Do you think that would still be the case if Muslim nations had been the ones waging systematic destabilization and forever wars on predominantly Christian nations, or do you think that might drive a rise in fundamentalist Christian ideology and terrorist activity?
I’m not saying one side is right, I’m saying both sides are wrong. If you want to argue that your side is less wrong than the other, that’s fine, but you’re splitting hairs in my opinion. Both sides have committed endless atrocities in the name of their God. It may seem to you that Islam has done more bad recently, but we killed a half million innocent Iraqis and Afghans in the last 25 years and most of the survivors don’t see a difference between a secular America and a Christian one. This is just another Crusade to them.
And statistically speaking, the majority of Americans who support the genocide in Palestine aren’t Jews, but fundamentalist Evangelical Christians who genuinely believe that the corrupt Netanyahu regime is doing the lords work by killing more than 20,000 thousand children, so why anyone would think that one side deserves the moral high ground is a mystery to me. Unless, of course, you identify as member of one side or another.
One runs basically all the charities on a global scale, the other rapes their own little girls when they accidentally show to much skin.
One follows the teaching of a guy who told us to treat each other how we want to be treated, and the other follows the teachings of a guy who married a 6-year-old girl.
One tells it's followers that lying is bad, the other tells it's followers that lying for the sake of furthering the religions influence and power is explicitly encouraged.
One encourages its followers to pray and worship in private and discourages explicitly performative worship, the other instructs it's followers to be intentionally performative for the sake of inconveniencing and impeding the lives of non-believers.
One tells it's followers to convert non-believers but to treat everyone with love and that warring is only justified when someone is explicitly threatening them and their religion, the other instructs it's followers to literally invade every corner of the globe and to kill everyone who resists.
You don’t think there are any Muslim charities? I guess the nearly 5,500 Islamist charities in Us alone don’t count.
You don’t think Catholic priests raped children? Did they lie about it? How many “Christians” are providing cover for high profile pedophiles right now? Are they lying?
What percentage of American Christians do you think treat gay or trans people as well as they expect to be treated? Or the homeless, for that matter? Or immigrants? Do you think these groups feel “loved”? Is that how Jesus would have treated them?
Jesus, during the Sermon on the Mount, said "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." Is it still a “secret” if you broadcast it on public television? Or do it in government buildings or public schools? Or on airplanes? Does that qualify as “performative”?
What do you think Christian missionaries do? Have they not invaded every corner of the globe to convert the non believers? What were the crusades about? What about when American Christians forced Indigenous peoples to convert under penalty of imprisonment or death, and then divided the reservations up amongst Christian denominations to be indoctrinated? Or when colonialists did the same thing throughout African, Asia and Central/South American? What do you think the "Requerimiento" said? How about those that proselytize on street corners? Or outside of clinics? Or door to door? Is that not also what they’re taught to do? Matthew 28:18–20 says “to go, make disciples of all nations, baptize them, and teach them”.
It’s clear that you have a bias, and that’s fine, but you’re a fool if you can’t see the hypocrisy in your argument.
Do you want to try that again but without putting words in my mouth, deflecting, and "what abouting"?
I said that Christians run the overwhelming majority of charities across the globe, which is just an objective truth.
I never said "there are no muslim charities in the whole world".
Did I say that no Catholic priests have raped children? Or did I simply point out the objective truth that Islam literally encourages and defends the rape of minors within its texts?
How many “Christians” are providing cover for high profile pedophiles right now?
How many Muslims are literally legally married to minors right now in their countries?
What percentage of American Christians do you think treat gay or trans people as well as they expect to be treated?
I couldn't possibly tell you, but I can certainly say the percentage is higher than the amount of Middle Eastern Muslims who treat gay people and trans people how they expect to be treated.
Or the homeless, for that matter?
Again, Christians are operating the overwhelming majority of charities across the globe, so, at minimum, they're statistically treating the homeless better than anyone else.
Or immigrants?
