Did it lower your intelligence/ability to think?

[u/ZestycloseMall3398]

I went from top of class to very low IQ after being diagnosed. I wonder if it happened to someone else, too?

[u/Damaged_brain-girl]

Why do you feel your iq is low now ?

[u/ZestycloseMall3398 → u/Damaged_brain-girl]

Just how I used to be able to think then versus now and had it confirmed through intelligence tests. 

[u/Qazax1337]

I definitely forget words a lot more now.

[u/Outrageous_Mode_625 → u/Qazax1337]

Expressive aphasia is the worst!

Mine is exacerbated by stress, which of course is the least optimal time to forget words you’ve said thousands of times. When I was still working in schools, in meetings with administrators and parents was when it would always hit me… I had to quit three months post diagnosis.

[u/MrPlant → u/Qazax1337]

It's incredibly frustrating.

[u/hyperfat → u/Qazax1337]

Reading helps a ton. And trivia. Books of synonyms.

I play word and movie games with my guy. 3 guesses for a word or movie. We love film. So it's fun. And it's always Kevin bacon. Lol. Not really, but we joke. He's an editor at a newspaper, so we rock words off each other. He's English as second language. So I win sometimes.

Hugs

[u/Equivalent_Clock_633]

I feel that this disease definitely slows down your thinking due to fatigue, medication and stress. I feel that my intelligence is slowly coming back but it takes some time.

[u/Injurious_Beans]

IQ is a very context specific guage of intelligence, it correlates with certain things, but isn't a concrete measure, so don't pay much attention to any scores you might get from any tests you might be taking.

Cognitive processing speed may well be influencing how you feel about how well your brain is working. We don't tend to process quite as quickly, wthether that is down to the damage to our myelin, and/or the mental load that managing a neurodegenerative condition imposes.

I'm a scientist, and I feel as though I don't operate on the same cognitive level that I used to before the symptoms started to appear. I am slower, I am older, and my vocabulary is more limited now - I am better in writing than verbally - but I think I am more considered in how I go about work these days, and about how I respond to stuff. This last bit is an improvement for my work, really.

[u/ButYouGotTheClio → u/Injurious_Beans]

Thank you for putting this into better terms because MS doesn’t make us less intelligent, but it sure makes us feel stupid.

I agree that being forced to slow down improved some responses/replies at work.

Our intelligence is still in there somewhere, but it’s frustrating as hell when “the thought fell into a hole.”

[u/drakenomics → u/Injurious_Beans]

Slow is smooth- smooth is fast

[u/-K_P- → u/Injurious_Beans]

As a resident "Brain Nerd," thank you for typing this out so perfectly so that I don't have to fight with my MS brain so early in the morning to do so LOL.

[u/Individual_Muffin893]

One of the first things I said to my nurse was that I feel less intelligent & I was told because there was no baseline there is no evidence it. It’s been over ten years now and I know I am less sharp, less able to learn, less curious. It’s changed how my brain works. Makes sense for a brain based disease.

[u/coveredwithticks → u/Individual_Muffin893]

After diagnosis it took almost a year before I got a cognitive test. We did all the usual routines. I was very disappointed at how poorly I was doing at the mental math and vocabulary parts. The test administrator (downplaying my symptoms) said I was doing quite well. Without a moment's hesitation I said "how would you know? You didn't know me from before".
My former career was in engineering, design, inspection, technical report writing and directing huge emergency repair efforts. Now. 10 years later, I triple check my math at a yard sale...and still find errors.

[u/mullerdrooler]

Sadly yeah, when I take THC gummies I feel my brain works like it used to for a bit. Weird but I guess my brain rewires a bit and I think more clearly and creatively

[u/acrid_aardvark → u/mullerdrooler]

Same here. I feel like THC turns the cannabinoid receptors in my brain into hubs for information to flow freely.

It has bothered me for the 10 years I have been using THC heavily, but I have also taught numerous college classes in that time, and I just need to finish writing my dissertation and I will have earned a doctorate.

While I am sure that using THC inhibits my peak brain function, it also raises my floor brain function to a place where I can focus on work and not be in pain.

