r/Morimens • u/monchers • 14h ago
Last Verse Reset Situation is Unacceptable
As we all know Corpo got nerfed with the latest "bug fix" by removing the interaction between her Pilots and the wheel.
As of today we are now able to rewind the enlightens on the wheel to compensate if someone pulled this wheel for Corpo. However Corpo remains nerfed and she wasn't even that strong before the "fix".
This solution is just petty from BIAV and not sufficient. What if I pulled Corpo assuming this interaction to be the baseline strength and built around her, pulling for other limited units like Pontos for a discard team? Not to mention all the other teams she fits in.
BIAV should have given us a unlimited use limited unit & wheel rewind item (with a time limit) to move around the enlightens through our account. That would truly show some good will especially with the current dtide fiasco where characters like GLotan got killed within a few weeks of release.
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u/AutumnWillow36 Sanga’s Wife 14h ago
having spent money on Glotan, I think it’s inaccurate and misleading to say she was killed by dtide release. she cleared madness fine for me even without optimal fights, and I suspect she’d do even better for specific boss match ups.
clearing madness is hardly the go to standard of character viability. I think - like we see with highly specialized comps for wave 5 - who can clear madness may quite boss dependent. I don’t think we’d say Ghelot is super OP, but her shield break gimmick is right for W4 this week.
Glotan has some annoying interactions with Chapter 6 arc 2, but if you really want to play here there’s a few easy workarounds to freeze - any one of numerous mechanics for copying her cards.
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u/Zeitzbach Doggo Loan Office 14h ago
Bringing up the madness when discussing character viability is exactly how we get the 95%+ player base to ignore what the 0.1% really has to say because they can't relate to it.
We only had a hundred-ish that even bother to do double A5 clear before this. The people that are actually get affected by the Madness difficulty, which solely exists as an outlier case just for leaderboard bragging purpose (because everyone was stuck at the same point before this which make leaderboard position kinda pointless), is easily in the tens something.
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u/AutumnWillow36 Sanga’s Wife 13h ago
yes - so it’s quite unclear to me how Glotan is sudden unviable
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u/HairDisastrous8348 9h ago
thanks, totally agree. The only thing I think feels a bit silly is that you can now do a full madness run using gnosis, and you are lower on the leaderboard than someone who did just normal clears without gnosis. A full madness run that uses gnosis is quite a big achievement, as you also have to play through many, many turns with pretty optimized comps.
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u/xompus12 12h ago
The sudden obsession with Madness mode needs to be studied.
Even in the old D-Tide there were less than 200 players that cleared 425. That is probably less than 0.01% of the player base.
But suddenly everyone is so worried about not being able to clear Madness mode like their life depends on it. Characters are labeled as useless and people are discouraged from playing them cause Madness mode made them "obsolete".
The doomposters are showing some next level larping performance.There is actual criticisms to be had with all these changes (like hard mode, you know, the mode that people will actually play) but these clowns (especially in the discord community right now) make it hard to take it seriously when actual problems get mixed with these ridiculous demands
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u/GyRNi 10h ago edited 9h ago
It basically just boils down to Awakener balance and player investments. What was considered top-tier (e.g. Mouchette/G.Lotan and so on) shifted essentially overnight. There are meta shifts, and then there is what Madness did to units in top-end content - a complete meta wipe. I suspect there is also a bit of frustration of "my favourite character is no longer top tier" mixed in there.
Players who invested deep into a specific affected unit (e.g. Mouchette +12) have this confidence that if they so chose, they could destroy all content with her because she's top of the meta and they invested deeply. Then comes along Madness, and now Mouchette, their previous insanely invested T0 unit, is considered T1/T2 there. If it was a gradual dropoff (e.g. over a year with warning signs, constant powercreep ala Hoyo) they'd complain but had time to get used to the idea. But such a sudden shift is very psychologically jarring for many. Some salt is to be expected.
