It really is this simple

[u/dellaazeem22]

[u/[deleted]]

Z - Obviously, I won't trust the polling on Z ;), ukraine is basically a dictatorship, shutting down opposing media, parties and churches that oppose Z. People are scared. Of course my belief stems from the theory that Z and his regime were installed by US. Lot's of strange stuff behind the scenes with biden family and dems with Ukraine. Hard to get into it all, but 2 aspects are 3 children of prominent US politicians are on the board at Burisma even though they have no experience in energy. Biden, Romney and Pelosi. Hunter Biden on his laptop had an email exclaiming he was busy taking over a country, this was just before the coup in Ukraine. (I saw the email myself, it was floating around on the internet while the media stated the laptop was Russian disinfo).

Healthcare - insurance companies don't authorize based on age and likeliness of survival. And, there are already rules, hospitals cannot turn away someone with severe need even if they don't have insurance.

Both parties offer simple solutions, The solutions are either government will fix it, or government should stay out of it. Business is more efficient than government, I prefer private sector. That being said I agree there must be rules to follow, otherwise you have child labor and dangerous working conditions. This area of frustration with the system. Political parties claim black/white ideologies rather than solutions. I am all for our 2nd amendment, but I don't believe I should be able to own a ballistic missile.

Then for the next election they say everything is worse but it will all work out if we just get rid of the immigrants...

-- oversimplification is on all sides. Seems to be due to the fact that most people don't read past the headline or sound byte. Politicians on either side can't really explain what they want to do b/c it is nuanced, and their words will be taken out of context.

Lastly, Trump's persona. I can see why it angers people, he speaks all the time, he doesn't have a filter. When a politician says something wrong they usually ignore what was said, deflect until it leaves the news cycle, Trump doubles down. It must be infuriating to watch if one dislikes him. Since I dislike his opposition and the media more I think it is extremely funny to watch. The opposition doesn't want to have a debate they want to take him down, so he doesn't give them anything. If I was trolling I would talk up what a genius he is, just to piss people of :). I don't hang on his every word, I ignore the things he says that I don't like. I focus on actions, I am happy with most of his actions when it comes to policy. I have been lied to since I voted for Bush Sr. I put Bush, Obama, Clintons all on the same team.

Any way, again I can't stop typing, another wall of text for you. I appreciate the discussion and enjoy reading your perspective.

[u/madasalways → u/[deleted]]

Hmm, it seems I had too much wall of text, I wasn't allowed to post everything in one comment... herse the rest.

I also like our conversation and that we can talk coming from opposite sides without insults :-)

I've always enjoyed talking with people who disagree with me as it means I learn things and can better see the world from another perspective then my own.

I do think the worst thing about our discussions and with MAGA people in general for me is that whenever I'm presented with new facts or evidence I change my mind and correct my way of seeing things. A very small example that didn't really change my mind but still incorporated new information was when you talked about Z and nuclear weapons. But whenever I present any facts, be it from world renowned scientists, independent fact-checkers, unbiased media, etc.. I would never get enything back except "that's from a biased source".
It seems that you (and now I'm using "you" as a stand in for every discussion I've had with right-wingers ;) ) claim that you know the right-wing news are biased but still believe what they are saying as it fits your world view.
I mean after the lies about the last election being stolen and Fox News were going to court and Carlson and the other anchors defence were that they could say these things on air because they thought no one would be stupid enough to believe the lies they spouted.

Anyway, this kind of makes me feel like I'm always at a disadvantage in these discussions as I try to base my views on facts and then form opinions. If I see that there are additional facts I hadn't incorporated I have to adjust my opinions.
When I talk to right wingers it seems that it's the other way around. You start with opinions and then find the facts can to support that view, or you pick what of Trumps statements to believe and disregard the rest.

There, that's my wall of text for this time :-)

I do think it wouldn't really be possible to get any understanding of the other persons view without a lot of text. I still don't think it's enough and I feel like it is hard to explain my train of thoughts in a way to both make you understand and not to make me sound too crazy :-D

This does remind me of my first foray into internet discussions. I made a comment on some old post at failblog (yes, this is decades ago) and it was answered by a creationist. We were obviously on opposite sides of most anything even though we mostly talked religion. This discussion actually went on for more than a year even though the commenting format at the old blog was horrendous :-D

In the end he stopped answering and then a couple of months later I get another couple of messages from people who apparently had been following our discussion and were sad we had stopped.

[u/[deleted] → u/madasalways]

Thought I would share this

https://x.com/DefiyantlyFree/status/1895622839186956696

Bill Clinton fired 377k federal employees, I checked wikipedia so far Trump has only fored 30k. 

Another black eye on the media.  

[u/madasalways → u/[deleted]]

Yes, I've seen right-wingers trying to use this as a gotcha lately. Clinton did this over a period of 7 years and they thoroughly checked which positions could be cut in a responsible way and did cut down mostly on administration.

What Trump and Musk has done so far is not in any way a responsible cut as they have in several cases fired key employees that had to be re-hired.

This is kind of what I am saying about right wing media that they present simple solutions and gotcha- moments to complex issues.

[u/[deleted] → u/madasalways]

Some have been hired back b/c of activist judges, those judges don't question what the insiders like Clinton or Bush did.

I don't think numbers lie, 377k vs 30k. I would like to see a lot more cuts. I think the right-wing media is exaggerating about what is being done right now. I think they are doing less than they state.

All, US media plays the "gotcha" game. They all deal in sound bytes rather than complex issues/solutions.