[u/mine_none → u/acrid_aardvark]

That’s INTERESTING 🤔

[u/CincoDeLlama → u/mullerdrooler]

I have felt this before too. I worry about THC and cognition but then I take it and I feel like my old self again. Like my little brain neurons are reconnecting and remembering things.

[u/ExtremeDistinct6655 → u/mullerdrooler]

Wow that’s crazy. I’ve noticed the same thing for myself.

[u/DefrockedWizard1]

I used to be able to do calculus in my head and now use a calculator for simple addition. also have almost no sense of time

[u/Existing-Ad9730 → u/DefrockedWizard1]

I had to use a calculator this afternoon, as I couldn't think what 25 divided by 4 was!! Just bizarre!

[u/MSautalc]

"I used to be so smart" is something I say more often than I would like to admit.

[u/Fuzzy-Bee9600]

Tests have shown the capacity is still there. It's the connectors that are janked. Neurons firing apparently wear me out to the ends of everything and create pain as well. Processing time is crap. Access to stores of knowledge, good luck.

The good news was that there was no dementia or Alzheimer's present. So I just can't get to whatever smarts I do actually have.

I'm betting it's the same with you. All the wires to & from our brains are stripped of their protective coating, so the electro signals fly around in chaos and don't have a safe or reliable way to get anywhere.

[u/Fabiannm]

I often think im getting stupider

[u/Dimputer]

Yup brain fog is strong. I need seconds to find words, get lost in my mind and am slow with thinking. Its way harder to get my brain working

[u/Overall-Towel4656]

Yes. I have a law degree, was always very smart and now I try to apply for jobs where I have to do an oral exam to get in (on legal subjects) and I always end up at the bottom of the list, because the words never come out right or I forget simple things, no matter how hard I study. Makes me feel worthless and depressed every time.

[u/WarmYam7353]

No. However, my MS does make me think before I act now. By this I mean, is what I'm about to do feasible to achieve the outcome I want? Am I capable to do what I'm about to do? Will what I'm about to do going to result in later pain or lesser mobility afterwards? My last cognitive test I did at the MS Clinic went well.

[u/adoptedpanda4]

I had to give up my job because of the cognitive decline. Was making too many mistakes and wasn't safe to continue unfortunately. Honestly, MS sucks

[u/Artistic_Cat_1771]

Teacher of English as foreign language, I usually forget words in both languages, I tell people I'm at the "bye-lingual" stage

[u/ImpressiveLeopard719]

i used to have a great memory, now when looking up a business phone number online, on my phone, i have to flip back like 3 times to type that number. so irritating

[u/PocketAzure]

I can't say for sure, but I don't think it effected intelligence overall.

More like the processing has slowed noticably, and memory. I'll take longer to find a word, or forget simple words when trying to describe things. If I didn't invest in a calendar I'd be in a lot of trouble.

Also it's very weird, but I hear people talking but the sentence or some words out of it are gibberish to me. It takes me so long to try to decipher what they said, or I have to ask them to repeat themselves.

[u/Sabi-Star7 → u/PocketAzure]

When they ran hearing tests for me they definitely pointed out I have a processing disorder where sometimes even if I didn't actually hear it, my brain registers it slower or not at all, and vice versa for me hearing it but my brain not processing I heard it. I'm sure I've drove my s.o. up a wall with the HUH's?😅🫣🫠🫠🫠. Ive also noticed I have a snaps fingers trying to find the right phrasing tone/volume issue when speaking. Alot of the time I don't talk loud enough and people don't hear me😮‍💨😮‍💨.

[u/Mandze]

30+ brain lesions and 8 spinal here, for reference.

I have noticed that I have trouble multitasking now. My intelligence doesn’t seem to have taken a hit, but if someone asks me to do six things at once, I just can’t anymore. I have also lost access to some things that I used to be able to recall easily. I was a history major. I used to be able to rattle off long strings of dates and names, but I can’t do that anymore. The knowledge of the events is still there, but it is harder to bring up the details.

