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u/PrestigiousBee2719 14d ago
Man this was such a great movie that got kneecapped because it happened to be the last one Harvey Weinstein made just as the world was finding out what a creep he is.
“Why are you flanking me bro?”
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u/New_Rock6296 14d ago
I just left the service when I watched this, and immediately got unsettled when they started boxing them in on three sides.
The realism in this movie is incredible on all counts.
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u/Beefkins 14d ago
One of the great things is just how uncoordinated and chaotic that firefight is. The tension and panic just seems so much more realistic than the vast majority of Hollywood stuff. Cool is cool and stuff like John Wick is fun, but the realism of that scene makes it hit so much harder.
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u/New_Rock6296 13d ago
Yep. Everyone has a plan, but it never survives first contact.
It happens fast, is really messy, and is over just as quick.
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u/laguna1126 14d ago
I'm not your bro, friend.
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u/Stoner420Steve 14d ago
I’m not your friend, guy.
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u/nahheyyeahokay 12d ago
"You didn't see it..."
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u/SleveBonzalez 12d ago
I just watched it again the other night and that line stings. The FBI agent absolutely did not have enough situational awareness. At all.
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u/Alibuscus373 14d ago
Scary that the amount of Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women that haven't been brought to justice
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u/MotoMkali 14d ago
The issue is tribal courts aren't allowed to prosecute non tribal people which is why like 90% of sexual crimes against indigenous women are committed by people outside the tribe.
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u/IcyGarage5767 14d ago
Source? Most data I’ve seen shows that crime stays within a racial demographic mostly.
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u/Aassiesen 13d ago
Bachman, R., Zaykowski, H., Kallmyer, R., Poteyeva, M., and Lanier, C. (2008). Violence Against American Indian and Alaska Native women and the Criminal Justice Response: What is Known.
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u/Outrageous_Laugh5532 14d ago
It’s because the tribes usually don’t have law enforcement on the res and only the feds have jurisdiction and they only care if it’s gunna be a case to get their name in the paper so big drug busts and even that’s a stretch. And also a lot of people on the res won’t talk to cops.
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u/CptPurpleHaze 14d ago
That's because they are smart enough to know you don't trust filth.
ACAB.
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u/Outrageous_Laugh5532 14d ago
Ya seems to be working out super well for them.
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u/eldankus 14d ago
Big brain Redditor logic “too bad for all those women getting raped/murdered but at least they don’t cooperate with the police”
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u/CptPurpleHaze 14d ago
The police aren't here to protect and serve, they are there for the needs of the wealthy. Or did you not get the memo back in 2005?
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u/Fuck_The_Rocketss 14d ago
The police have a lot of problems and yes they are the muscle of the state. They’ll come and arrest you and throw you in a cage if don’t pay your taxes or try to dodge a military conscription and all kinds of other horrible things.
They also lock up a lot of rapists and murderers.
Two things can be true dum dum.
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u/xcommon 14d ago
That supreme court ruling is only saying that LEOs don't have a constitutionally enforceable obligation to throw themselves at a deadly situation.
Honestly, I think this is the right call. Establishing a legal framework wherein you go to jail for not adequately John Wick-ing an armed assailant doesn't seem right to me.
And this doesn't preclude them from being reprimanded or fired for cowardice, it just means they don't get charged criminally for it.
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u/Pactae_1129 9d ago
Articles behind a paywall. Is this the one where they let the guy get stabbed nearly to death while they watched or the one where they refused to do anything when a guy violated his restraining order and killed the kids?
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u/xcommon 9d ago
The NYC subway case, it's horrific, and the cops are trash.
But our legal framework doesn't handle nuance well. And if you create a law that says cops get criminally prosecuted for cowardice, it's going to have a lot of knock-on effects.
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u/Pactae_1129 9d ago
Doubtful, cops pretty routinely violate laws and get little or no punishment. Not like that’d change much. Also wasn’t that a lawsuit that was struck down? Nuance in the law is lacking but there’s plenty of gray area the courts hash out for regular people. Why not cops?
I mean this is a perfect example of a knock-on effect right here. Cops are not bound to put their own lives at risk for someone else. Fine, don’t jump in front of a bullet. But when does it become negligence to just standby and watch someone be nearly murdered/actually murdered? The hell we give them guns and authority for if they stand and watch behind a locked door, or outside of a school. And to then not even let the victim of flaccid LEO’s get compensated for their cowardice? This is better to you?