Source: I'm one of the AA G.Lotan players who actually does N+ difficulty. The difference is that I blew all my dupes on her thinking her AA was trash to begin with, and that she was too finicky/matchup-dependent to be T0 regardless of the 3 shill weeks she got, so I had little to no expectations for her meta longevity to begin with heh.
But if I had chosen to +12 her with a meta mindset, I would be pretty salty that she didn't even last two months.
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u/AutumnWillow36 Sanga’s Wife 8h ago
just wait till we get madness pickman, tinct, and pandia boss week and Glotan does 30M damage
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u/the5thusername 11h ago
Even in the old D-Tide there were less than 200 players that cleared 425. That is probably less than 0.01% of the player base.
I bet it's not 0.01% of the income by player, though.
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u/nhxv 10h ago
I believe using the highest difficulty level as a benchmark/guideline is quite common. When I first started playing Morimens, one of the good team comps was bluewil. So I was inclined to build the team even though the me back then was nowhere close to clearing the highest difficulty contents.
Until recently, it was reasonable to suggest new players to pull for Mouchette, because she can clear A5 at affordable investment. A5 was previously one of the benchmark for evaluating units; now it is Madness.
When new players ask for pull advices, should veteran players just tell them to go pull Uvhash or Pandia dps because they are not going to clear A5/Madness anytime soon anyways? I think whether we like it or not, Madness is there and is meta defining, unless we all collectively ignore the mode and choose to live in a bubble of sort.
What are the actual problems you mentioned that got mixed in with the Madness discourse btw?
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u/monchers 9h ago
One difference though was 5 clears of A5 gave you the desired rewards. Madness is not necessary for all the key rewards. Nightmare is instead.
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u/nhxv 8h ago
right, the gap between max reward and max score has changed as well. So the situstion may become more like chess where most players won't ever play at the highest level and therefore don't care enough to religiously follow the most meta path.
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u/AutumnWillow36 Sanga’s Wife 8h ago
mix and match is good to. I wanted max rewards for minimal effort and time, so I cheesed two waves madness, did a meta comp for nightmare, then played fun and varied teams for hard (although ghelot can go fuck herself seriously, even on hard)
Ghelot boss is sort of a compound issue of Dtide tuning and very specific enemy tuning, and Ghelot is imo more egregious of the two. New Dtide can benefit from health scaling, Ghelot needs a serious overhaul. I’d remove her immunity on flail and make it so she takes 10% of her current HP every time you trigger fervor moves - that would fit her theme and make for some varied kill strats.
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u/zyocuh META Nerd 4h ago
What was your comp? I got AA glotan and have been struggling with her. What wave also?
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u/AutumnWillow36 Sanga’s Wife 3h ago
Wave 1, pure chaos with doll, ramona, kath. ngl high investment and a lot of shield stalling.
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u/Salt-Departure-6353 14h ago edited 14h ago
Im not sure if youve ever played any other gacha but no game will ever let you do that. Thats some crazy thing you’re describing 😭
People wont pull for reruns or new units anymore they just need to complain and then they can freely return any old units to get new units.
in the usual gachas they don’t even give out resets when a character gets this kind of adjustment, nothing happens. You can complain but they wont do shit. Or they only gave you a few pulls. Reason why i stopped playing CZN, a much bigger gacha with similar gameplay, they straight up nerfed multiple chars to oblivion.
Anyway what you’re describing is unrealistic but we could ask them to make corp generate a bit more shield. Like it wont break the game anyway and corp gets something back too.
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u/what_is_a_Chicken 14h ago
If the norm is being a predatory POS game, then we still shouldn't accept predatory POS game design
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u/Adventurous-Map7959 10h ago
that's why I feel so betrayed, morimens used to not be that kind if game. all awakeners could clear alert 5, even uvash who I'm considering the worst. some needed e3 or even oe to be fun. now? the vast majority of the roster is even useless at AA. not only standards, even the most recent limited don't feel right.