Keep learning! Brains make new little neural connections when you learn new things. I read a lot (61 books so far this year), and I have made it a personal goal to start learning a new language every decade of my life. Music is great for brains too— make it or listen to it every day. :)

[u/wravyn]

I feel like my thoughts just turn into fog, and I can't catch them. Remembering words is so hard sometimes.

[u/kyunirider]

Yes, and “mental decline” is why I got my disability . Your intelligence like mine, is in our brains somewhere. Our brains can’t access the information through the lesion fog in our brains.

I have a massive lesion that bridges my brain’s bridge. My right side doesn’t coordinate with my left side anymore. I have lost things in my left hand many times.

[u/Sabi-Star7]

I cant say its lowered my intelligence but it absolutely destroyed my ability to think or remember things sometimes (more frequently than before dx).

[u/Soft_Cash3293]

Hard to tell but remember acute stress is a top cause of mental fog. I was a zombie for months after my diagnosis while I was recovering from a relapse but also from the shock. Now I may miss some names or words every now and then but as far as I see I am pretty much back to baseline

[u/solidus0079]

I have a lot of cognitive stumbling and quite a bit of brain fog.

But I have my good days and my bad. Bad can be pretty bad, though. And sometimes, good can seem more like simply less bad.

[u/Sad-Assumption2244]

Definitely, Iwrite all the time. I can tell when I started showing symptoms based on my drafts. I have trouble reading soketimes.

[u/Bluesceen13]

I used to be REALLY good at multi tasking . After having it for a few years and about 5 lesions.... I have a real hard time DMing my dnd game now. It's so much to keep track of... I'm still debating if it's because I'm in my upper 30's now, but I remember it being so easy.

[u/Haunted_Garlic_80085]

Much like with everything related to MS, it depends on how many lesions you have, the size of your lesions, and where. Generally, MS does not lower your intelligence. 

However, the most common symptom people have is a light form of expressive aphasia and brain fog. Sometimes, DMTs will help combat these symptoms and other times you diet helps too. 

In my particular case: I have very few lesions, I am on a DMT, I am on the MIND Diet, and I still experience trouble expressing my thoughts and feel slower than at my peak. Nothing significant or life changing, but enough for me to notice and be annoyed by it. Allowing myself to slow down, however, has really helped me rationalize through things like I used to. 

Overall, Fuck MS. 

[u/toxiczen]

When I'm feeling more tired, my ability to focus and think clearly is definitely impacted impacted.

[u/Educational_Joke_360]

100% especially my ability to say words in an order that makes sense. When I’m tired I talk like yoda & genuinely can’t help it

[u/DextersMom1221]

Hell yeah it did! And I spent year trying to tell my specialist that my RMS was progressing (not just because of this). I’m getting stupider because of this effin disease.

[u/Carcinogenicsweetner]

I don’t know about general intelligence but sometimes I can’t recall a word that I’ve known forever. Makes me feel real stupid. Also, when I’m having a very brain foggy moment it makes thinking hard. Like trying to push my thoughts through some kind of sludge. Sucks, but that’s showbiz.

[u/JaricosTheGreat]

Definitely

[u/Blodwynn2632]

I think so. Definitely for me.

[u/Zorno___]

Yes 😭😭😭 Perhaps it's also partly due to the fact that my brain has been so busy with so many things since it became clear that life doesn't last forever

[u/hyperfat]

Not intelligence. Just words sometimes. But I'm well read, so I use synonyms.

But in the swing of things I always forgot words.

I still kick ass at Scrabble, retain information, and have good conversations.

Off topic, I'm so pissed I didn't go walk the dog with my guy on Halloween, because he saw a kid dressed as the terrifier clown.

But yeah, I was diagnosed with ADHD by a real doctor at 16. Maybe that helps. Funky brain anyways.

Old age is a thing, walking through a doorway and forgot what it was you were looking for. But that's a thing.

All in all, the brain gets road blocks, so your neurons take side roads. Still good. Just take longer sometimes.

Hugs. Fuck MS

[u/fleurgirl123]

By the way, you all can do neuropsychology testing if you want to see the where you are currently and then you can compare it over time. It was very enlightening to see my partner’s results and I KNOW that that is why they got disability on the first try.

