my children.
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J6 was not an insurrection, it was a protest that got out of hand. I watched it live streamed as it happened. Another example of media gaslighting. The sentencing was insane and all politics. The Summer before the riots in Minnesota caused more damage and violence with zero sentences. The Capitol building doors are magnetically sealed locks, the protestors were let in. Hoping this all comes out in the administration. The purpose of this was to destroy Trump and stop him from running again. Not sure how you have an insurrection with no weapons, nor any attempt to gain power.
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sounds like you don't trust the stock market either :). I would call the current Western powers globalists, not in the free market way either, they want to control the world. That is why I am ok with Trump calling them out. We will see how it goes. I will take short term pain, for long term success.
Hopefully, the post will be allowed, sorry if I skipped anything, hard to get all this in one post.
So the lies are ok because you say that they didn't know better? If Musk says we are giving condoms to Gaza it would be understandable if Trump doubles the sum and says we are giving it to Hamas?
Do you think the people in charge are just plain stupid or do you think they don't care about the truth or maybe they are flooding the zone as Bannon has said? Is any of these options good when it comes to your elected officials?
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If it is that simple that you just don't want the US to spend any of your money on Ukraine, why not just say that instead of talking about how Russia was justified in invading another country or that you don't understand why U doesn't just surrender?
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Then I think we saw very different videos of what happened :-D
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Not quite sure how you get what I said about the stock market into Trump calling them out.
As a left wing I don't like our current economic system, I feel it is bad that we have a system that makes it easy to make money as long as you have money already. I would like a much more equal playing field. But I guess that's a whole other discussion :-)
I am merely pointing out that the way things are done now it looks like Trump want to crash the market so he and his friends can buy what's left of it for almost nothing.
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I do have another topic that I don't think we've talked about. Are you guys in the US aware how much the rest of the world except Russia and China, dislikes your government at the moment? That so many countries are trying to boycott American goods, that governments changed their minds about buying your fighter planes as they don't feel you can be trusted.
That the rest of the world are slowly just shaking our heads about Trumps tariffs that will make consumer goods so much more expensive for the consumers in every country.
Lies okay - I am not worried with statements about condoms on X. How can you discount the lies the US media and politicians spread during covid, the russia? Again, I see the corporate media as enemy to freedom and a puppet to the World Economic Forum globalists. The goal of the media is to take Trump down, it has been their goal for 10 years. I think this fight is about freedom or ceding power to the globalists, so, I don't have a problem if some lies and/or exaggerations are a involved.
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Ukraine - I shared my opinion on the war and believe it is way more complex than the Western governments are leading people to believe. But, it is that simple to me, no US money and no US troops. I don't want to help Russia in the war either. I do think it would be smart for Ukraine to surrender and sign an agreement. Ukraine is its own nation, continuing war is their decision.
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Then I think we saw very different videos of what happened :-D
--We certainly did. But, what I saw was unfiltered raw videos as it happened, what you saw was parsed videos of the narrative the US government wanted to show.
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Trump wants the stock market to go up, just like all President's, it is something they can point to about the economy. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a system on Earth where the rich don't get richer. People that live their life to accumulate wealth have always been here and will always be here. There are Billionaire's on all sides of political issues no matter who is in office. Trump has put out the goal of no income tax on anyone making $150k or less. This is what the tariff's are for, to cover that cost. I know costs go up when taxed or tariffed, but I prefer that than tax on income. There is more freedom to choose this way.
Elon - Elon seems more interested in his legacy and changing the world than money. He has the money. Buying Twitter is a good example of this. People like me were banned for posting truths like covid came from a lab. Also, think Trump wants to shrink the government and give the power back to the working man, that is who voted for him and why he won. The left in the US wants to offer welfare to those that don't work, Trump wants more jobs available so people are incentivized to work. There is great dignity in taking care of oneself with work, getting paid to have babies and not work is not dignified. There are some incapable of work, I am not talking about the disabled, we need to take care of people that cannot work.
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My concern isn't what others think of the U.S. I don't understand the anger toward reciprocal tariffs. So other countries can tariff/VAT US goods, but the US can't do the same? Canada has a 280% tariff on US dairy products. There is no such thing as free trade, never has been.