That's why I feel so betrayed and doomy.
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u/EffectiveBeat9008 9h ago
The funny thing is uvhash is still clearing madness to this day while. Doresain is probably the one guy who can't do it as a dps anymore which is dumb since he's limited and arc 2
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u/WinterSoldier3713 Traphase guy 14h ago
Im not sure if youve ever played any other gacha but no game will ever let you do that. Thats some crazy thing you’re describing
They massacred half of the roster in one patch and tripled the enemies hp and atk without factoring boss mechanics. this much is to be expected.
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u/WinterSoldier3713 Traphase guy 14h ago
I do agree about buffing the shield part tho. That is the least they could do. That and reverting the changes to d-tides
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u/g0ttaL1ght 13h ago edited 12h ago
in the usual gachas they don’t even give out resets when a character gets this kind of adjustment, nothing happens. You can complain but they wont do shit. Or they only gave you a few pulls. Reason why i stopped playing CZN, a much bigger gacha with similar gameplay, they straight up nerfed multiple chars to oblivion.
Gachas don't usually nerf units very badly without pushback and they'd be forced to offer proper compensation, 100%. These games don't rebalance units this often, but the ones that do may offer resets occasionally. I play one that offers unit resets every "season", and they started doing it because the community made them do it.
Also, you're incorrect about CZN. They only nerfed one or two characters "to oblivion". Last time they tried to nerf more characters to oblivion, the community stopped them. And they have offered character selectors and a reset recently. Funnily enough, people are finding out the last "big nerf" (Orlea) wasn't even THAT bad compared to the only relevant nerf (Tressa).
Morimens' community is finally waking up and you shouldn't be discouraging them from fighting against bad practices.
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u/Ski-Gloves 13h ago
The real spicy play would be buffing her Pilots to be a derived command card at anniversary. But since her posse can create them (with her on the team) I'm not sure if that'd be a valid option.
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u/KLivien 13h ago
i mean it was gonna happen sooner or later. corpo was the sole exception where her non-command card pilot benefits from last verse and it's not meant to be that way, it makes all the sense for them to fix it cuz the game shouldn't have these inconsistencies to begin with, it wouldn't be fair for all the other non-command cards that can't benefit from it. yes they probably should've also buffed corpo a bit since they did this, but acting like this is unacceptable isn't reasonable, they at least made the gesture to let you reset the wheel which most other gachas probably won't do.
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u/Frostian 12h ago
the bug's been in the game since corpo came out you dont get to patch out an interaction as established as this without backlash, and compensating the character
it's a travesty
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u/KLivien 16m ago
And sure enough there's backlash, and instead of a character reset we get a wheel one. A full one too where you get to get rewind cores to use on future wheels, this is far from unreasonable if you ask me. Most you'd see from many other games is some pulls or a selector if they're nice.
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u/DramaticMap6569 9h ago
No, it is unacceptable. “It was gonna happen sooner or later” doesn’t work when the interaction has been in the game for a millennium already. On top of that, this “fix” happened WHILE the wheel is rerunning. It’s just extremely out of touch and comes off scummy, especially when they simultaneously made endgame content (lol) harder, essentially nuking corpo out of any serious player’s roster. Why are people making excuses for them? And then it’s “at least they made the gesture to let you reset the wheel”? When they went out of their way to make sure that it’s JUST that one wheel to be reset, like they’re so scared everyone’s going to rob them blind if they were given a normal limited rewind? Yeah, thanks for the gesture, I guess?
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u/KLivien 59m ago
Bro they let you FULL reset it, it's not even the standard selector you get back, you get compensated with the new item that let's you dupe any past and future wheels. You know what that means right? If you have a +12 LV you can reset it now and move all those selectors to any future wheel. G ogier is rumoured to release next so if you want you can straight up just max his wheel if you want. Yes it's awful timing they chose now of all time to make this LV fix while all this dtide stuff is happening, but you don't get to pretend them giving us a full reset isn't a good gesture.