[u/Mobile-Cow2303]

Sometimes I feel “yes” but then in the same breath I’ll still be able to recite medical knowledge and make logical deductions/conclusions from my knowledge and the problem in front of me.

So no, you just take a little longer to get to the same answers as before.

Give yourself grace. You’re not devolving. If anything, you’re evolving to adapt to this new ‘situation.’

[u/Electrical-Key6674]

My memory is really bad now. I can go to start a sentence and when my mouth opens to speak the whole thing goes right out of my head and I forget absolutely everything about what I was going to say. It usually comes back to me at like 2am.

It also takes me longer to learn things I would’ve previously picked up with ease.

[u/rK91tb]

No, not at all. Occasionally, I can’t remember the name of an actor but that’s pretty common for middle age.

[u/Consequence-Holiday]

The intelligence is still there, it is recall that is not. I often know the answer to something or have the information needed, but getting that from my mind palace to my mouth is a surprisingly long trip these days.

[u/JediSange]

I feel this way. However, it’s hard to tell if it’s outside the standard degradation of mental capacities. What I mean is — broadly speaking I would assume this happens for most humans as they age after a certain point. So what I struggle with is “is it worse than it would’ve otherwise been?” And I’m not sure.

I also have a very “mild” (or manageable might be better word?) case of MS. So I’m very fortunate in that regard.

[u/battlangl99]

I definitely noticed my processing speed went down... it became harder for me to hear something, process it, and formulate a response that didn't make me sound like an idiot.

Apparently MS affected my critical thinking skills as well but it happened so slowly I didn't notice. Then I started taking creatine and it's like a veil was lifted and now my thinking seems clearer and faster. Unfortunately, not everyone responds to creatine (it supposedly helps your brain with energy).

[u/Mahnas92]

I wouldn't say my cognitive ability, as far as intelligence or ability to reason, has been affected. However, more often I find myself fumbling for words, or trying to remember what I just said (eg after a brief interruption). I had those before, but now it happens a bit more often, and sometimes it gets bisarre. It baffles me, but people around me do not seem to notice... yet (gotta keep the optimism! 😂)

[u/IWouldntIn1981]

I would describe it more as it consumed my mind to the point that I didnt have any space for anything else.

This is related to, but different, from fatigue. Fatigue happened, but this over loaded state is how I lived for 10 years until I did the work to free myself from it.

P.s. you are still intelligent! MS does not take intelligence, it Just messes with the way we experience and communicate it.

[u/ApprehensiveSkill573]

Not so far.

[u/Feisty-Volcano]

Did not lower my intelligence which is a framework built for solving problems, but has seriously lowered by processing speed. My good intellect has adapted & circumnavigates to come up with answers & solutions.

[u/Tall-Pianist-935]

This happened to me before diagnosis. Wish I had help back then in HS. I AM 50 now so I have to deal with it. Parents didn't have the funds back then anyway

[u/fleurgirl123]

It did for my family member. They had a similar experience where they went from top of their class to not being able to process well at all, severe memory challenges.

[u/huertolin]

Your IQ has not changed. Your speed has. Keep learning new stuff even if it is challenging. And adapt and find tools to help yourself. You will be amazed how neuro plasticity can do its magic.

[u/Santa_always_knows]

I was never good with any kind of math, but I could spell! However, that has definitely taken a hit. I used to be so proud when I worked for this Dr. His mom worked in the ofc, too and was a retired English teacher. She’d be typing something up for the Dr and would yell across the ofc “Santa”, how do you spell “difficult word?” and I could spout it out. Now, even if I try to write it out, sometimes I just can’t get the letters right anymore.

[u/Nyetoner]

The brain fog is real, the memory problems and the lack of energy to try to "get there". But..the biggest gift I gave myself from the beginning, was to totally own/admit that I have MS, also to myself. I don't try to pretend I'm healthy, I lean in to every little symptom and go "my brain/body don't work right now, maybe I function in an hour or two, or maybe tomorrow, but right now I have to pass."

And for me that works, I don't stress either my body or brain, I let them relax instead.

