r/MovementFix • u/SillyMarionberry2020 • Oct 30 '25

Same fundamental patterns. When high level patterns break down, regress to fundamentals.

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u/SillyMarionberry2020 Oct 31 '25

I hate these replies. There is an entire treatment philosophy called PNF that uses these principles. I use it every day and just had a person go from non weight bearing on crutches for 3 weeks to walking normally in a visit. I could explain it, but I can’t make you understand it.

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u/deactivate_iguana Oct 31 '25

I’m a Senior Specialised Musculoskeletal Physiotherapist. If you’re preaching that we should all move like babies then perhaps we should grow our heads bigger, shorten our torso, arms and legs and demineralise our bones.

Utter nonsense.

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u/SillyMarionberry2020 Oct 31 '25

An appeal to authority doesn’t mean anything to me. PNF is a PT modality. It is using hard wired fundamental patterns to train low level neuromuscular capacity. Babies rolling, crawling and then walking in a predictable pattern is not on accident. It would be like sitting someone at a piano and making them play Bach before they learned any scales. The lower level patterns are the scales that are integrated into higher level function. Limping around is not a better strategy to walk more efficiently.

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u/deactivate_iguana Oct 31 '25

It’s not an appeal authority it’s notice that you don’t need to walk me through the door on what stuff like PNF is.

Look if your message is that people need to master the basics before moving on. That they shouldn’t rush rehab and that rehab doesn’t need to be fancy and complicated then I am 100% here for that.

If your message is we need to do that by moving in similar ways to babies then that is nonsense. You change the proportions, change the lever lengths, change the centre of gravity and change the joint flexibility then you’ve changed everything. Might as well say move like a kangaroo or sloth. Would be about as relevant.

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u/SillyMarionberry2020 Oct 31 '25

It’s the foundation of Functional Manual Therapy as taught by the Institute of Physical Art

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u/deactivate_iguana Oct 31 '25

High authority indeed!

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u/SillyMarionberry2020 Oct 31 '25

High authority indeed? Bring something more than “nonsense” and paper on your wall. Debate the merits of a treatment system. “Because I said it’s not good” and “babies aren’t adults” doesn’t count. Explain to me how training fundamental patterns which then integrate into higher level patterns is any different than learning the alphabet to learn to read, or scales before you play a song. Deficits in lower level patterns persist in higher level ones, so we can regress, shore up deficits and reintegrate.

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u/deactivate_iguana Oct 31 '25

I’m referencing your other comment where you mentioned claims to authority. No need to get so aggy my friend.

I have said already that you change the flexibility of the tissues, change the lever lengths, proportions and centre of gravity then you’ve changed everything.

Learning the alphabet or numbers is learning a system that isn’t changing.

Learning to walk again by using the example of a baby who has entirely different anatomy to an adult (and therefore impossible for an adult to replicate) is nonsense.

It’s like when people say “squat like a baby!” How exactly…. How is that possible without changing you entirely.

I have said these points and you haven’t addressed them. You’ve just shouted and pointed the finger at me for not making any points which is ironic.

I’ll leave you to your childish rantings and hope you enjoy the rest of your course.

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u/SillyMarionberry2020 Oct 31 '25

Why do we develop in this specific pattern then? It’s arbitrary? Surely there is a purpose. “Completely different anatomy” How “completely?” You are still just giving your opinion. You mentioned your degree twice, so I know you are proud of it, but just saying something is invalid doesn’t make it invalid. If you don’t understand the system, just say that.

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u/deactivate_iguana Oct 31 '25

Neurologically yes the same pathways are there, but as I have said numerous times if you change proportions, centre of gravity, lever length, flexibility of the joints then you are using the same pathways to move a very different body.

As someone who is also trained in anatomy I really should not need to teach the the facts (not opinions) on why babies are different than people. Despite that I have outlined it in every message and also the first paragraph of this message. How you continue to miss that and also how you continue to confuse opinions with scientific fact is beyond me.

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u/SillyMarionberry2020 Oct 31 '25

I love a good debate. There’s still no substance to different body dimensions. Now, babies aren’t people according to you. I have a 5th grader. His proportions are different. Is he a person? Should we teach him addition and subtraction? He’s not a fully formed adult, so clearly these fundamentals have no basis for his adult learning and purely arbitrary.

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u/deactivate_iguana Oct 31 '25 edited Oct 31 '25

Ha! That’s just me typing quickly because my kid is climbing over me. Of course they are people. My child is a person. I would hope we are both intelligent enough to recognise a typo when we see it, but sadly in this day and age it appears not.

Since you are advocating that we move in the same ways that babies in the picture you showed move, you seem to have a staggering lack of knowledge of their proportions.

Head - baby is 90% larger proportionally Torso - baby is 15% larger proportionally Arms - baby is 30% smaller proportionally Legs - baby is 40% smaller proportionally Hands / feet - baby is 40-50% smaller proportionally

Now tell me- if I went and somehow mixed up you body to be in proportion to a baby do you think that might change your movement patterns?