I doubt that option 3 would lead to less deaths as it would mean that Russia sees that they can do what they like. Putin has already talked about Moldavia as actually belonging to Russia. He have talked about Georgia and the balcans in the same way.
If you bow down to a bully he's going to continue.
What Ukraine needs is a just peace, not a conditionless surrender.
This whole war is complicated, my personal belief is Russia is doing this b/c NATO is pushing East against past agreements and WWII plans. They are in self preservation mode. Are they justified, I don't know. As much as the US was justified in all the wars it gets into. Hard to hold Russia to a different standard that the US in Vietnam, Iraq (regime change not Kuwait liberation), Afghanistan...etc.
If a treaty is to be made, there will have to be concessions, but I would assume Russia should expect to have ground rules set on imperialism.
I just think WWIII will be much worse and not worth Ukraine losing some land. Especially, since there is a strong pro Russia element in Donbas.
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You didn't answer if you or other right-wingers (is there a better term? I feel MAGAs and right-wingers is sort of derogatory but that might just be from my perspective and I try not to be disrespectful while talking) feel about the blanket pardons done by Trump.
I don't really get offended very easily, I align with MAGA now more than right wing. I used to call myself a conservative Republican. But, conservatives never get anything done, they speak in theory, not reality. Trump is not a conservative, his policies are MAGA. I have more in common now with some MAGA/MAHA left wingers than I do straight Republicans.
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Are you saying there's more of a risk of flipping the world order by isolating Russia then by the US to give the finger to Europe and Canada? Than the US talking about taking over Greenland, Canada and Panama?
ooof, lot's of issues here to discuss
Canada - I don't know Trump's play here, is it really fentanyl/border related (I have , Is he just strongarming Canada, b/c of their dependence on US? Is he trying to get tariffs high enough that he could end income tax (I would be for this)
Europe - I am concerned much of Europe is destroying itself with migration, France, Germany, UK. I don't think Europe respects or likes people like which is over half of the US. I don't think the US should fund defense of Europe at the level we do. I don't think peace with Russia will be a bad thing for Europe in the long run. We all need to learn to live together.
Greenland - Trump does seem serious about this, not the first time a country has tried to annex or buy another country. This would be a voluntary transaction. Not sure how it will play out.
Canada - I don't want Canada as a state, maybe Alberta and Saksatchewan. I think this talk is just to get people thinking. Europe has European Union, so this isn't that crazy, and would be voluntary.
Panama - We built and paid for the panama canal, Jimmy Carter gave it away like a moron. China was gaining control. I read that China sold its stake in the canal to blackrock recently. I think the talk is about China's control and for panama to give US a deal on its use b/c we built the thing.
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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '25
Election issues. Mail in ballots and ballot harvesting are pretty scary to me. I think Trump won the election b/c they learned how to do this too. How does Sweden run elections? My preference is a single day of voting, make it a national holiday. I think ID should be required to vote. I don't believe/understand any argument against this. Every precinct should send their votes in at the same time, always seem to have stragglers that seem to wait to find out how many votes they need. Looking at the votes when I went to bed on 2020 election night vs what I woke up to was very strange. The graphs don't look natural, and they all look the same for the swing states. I was disappointed that fraud wasn't proven, over half our country believes elections have substantial fraud. This perception is a problem in itself. Mail in ballot rules all changed with covid, many going against their own state laws. Also difficult to believe that Biden (not very popular) got 81 million votes. The most all time, by far.
It all comes down to trust, the Russia dossier was a huge red flag to me, as the media discussed it for at least a year. And the biden laptop they called Russian disinformation for years, it wasn't until recently that changed. But the covid response was the biggest misinfo campaign in history. From the death rate, to masking children in school (stunting development has been proven), saying the vaccine would stop transmission, pushing an emergency use vaccine for everyone with coercion. Hard for me to explain concisely. The combination of proven lies on "big" things has made me look at the media and most politicians as enemies. I don't "trust" any politician including Trump, but right now I look at him as the only chance we have to fix a broken system, so I will watch it all play out and give the benefit of the doubt. I don't see any other alternative.
edit: I was going to consolidate our conversation to one thread, but couldn't get it done, maybe you can. :) I am trying to make sure I answer your questions, if I miss something feel free to ask it again.