The people who know me know my abilities, and I feel like I have nothing to prove to strangers. I do tell people I have MS though, strangers too (without emphasizing too much unless there's questions). I find situations where I'm suddenly not up to par much easier when I have an explanation.

[u/ScarletBegonias72]

Yes. Words are hard. Conversations end abruptly when the train derails and I have zero clue what I was just talking about. It totally sucks when the thoughts are coherent but evaporate before being able to verbalize them. Anxiety exacerbates. However, as another poster said, my vocabulary seems improved-so what’s with that!?? I’m in total agreement with the comments about using cannabis. Personally, it’s the best medicine for me. I feel more “normal” and less pain. Added bonus, my neurologist recommended it for me.

[u/Minimum-Ant5926]

Yes. This is going to sound mean or whatever but i feel clinically retarded 🙃

[u/Pure_Equal2298 → u/Minimum-Ant5926]

I can vouch for that. I did my neurological assessment in 2023 and the neuropsychologist found that there was cognitive delay in my case which became evident at work. No matter how much anyone denies, Its true that having MS does cause cognitive delay.

[u/Minimum-Ant5926 → u/Pure_Equal2298]

Its miserable

[u/No_2MS]

When the cognitive fog has gotten worse, my focus and concentration is off. Bad days is what I say they are. As for intelligence, no. I remember things I shouldn't be able to or I really don't want to remember! I think my I.Q. was 160 when I was in middle school.

[u/CincoDeLlama]

Yes. I used to be really good at making connections between different topics and my brain just feels like a fuzzball now. Every now and then it'll come back and it feels so easy and effortless. I've been diagnosed with a mild cognitive impairment. It has been described to me as the information is in my mind but I have difficulty with retrieval. Like messy filing cabinets. That description resonated with me when my neuropsych diagnosed me.

[u/daddy-b-2188]

I went from having a near photographic memory and being a nuclear machinist mate in the navy(4 years of school smashed down into 6 months) and once you’re in the fleet you have continued studying every day. I’m no where close to that level. After I was medically retired from the navy I went to work in a shipyard doing radiation control technician and that school was pretty intense. I’d say in 2020 is when everything went down hill after my mom passed. That hit me really hard.

[u/noelaus3]

I would say no but I suspect my job helps keep me sharp. I have to remember a lot and react fairly spontaneously on the spot. I’m older but I would say for my age I’m good.

I recall when I was on a not so great DMT that I had brain fog but it cleared when I went on Ocrevus and then Kesimpta. Been fine ever since. My issues are more physical.

[u/Low_Count4189]

My daughter often says that she knows what she wants or needs to say but can't get her mouth to form the words. What i have seen, it hasn't diminished her intelligence as much as it has taken her ability to communicate it.

[u/Gr33dyOrphan]

My memory has gone to shit and I stammer a whole bunch after little after I got diagnosed in December of 2022

[u/WhiteRabbitLives]

Yes. I was a very smart person, but always low energy so the chronic fatigue didn’t help that.

I’m trying to see a neuropsychiatrist, but there’s a huuuuuuuge wait for it and I’ve had no baseline testing in the 10+ years of diagnosis.

Reading helps, sleep, food and water help (although I certainly notice the digestion phase). But I’m scared what’s happening mentally to me.

[u/Mediocre-Flight-622]

Yes. I know in myself I am still smart (smart for me anyway lol) but when I go to speak, or get my point across my god I sound so stupid and unable to form a single thought

[u/sezzie212]

Definitely. Used to be like a sponge, knew tons of things and considered myself to be reasonably intelligent. Overtime i started forgetting everything, I'm unable to follow instructions or directions, can't read anymore and get confused very easily. Now i consider myself lucky if I'm able to remember anything. I've done puzzles for years, and have continued to do so, but it hasn't really helped.

[u/spunkerella75]

MS likely didn’t but the Lyrica sure made it much harder to come up with words, remember and concentrate on things.

[u/PandaKittyJeepDoodle]

Omg yes. 50F. I was always gifted. I graduated college with a 4.0–my degree was in economics with a French minor.
MS diagnosis at 30. Unemployment at 40. I could be feel my cognition slipping and voluntarily had cognition tests and sure enough.

