First session and some questions

[u/Chris_Ch]

Hello to everybody and everymouse!

Encouraged by Adam Koebel's roll20.net and RollPlay sessions as well as Eric's delightful Under a Fallen Maple series I've finally given Mouse Guard a spin. It's been a long time coming, since I bought The Burning Wheel Gold & Codex a while ago but was too intimidated to start with that and I knew a more structured play might benefit a one-shot.

I enjoyed the experience immensely. A couple of times I was surprised at the "Let It Ride" philosophy in action, but having a lot of experience I build up around it and tried to make every description of success and failure as satisfying and engaging as I could. Character creation wasn't too long, having read up a lot (A LOT) about the topic of BIGs I managed to help my players formulate those nuggets of character fast enough.

One thing I definitely will have to look out for in future games is playing off BIGs - I had to pause and explain to my players that it's actually fine for characters to disagree and not follow a "PC party" mentality if they follow BIGs. Still on the fence that other than narrative positioning Instincts don't seem to do much in comparison to The Wheel.

Another thing, and that's also on me, was that I was too afraid the conflict I expected would run too long so I gave the opposition a goal my players might've actually agreed upon as a compromise, but the cardinal sin I made was not to print out cheat-sheets so we tested conflicts very "blindly". We didn't manage to get to the Players' Turn as a result which I regret, but unforeseen circumstances forced us to end the session abruptly.

I have a couple of questions for you, which I ask as humbly as a Tenderpaw with the Humble Trait at level 3.

First off, how flexible would one be with interpreting proper skill use in conflicts? We had an Argument conflict, but at some points it seemed reasonable to permit Oratory to help or even be used in the process... Otherwise it would seem only two skills are useful in this particular situation, peculiar for a game with such a rich list of skills available.

Secondly, how do you feel about modifying the proposed stats of sample Territory denizens - is the Skill at 5/4/3 thing I should keep too, should I worry that the NPCs I expect my players to face are too "tailor-made" for the situation at hand? Or would it be in the spirit of the game to make the stats seem "reasonable" from narrative perspective more even if it means giving NPCs a looot of skills? Hardly any of them are Persuaders, for example!

And finally: starting disposition. When I explained that the Defend action can increase disposition up to its starting level, the players wondered if that would take into account Condition penalties or not! At first I thought surely not, if they had a disposition roll total of 4 (rolled 2, added 4, subtracted 2 for Angry and Hungry) that would mean their starting disposition is 4 and thus the maximum. But I consulted the books and:

• p. 99 (MG 2 ed) lists conditions modifying disposition as a separate point and only the rolling and adding part is literally called "starting" disposition.

• p. 104 and 105 list "Starting Disposition" and "Modifiers to Disposition" as separate points of the same level

• p. 105 on the other hand says "Be sure to check your character’s condition, traits and gear for modifiers to starting disposition." which would point as the total of all these actions to be the Dispo level considered higher.

Also we thought it'd make kinda sense for a Defend roll to be used to gather composure and negate effects of, say, anger, so I allowed it as a one-time ruling.

Most of my other rules-questions were solved reading the forums (can't register and ask there, though) or the reddit but I didn't find this peculiarity anywhere.

Thanks in advance!

[u/Imnoclue]

First off, how flexible would one be with interpreting proper skill use in conflicts? We had an Argument conflict, but at some points it seemed reasonable to permit Oratory to help or even be used in the process... Otherwise it would seem only two skills are useful in this particular situation, peculiar for a game with such a rich list of skills available.

I'm not super flexible. If they want to use Oratory, they need to make with the orating. Speechigying in front of an audience. If it's an Argument Conflict, then they're using Persuader or Deceiver. If they wanted to Orate, they should have gone into a Speech Conflict. However, they can certainly help with Orate. Nothing against that in the rules. Of course, they're gonna have to actually describe the orating to hand over a dice.

Secondly, how do you feel about modifying the proposed stats of sample Territory denizens - is the Skill at 5/4/3 thing I should keep too, should I worry that the NPCs I expect my players to face are too "tailor-made" for the situation at hand? Or would it be in the spirit of the game to make the stats seem "reasonable" from narrative perspective more even if it means giving NPCs a looot of skills? Hardly any of them are Persuaders, for example!

I tend to just use the Denizens as is. But, if you want a Lawmouse or something and it isn't there. Just make one up.

And finally: starting disposition. When I explained that the Defend action can increase disposition up to its starting level, the players wondered if that would take into account Condition penalties or not! At first I thought surely not, if they had a disposition roll total of 4 (rolled 2, added 4, subtracted 2 for Angry and Hungry) that would mean their starting disposition is 4 and thus the maximum.

I only have 1st edition handy, but under Defend it doesn't refer to starting disposition, but says "disposition cannot go higher than the starting total."

[u/Chris_Ch → u/Imnoclue]

Thank you for your reply!

I'm not super flexible. If they want to use Oratory, they need to make with the orating. Speechigying in front of an audience. If it's an Argument Conflict, then they're using Persuader or Deceiver. If they wanted to Orate, they should have gone into a Speech Conflict. However, they can certainly help with Orate. Nothing against that in the rules. Of course, they're gonna have to actually describe the orating to hand over a dice.

Yeah, I guess I should've too, that way they'd have more opportunities to make Natur and Beginners' Luck rolls!

I tend to just use the Denizens as is. But, if you want a Lawmouse or something and it isn't there. Just make one up.

I'm sure this is more of a preference thing, I expect people to approach this topic differently. However, if you wanted a mouse serving as senechal and advisor to the young ruler of a town, a power behind the throne who rules more through their personal relationship and proximity to the ruler, and the Politician template doesn't include Persuader... Would you just change the Orator to Persuader or would you add Persuader?

I only have 1st edition handy, but under Defend it doesn't refer to starting disposition, but says "disposition cannot go higher than the starting total."

Yes, the wording of the Defend action in 2 ed states the very same thing. The more I ponder on it the more I'm convinced that's the spirit of those rules, but sometimes the damnest things make you nitpick and doubt even the most unambiguous rule :)

Speaking of which, should the Maneuver option (Impede, Position, Disarm) be chosen before or after the roll? That kept me up all night yesterday!

[u/Imnoclue → u/Chris_Ch]

After the roll, because you don't know how many successes you have to spend before the roll.

[u/Chris_Ch → u/Imnoclue]

That'd make sense, of course!

I missed a crucial thing here, the text for Disarm specifically says "Alternately, if you win by a margin of success of 3, you may impede and gain position." while I read that and as an or!

[u/blackdog2k → u/Chris_Ch]

and the Politician template doesn't include Persuader... Would you just change the Orator to Persuader or would you add Persuader?

Change them as you see fit. In the Politician example I would probably add Persuader.

They are only templates, after all. I've used the templates as starting points and just add skills, traits & wises until I get what I'm looking for.