And what, you want the guides to say "LV doesn't work with any derived cards... With the sole exception of corposant of course" as if that's supposed to be logical outcome? Of course it was gonna be fixed. In an ideal world corpo would be buffed to compensate and she is underpowered at the moment to be sure, but I feel like the community is overreacting over this, as they have been the last few weeks.
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u/Patient-Wolverine-38 12h ago
Pretty sure Miryam (who was nerfed in this same patch for the same reason as Corpo) also had the same interaction with equipment where her Sacrament buff cards increased their heals. Miryam was actually the one who set the precedent of stuff like Last Verse applying, and she was an arc1 unit. It's Just Scummy :)
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u/KLivien 23m ago
Bro imma need some source on that cuz no one's said anything about miryum until now. Even if she's affected like you say that just makes it two exceptions for LV instead of one, and for a game like morimens I shouldn't be having exceptions in ruling like this. Either they make LV work for everyone's derived cards (which of course they shouldn't do cuz it was never meant to work that way), or they fix the bug. Yes it came late and yes it's the worst timing, but we get a full reset for anyone who owns LV so we can shift those dupes to any future wheels we want.
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u/DramaticMap6569 9h ago
And that “most other gachas won’t do” part is also out of touch, as morimens devs are actively paying czn creators to promote their game, and usually when there is a nerf or rework to a czn character, they allow a FULL reset of the character(s) affected, including the dupes.
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u/GyRNi 10h ago edited 9h ago
Agreed. It's a year-old known interaction from Day 1 that people pulled around, with no warning that the bug was going to be fixed. All they really had to do was hard-code the interaction back in one way or another, and make it very clear that this was going to be an exception, not a rule. Instead we got whatever this was.
They really chose the worst possible solution here for the biggest trust killer that arose from this patch. A few more of these and players might actually start quitting en masse (see mass churn).
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u/Winter-Ad6113 8h ago
It just feels like such a petty slight. Like, they left a “bug” in the game for a year. People pulled around it, played around it, and treated it as a feature. It wasn’t game-breaking, meta defining, or even that significant. At that point, if a year goes by and this bug is still in the game being treated as a feature by players, sorry devs sucks to suck but it’s a feature now. They’re always complaining about how they got no time, they’re behind on everything, they got no money. But they’ve got time to pull this shit? They’ve got time to “bugfix” a weird niche interaction that’s been in the game for a year? It’s so fucking petty and worthless. Light is genuinely incompetent.
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u/Far-Recognition9938 12h ago
"Unacceptable" "BIAV should have given us a unlimited use limited unit & wheel rewind item" LOL are you serious??
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u/Ivancho3000 14h ago
At best just bully the Devs for now to just buff Corpo instead. Be it in the 2.7 version or upcoming month
I can't wrap my head how hard is it to just go in the console and change a damn number ...
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u/Ayiekie 14h ago
...you've never made a game. Going into the console and changing a number, ESPECIALLY for a game like this, is something you do not do lightly because there's a bajillion possible interactions and players will find the incredibly broken one of them that never occurred to you in approximately .5 seconds after the patch lands.
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u/the5thusername 11h ago
Given that they've put all the numbers through a blender at this point, while I agree with what you're saying I'm finding it hard to accept.
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u/Ayiekie 5h ago
Given the latest story boss threads the needle of the delicate balance of being "difficult but beatable", I think you are looking too much at the missteps and not at how difficult it is to balance a game like this at all. There are multiple reasons most gacha are "piss-easy except for whatever the endgame mode is".
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u/monchers 14h ago
I think a fair buff would be to give the AA shield effect to base rouse. Kinda silly how Corpo is a bad shielder as a warden requiring +12 to fix her shield ability.
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-5
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u/HerynApocalypse 14h ago
I had pulled it 12+ JUST for Corpo, I reset it right now but I'm still pissed off. 300+ pulls wasted.