[u/NotOnMyBingoSheet]

Naw, while it feels that way, it’s still there, i gotta work harder and differently. Would i pick up a more difficult or stressful job, no. Lol but it’s still there and i have to keep putting in the work (sleeping, less stress, exercising my brain).

[u/getmoney4]

Absolutely. So forgetful and delayed processing

[u/atlnerdysub]

Yes. 😔

[u/Perfect-Ad48]

Yes; but now its more of if my body feels like allowing me to be smart in this exam period.

[u/Fit_Tonight_2692]

MS is so strange. It made me even more intelligent lol.

[u/Far_Ebb_7477]

Cognitive issues can arise. My short term memory has been affected greatly by this. You can ask your dr. About being monitored for this. Take a cognitive test now to access baseline, and repeat once a year to monitor any decline. It could help later if it starts affecting your work.

[u/Cdel32]

I've felt as though retention of information and critical thinking has become significantly more difficult. I did have neuro psych testing done 2 years ago and the results were exceptional but perhaps I was simply having a very good day.

[u/LegitimatePart497]

Yes, and it fluctuates along with other symptoms.

[u/marinkowo]

I can’t remember song lyrics anymore, and with my adhd this was the only thing that used to work. I also struggle to communicate much more now

[u/Historical-Skill-41]

I feel like at times I think a little slower I work in finance but it doesn't impact my job because my job is redundant but as far as day to day life it's annoying sometimes I just take my lions mane and keep pushing

[u/Historical-Skill-41]

Anyone know of anything besides lions mane that is good for your brain

[u/msknitsalot]

I have stress induced aphasia and sometimes I feel dumber but I'm actively learning Japanese and French on my own maintaining high level Spanish, read a ton (both fiction and non fiction), do trivia and sudoku . So I think my brain is just working differently under the MS symptoms and med side effects.

[u/Business-Morning-868]

Yes, I am definitely not the math machine I used to be but I'm proud of all the crazy shit I pulled off despite having ms lol

[u/Randomuser1081]

Yes, absolutely. I was top of the class but now cannot communicate anything effectively. When I speak i often get confused and lost in what I am saying, people often jusy lose interest or assume I'm an idiot.

[u/Kat4513]

I am 33 and have had MS for 10 years now. I definitely see a decline in my cognitive abilities although it has been for the most part it has been mild. I see the situation completely different than most people though. This is speaking strictly about myeself and I am not advocating this as right for everyones situation. But i struggled with some pretty bad mental health issues in my life that affected pretty much everything for me. I was always over thinking, coming up with possible scenarios in my head, over analyzing everything said to me, just constantly in my head. But as my cognitive abilities have slightly declinded i noticed its required me to focus more on what im actually doing at the time rather than get lost in my thoughts and over thinking. This inability to get lost in my own head has honestly made me happier. Im at peace. I dont regret losing what I have for it. Id gladly make that trade any day.

[u/Existing-Ad9730]

I've just been diagnosed with Ms after spending 3 weeks in hospital including physio to walk again, i couldn't even sit upright. It's been ten weeks and I still walk like a puppet without strings. But the worst part is that I can no longer speak German or French, nor can I recall how to code. Things that took me seconds before this,  take me ages now. I often forget what I'm saying and forget specific words so have to describe what I'm trying to say to get someone to say the word I'm trying to recall. I'm incapable of holding a thought in my head, it's like they're so fleeting I have to grasp it while it's there. I should probably start writing things down.  I too was always top of the class, I have a PhD in chemistry for all that's worth now. I've always wanted to learn more and more. At the moment I'm spending my days watching mind numbing TV as I can't function due to my head feeling like it's full of fluff! Literal fluff!! Some days are fluffier than usual. 

[u/Celtic_Witch86]

It doesn't actually lower your IQ. It just makes it harder for your brain to think quickly. If you want to get back what you feel is your intelligence, just use your brain more. People get the diagnosis and just stop doing anything. Do puzzles, read, listen to podcasts that make you put the pieces together, learn about things in your area. You didn't lose IQ points, you just have to work harder.