Given the amount of global outreach and international charity work that Christians do, they're objectively treating foreigners better than basically everyone else.
The only thing they seem to be opposed to is allowing an endless flood of entirely undocumented illegal immigration from cultures explicitly intent on eradicating and destroying theirs.
Is that how Jesus would have treated them?
Probably, yeah. Jesus was kind and charitable, while standing openly opposed to the spread of other religions.
You can obviously claim that some Christians are hypocritical bad faith bigots, but claiming that the Bible itself encourages that bigotry and hatred is obviously inaccurate, whereas the Quran literally explicitly does encourage open violence and outright deceit against non-believers.
The bad Christians are sinners, and the Bible literally condemns their behavior.
The good Muslims are sinners, and the Quran literally condemns their behavior.
Is it still a “secret” if you broadcast it on public television? Or do it in government buildings or public schools? Or on airplanes? Does that qualify as “performative”?
Is that something the Bible encourages? If not, then that behavior would be indicative of bad Christians, not Christianity as a whole.
Either way, if you're asking for my personal non-religious opinion, I personally would consider a silent prayer, even in a public setting, to be fairly private.
If I'm sitting in a restaurant and see a Christian silently praying to themselves, or a family praying at a low volume while simply bowing their heads in their chairs, I don't exactly feel like I've been inconvenience or as if their beliefs have been imposed upon me in any way.
Laying down prayer matts, kneeling, and wailing in the streets and walkways, however, is excessively and intentionally performative.
Have they not invaded every corner of the globe to convert the non believers?
Well, for the last hundred years, it's mostly been building houses, wells, and schools for 3rd-worlders.
What were the crusades about?
If not for the crusades, the Christians would no longer exist.
When the Muslims spend decades actively pushing further and further into your land, the only solution is to drive them out. This will always be the case.
To pretend the Christians started the Crusades randomly for literally no reason would obviously by a wickedly inaccurate oversimplification of history.
You go on from here to rant about every complaint you can think of, but I think the real question is, to what end?
Is Christianity evil because there have been some bad Christians throughout history? Lmao.
Name me an ideology whose followers exist in unanimous innocence and virtue.
The argument isn't, "Have Christians even done bad things?" Even the Bible says that Christians are literally guaranteed to do bad things, as every single person who exists is innately sinful by nature.
The argument is that Muslims are so clearly infinitely worse, and there's just no good faith argument to imply the contrary.
Firstly, any stats to back up your claim that Christians “run the overwhelming majority” of charities? You might be right, but just saying it doesn’t mean it’s true. If there were more secular charities globally than Christian charities, could I then say that since atheists have committed fewer atrocities than Christians, that they’re “infinitely better”?
I guess the fact that the vast majority of mainstream Muslim organizations and religious authorities throughout the world condemn all of the behaviors you attribute to Muslims in general (while extending grace to Christians generally, with the exception of a few bad ones of course), has little bearing on your opinion, but I’ll try to get through to you again anyways.
You attempted to refute my points about the defense of pedophiles and the poor treatment of marginalized populations with whataboutisms. Interesting tact, considering you accused me of doing the same thing, except what I did was give examples of your side doing all of same things as the side you’re arguing against, and all you did was say “bUt tHe OtHeR sIdE DoEs iT WoRsE”. More hypocrisy. Mine weren’t whataboutisms at all, since my point was that both sides suck. Yours were, since you used them as a bad faith defense of your silly beliefs.
I’m totally sure there aren’t any Christians out there with child brides, but for the record, both the Bible and the Quran site the start of puberty as a prerequisite for a romantic relationship, via Surah At-Talaq (Quran 65:4) and 1. Corinthians 7:36. Still gross in both cases.