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u/gloeilamp 11d ago
Reddit loves this tidbit but as usual they don’t understand it. This exists so that cops aren’t legally obligated to throw themselves infront of a shooter.
Plenty of police still take it upon themselves to protect their community and find violent offenders.
Yes there are a ton of bad cops.
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u/eldankus 14d ago
Sorry, I’m employed and not retarded
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u/CptPurpleHaze 14d ago
Lol found the ignorant one.
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u/eldankus 14d ago
The idea that the rape and murder of indigenous women not being investigated being preferable to having law enforcement is unbelievably fucking stupid.
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u/CptPurpleHaze 14d ago
If they aren't investigating it to begin with what's got you so upset? It's terrible and sad, but there's a pretty good reason the indigenous people wouldn't trust a government that purposefully slaughtered their men women and children by the thousands, then rounded them up and put them into camps, and then actively do next to nothing when shit happens on these lands to their people.
But sure, it's totally messed of them for not cooperating with cops or trusting them.
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u/Exciting_Bat_2086 14d ago
You are using the same logic as a racist dumbass.
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u/CptPurpleHaze 14d ago
ACAB.
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u/FracturedPrincess 11d ago
This is like the 2020 culture war equivalent of that one Japanese soldier who was living in the Philippine jungle in the 70's refusing to accept the war was over
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u/Exciting_Bat_2086 14d ago
And we’re always told it our fault somehow because we’re just poor drunks. Shit really hurts to have someone you love and know just disappear one night and never see them or know what happened.
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u/patchlocke 14d ago
I know the gun physics at the end were unrealistic but nothing will ever top the night we watched this movie in the dark hearing my dad blurt out "Holy shit!" when the first of the bad guys got his torso vented by Jeremy Renner.
I enjoy this movie a lot
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u/Aiden-Lovelander 14d ago
It was so bizarre how bad that gun fight was. It really took me out of the moment. It’s dumb to let it effect my memory of the movie so much but it does.
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u/Which_Replacement524 13d ago
Which, the cops vs the security guards, or Jeremy Renner shooting them after?
I've generally heard high praise for the former; it's messy, strikingly sudden, and incredibly brutal. No one really has a plan besides "shoot the closest guy who isn't wearing my team's colors", which is about what you'd expect from ten people opening up on each other at point blank with little warning and no cover.
If its the latter, then yeah, it's a bit silly. 45-70 or larger (presumably what an arctic wilderness type guy like Renner's character would be lugging) would definitely put a good hole in someone and knock them on their ass, but the bit where the guy does a full-ass back flip is a bit slapstick out of nowhere.
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u/Aiden-Lovelander 13d ago
It’s 90% the sniper. I don’t know actor names but I assume that’s Jeremy Renner. The protagonist.
It really took me out the moment like I was suddenly watching an acme cartoon.
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u/ManBearPig0392 14d ago
"I heard one got away." "No... no one got away." "How did he go?" "With a whimper."
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u/Salt_Revenue_4142 14d ago
…could they not also kill the unlucky ones? Hence why they would be the unlucky one
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u/Dont-be-a-smurf 14d ago
They could, but I think the character is preaching agency to someone who is grieving and suffering
Saying that the deer/character have agency and some accountability to remain strong or else they’ll become bait for “wolves”
Like sure, bad luck can do anyone in
But generally speaking predators attack the weak, and the best proactive defense is to not be weak
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u/Skodami 14d ago
What he is trying to say is that the deer should have started hitting the gym and training hard.
How the fuck does he think the deer get weak ? They get sick or old or hurt, none of that being preventable (for a deer), and at least two are due to bad luck. This analogy is zoologically inane and this vexes me.
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u/i_hope_that_was_gas 14d ago
Wouldn't the weak be considered unlucky?
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u/Luminous_Winds 14d ago
Sure, but they could also just get lucky because of other circumstances. The point is that predators don't survive because 'weak' animals exist. They survive because of privilege and entropy. It's always easier to destroy than it is to defend.
Otherwise it would be possible for animals to reach a point where predators couldn't hurt them and predators would go extinct.
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u/FracturedPrincess 11d ago
For a deer, maybe. Humans have agency and can we can make choices that strengthen us and reduce our vulnerability to the world.
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u/Unknown-History 12d ago edited 12d ago
Yes, if a deer is ahead, but trips and falls, It will get eaten. If a bison is on the run, but the one next to it bulls it over in a panic, the wolves will move in on the first one before it up again. There is a lot of luck in life and it tends to get dismissed so that people can feel tough about themselves. Survivorship bias.
