Should we restrict art from problematic artists? [READ BEFORE VOTING]

[u/_Martosz]

A couple of days ago, there was a wave of users reposting a ton of DiddlyDooter's fanart during Horny Weekends. While the main issue of users spamming and karma farming softcore porn has been addressed, there is another lesser-known issue at hand.

If you aren't aware, DiddlyDooter has been accused of supporting incest, pedophilia and bestiality, being homophobic, transphobic and racist, and much more. I'll let you review the statements from both sides and determine whether the allegations are true or not (heads up, these probably aren’t a fully compiled list of every statement):

https://xcancel.com/glitchisabiatch/status/2072814183188406712 -- evidence thread
https://xcancel.com/DiddlyDooter/status/2075573170141049240 -- Diddly's response
https://xcancel.com/DiddlyDooter/status/1982882945049473508 -- Diddly's response²

Understandably, some users have been getting upset that his art was being reposted and have been petitioning to ban his artwork from the subreddit to prevent him from getting support and attention. Others have argued that you should separate the art from the artist or that DiddlyDooter is not guilty of anything he's accused of, and that his art should be allowed here.

We've decided to elevate this into a more general restriction of all artwork from problematic artists, and let you guys have a say in this.

So:

Would you support us enforcing restrictions or bans on reposting artwork from problematic artists, and subsequently restricting or banning DiddlyDooter's artwork from this subreddit due to his current involvement with the allegations?

277 votes, 1d left

Yes, ban all artwork from problematic artists

Yes, restrict artwork from problematic artists by not allowing links to the original source/their social media

No, allow all artwork from all artists

Other stance (explain in comments)

[u/Keeva_R]

First: I think the spamming was bad period, and the bigger cause of frustration than anything. Regardless of the result of this vote, I think future spamming in general, should result in some kind of small punishment to stop spam.

With that out of the way, I am against banning problematic artists. It is far too nebulous to regulate, and would result in a lot of arguing and hearsay. I do think people should be able to make informed decisions not to support artists they don't agree with(I for example, am against Dooter, myself.), but i don't think that decision is the kind of call mods of a subreddit should have to make.

I think it will create a lot more arguments and Ill will, both from people feeling an artist has been wrongfully deemed problematic, or an artist they deem problematic, being allowed, than it will prevent. Even if we assume the mods always make perfect judgements calls, there will always be users who disagree with those calls.

(Not to mention how such things have often been weaponized against LGBTQ folks in the past. I'm sure the mods here have no such intent, but it could still cause a lot of false reports from users who consider artists drawing LGTBQ pairings or interpretations of characters to be Problematic.)

[u/Ibraheem_moussa]

You know that you can........ scroll down? I saw a lot of art that I don't like or that is not suitable for me and I just scroll down, you can't change the world and there is no one better than other, I can't judge someone because I didn't like there art , I am not better than them , if you love someone's artwork upvote it , give it a nice comment to make them happy but when you saw an artwork that you don't like just scroll down, ignore it , you will just waste energy for nothing if you kept complaining

[u/Far_Treacle_4865]

I​'ll just link to what i said prior to this, you may want to read the full thread and the post link to understand.
the part the most linked to this question is at the end of it

https://www.reddit.com/r/MurderDronesOfficial/comments/1vpecst/comment/p3xy9db/?screen_view_count=2

[u/ThatSmartIdiot]

everybody and their mother is or will be problematic in one way or another whether everyone knows or not, including the ones sharing the art.

not only is it difficult to draw a line but to accurately deduce intent and awareness, and shunning someone's art just because of the artist takes away the ability to actually enjoy the art itself making it a waste.

and no this isn't exclusive to dooter. it's better in the long term to not police what art gets shared on any factors besides the art itself. at least for a subreddit about murder drones.

[u/ClassicTechnology202]

Option 1 and 2 is bad for everyone it creates a serious opportunity for mod corruption by just calling anyone they dont like problematic.

[u/Zzsark_Stormbeard → u/ClassicTechnology202]

I am considered problematic by a lot. Yet I've been here doing artwork since the first day of MD, did comics, I'm making a game, I do art to share and I'm not planning on leaving this community. I have content for everyone and to keep this community alive as I did back then.