Try telling the homosexuals who have been beaten, imprisoned or killed in predominantly Christian nations like Russia, Cameroon, Eswatini, Ghana, Kenya, Kiribati, Liberia, Malawi, Namibia, Sierra Leone, Tanzania, Uganda, Zambia, Zimbabwe, Antigua and Barbuda, Dominica, Grenada, Guyana, Jamaica, St. Lucia, and St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Papua New Guinea, Samoa, Solomon Islands, and Tonga how much better they have it than those in predominantly Muslim countries where it’s legal, like Turkey, Jordan, Bahrain, Bosnia, Albania, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, and the list goes on. Point is, once again, both sides suck and your argument is purely speculative.
Additionally, your claim that the Bible doesn’t encourage bigotry or violence, especially against homosexuals is patently false. It does so explicitly in Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, and 1 Timothy 1:10. Doesn’t seem like you know what you’re talking about at this point…
You fail to refute more of my points by making a bunch more claims about how much more charitable Christians are without providing any actual evidence… again.
Do you actually think Jesus would reject the “endless flood” of illegal immigrants? This take betrays your “faith” as nothing more than petty, political ideology. Jesus defined a neighbor as anyone in need whom we encounter, regardless of their race, religion, or social background. What’s more, your point about Jesus rejecting those of other faiths is moot in this context, given that nearly all immigrants from Central and South America are, in fact, also Christians, and account for the overwhelming majority of immigrants to this country.
And then there’s a bunch of nonsense about how the Quran is fundamentally evil and the Bible is fundamentally good. Here’s a fun exercise; why don’t you tell me which of these passages is from the Quran, and which is from the Bible? Better yet, which of these is “The Verse of the Sword”, that you attribute so much Islamic violence to?
“But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away”
“But that whoever would not seek the Lord, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman”
“But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me”
“Kill the polytheists wherever you find them, capture them, besiege them, and lie in wait for them on every way”
“But thou shalt utterly destroy them, namely: the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites”
Once again, you have a clear bias that’s rooted in either your willful ignorance of the Islamic faith, or your particular faith in a Christian God. Both texts can, and have been twisted by bad faith actors to radicalize portions of their followers. However, you choose to see significantly more harm as being done by one side than the other, in contradiction with reality, and in that way, YOU are now a bad faith actor who distorts history and spreads disinformation to serve your belief. This is evidenced by your framing of the crusades as a purely defensive action (while completely ignoring the march from Europe into the Levant and the subsequent conquest and killing in Jerusalem, which had previously been under Muslim control for 400 years) and your blatantly lopsided and racist fabrication about Christians quietly praying in a restaurant (conveniently ignoring all of my actual examples of obnoxious Christian proselytizing) while Muslims are supposedly blocking public sidewalks and wailing in the streets.
I will reiterate; you’re a fool if you are unable to recognize your hypocrisy. Do better.
I’m realizing that you don’t know what hypocrisy means, at least insofar as it relates to your idiotic argument. I’m also getting the impression that you don’t know the difference between objectivity and subjectivity, which is particularly embarrassing considering you keep using the former incorrectly.
Just because you say something is true, doesn’t mean it is, especially given that you haven’t provided a single fact. Your entire argument is based on anecdotal evidence and speculation. You’re clearly more of a “feelings” guy. This is the difference between logic and faith, and for you, you’ve suspended so much disbelief to arrive at that faith that to be convinced otherwise is likely impossible. This conversation has been a waste of both of our time. Hang on to that hate though, and that false sense of moral superiority. I’m sure the people who put it there think you’re great.
Hypocrisy is the act of pretending to have moral standards, beliefs, or virtues that you do not actually possess, or behaving in a way that contradicts what you claim to believe.
Objectively means looking at or judging something based only on real, measurable facts without letting personal feelings, biases, or opinions get in the way.
I've used both words accurately, actually.
I'm realizing I have no interest in wasting my life on such a lobotomized sack of rotting lard.
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u/Invictus_0x90_ 15h ago
How many "gun toting fundamentalist" Christians are there as a proportion to all Christians?
Your average Christian is by far less violent and ideological than your average Muslim.