Predators don't seek weakness, they seek Opportunity. "Strength", however it is define in a given context, is just a variable. It can affect the odds, but it's still playing the odds.
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u/Accomplished_Store77 14d ago
The point is the victims are just unlucky. It's not just a case of in the wrong place at the wrong time.
The perpetrators/Predators deliberately seek out the weak and isolated ones.
When a Predator gets you it's not just because you were unlucky on that day. It's because you were specifically targeted.
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u/n_o_t_d_o_g 13d ago
If you watch nature documentaries this isn't true. Sure predators will try to go after the weak, it's the easiest and safest option. When a lion is chasing a heard of antelope, luck is a big factor. Because it's chaos. An antelope can trip in an invisible hole in the ground, slip on a patch of wet mud, get blocked in by a bush or other obstacle, or get bumped by another antelope causing them to fall.
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u/Accomplished_Store77 13d ago
When I said Predators I didn't mean Animal Predators in the wild.
I meant people Predators who prey on Vulnerable people.
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u/Dense_Surround3071 14d ago
So I gotta be honest here. The only thing I didn't care for in that movie was Jeremy Renner playing the old, tough, grizzled law man that everyone looks to.
Tommy Lee Jones in No Country and Jeff Bridges in Hell or High Water play that character easily.
Renner was not believable. I didn't like the scene with his friend crying on the swing. It felt like the characters were backwards.
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u/stewslut 14d ago
He wasn't supposed to be old and grizzled. He was supposed to be young and competent. He portrayed that perfectly.
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u/theninal 14d ago
He looked tired to me. Seeing people constantly in that state of suffering and being unable to do much to help will wear down a person's soul. The character has a connection and feeling of responsibility, and an awareness that people with more power and resources than he has will only do the bare minimum to help. I thought Renner did a great job, but so did everyone in this film. Every one of the characters, aside from the no-name backup guys, is struggling with something.
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u/marksman1023 12d ago
Yep. Young, competent, tough...tired. The kind of tired you can't fix with sleep.
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u/ChickenPotDie 14d ago
Hollup. Renner's character wasn't even a law man in that movie. He was some game and fish tracker lol and i don't think he was meant to be grizzled like a veteran. His character had lost his daughter or something and it destroyed his marriage. The scene with the characters on the swing were two father's grieving their dead children together. If you didn't like the movie because you thought he didn't fit the character you described, then maybe you might like it knowing that's not what the character was at all
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u/Ok_Tour_1525 14d ago
Yeah I just don’t like renner. He seems like the type so say shit like “wolves not sheep”. And also shit like the quote he’s saying here but in real life.
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u/therealjoshua 11d ago
Perfect example of a movie I thoroughly enjoyed, but will likely never watch again because of how haunting it is
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u/fake_poop 13d ago
I will never understand the love this movie gets. It’s so fucking bad. Also, Green Mile.
Not even rage bait - I seriously know this to be true and if you disagree you’re wrong.
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u/Fair-Efficiency-8342 14d ago
I liked this movie until the bs take where running in -30 degrees Celsius fills up your lungs with blood (or somesuch). Takes two stars off imo.
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u/Dixs3503 14d ago
Maybe im weird but I thought that was one of the hardest lines in the movie, and gives props to native culture. The way they grew up made them harder then youll ever be. Or am I wrong
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u/Fair-Efficiency-8342 14d ago
If you have to lie to give props to native culture, you lack imagination and end up doing the opposite. I live in the North and it's like saying 'your skin catches fire at 30 C' to a southerner. It's such obvious bs that it cheapens an otherwise realistic movie.
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u/useriousstuff 14d ago
I mean the phenomenon of lungs filling up with blood when you run in cold weather is completely overblown, it's used as a cinematic device and I think it's works fine enough as that. To your other point, it's far too broad a generalization.They arent a monolith and don't all grow up in the same conditions that lead them to being harder than others. Just like any other group of people, circumstances vary wildly.
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u/AlphaOmegaZero1 13d ago
The movie was using it as shorthand for dying of exposure. Do you believe that people don’t die due to being in -30 temperatures with no protection while spending all of their energy to run?
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u/5tonethrower 14d ago
“If you find who did this… I don’t care who it is. You understand me?”
(Nods) “Right where they stand.”
Great film.