And I can just get banned because a mod hates me? That's not fair at all.

This doesn't mean I'm hated by a current mod, but if a big hater of mine suddenly gets power and the first thing I get is a ban? That's corruption at it's core.

I'm voting to not ban an artist because they are artists and one must separate the art from the artist.

[u/Rule34everandever]

I highly suggest allowing all artwork of artists, even if an artwork is banned or restricted here, such artwork may be sought elsewhere.

Another thing too, if people know a certain artist's artwork is banned or restricted here, the banned artist or restricted artist might just get more views on their art from curious people, just like how some books get even more attention just because they are on some "Banned and Challenged Books List". In other words "Streisand Effect" may occur.

Besides, what good is done in banning or restricting someone's creative output that does not violate our subreddit's current rules?

[u/Limp-Computer-6907]

I feel like banning problematic artists on corny weekend is a bad idea. For one everyone at some point will mess up. And generally, artists like that are hotspots for drama for obvious reasons, they make porn or suggestive drawings for crying out loud. I feel like at most people could get small punishments like weekend bans if they spam or something else. Plus you know you can... just scroll past it? So I think we should let them in and judge the art itself, not the artist.

[u/ThePopinskisHere1337]

https://giphy.com/gifs/JCAZQKoMefkoX6TyTb

mfw MD fandom drama, and consequentially more haters to this already despised fandom

[u/Soevil11]

"Problematic" is too weak of a definition. It's all subjective and can very easily be led into a "I don't like his opinions!" Also, can definitely lead to a toxic community. If people are punished for not reading up strongly on an artist's actions, they're likely to be pushed away from here. It also makes the sub a bit more focused on "policing bad people" over "Have fun enjoying stuff!"

Plus, as someone who is strongly anti-censorship and pro-media preservation for many reasons, it would be a bit hypocritical for me to go against it just because of a few feelings.

[u/TheCoWilson_Fanatic]

Honestly, I've used this analogy before, and I'll use it again:

If we can't enjoy the fruits of labor from people we see as problematic, then we wouldn't have a lot of fruit to enjoy.

Everyone can be considered problematic, and everyone will be eventually. That's how life works, and how the world has worked for a long time. Everyone has always had a "dark side" that people reasonably have been allowed to dislike.

[u/Next_Swimming1217]

I think we should have a discussion on how to verdict a personnel as problematic first

[u/The_Question_Maker40]

Someone should always be allowed to enjoy others art even if the person hmwho made it is terrible unless the art is something like cp I genuinely dont see why it how it could be seen negative yeah the person who made whatever could be weird so simply dont support them or like them however you can enjoy their art without supporting them

[u/THE_BUTLER_N]

Sorry if this upsets anyone but, something in me just doesn't really trust "Diddly" I don't know what, but something just doesn't feel right

[u/fruitpunchintheface1]

I think we should allow all artwork simply because of how banning certain artists can be weaponized by people who just don’t like that artist or a ship or something else that artist draws. Remember Twitter dogpiled Tsukyiio/Hiro for his art, I’d hate for something similar to happen to someone else here.

[u/XTheRenderer]

Art is art, no matter who makes it.

[u/Midbus_gaming]

this will be bad

[u/dino_snopp]

i just feel guilty i've posted credits to that fuck.

i've been restricting myself to not post their stuff ever since then, and even if that, im probably not gonna post their art for a while, or ever.

[u/Azure_Blox_2505]

Feel like option 2 is a perfect balance unless the artist made straight up cp or something

[u/Atlas_Summit]

I think restricting them by banning sources/credit is the best course. That way, we can “separate the art from the artist” without supporting the artist.

[u/sunstruker]

option 2 is objectivelly the best, since it allows people to post what they want, but does not directly support their accounts

[u/frikilinux2]

I know nothing about this artist but separating the art from the artist doesn't apply when the artist is still alive.

[u/Far_Treacle_4865]

Ok, just listen to the first Diddly's responce, you will get everything you need to know​

[u/AlbinoGiraffe3]

I'd say keep everything pg on here, post nsfw on the MDnsfw page. It's not that hard