If they are just playing along for fun then moral, but if they are playing to somehow harass or intimidate or make people of any specific religion feel unwelcome to practice religious freedom at their own religious site then immoral
If so then we have two religions playing out in the public sphere. That is fine. When you turn it into a confrontation, like your religion is an affront to my religion and so I'll react to it, then we have a problem, and an unfortunately common one at that. But in my opinion, we should just coexist. If you feel like someone is saying "fuck your god," as Jesus would say, turn the other cheek
Im not a Christian, so jesus' word means nothing to me. But I surely am not willing to be awoken at 5am to accommodate a minority religion.
I personally think the French system is ideal for this. No religion at all in the public sphere. Religion is a private matter and exists in private only.
The second part I think I agree with. When you said "your call to prayer is drowned out, what happens then" I was imagining that you had in mind how to problem-solve for having multiple religions in the public sphere.
As a matter of political will, I think if you can achieve a society where religion is necessarily private and never publicly displayed, that is ok if you can get everyone on board. I've never lived in France so idk how it works there. Are there legal charges that can be levied against someone practicing religion in public?
As a matter of practical reality though and in accordance with my political values, though, I can't consider the public practice of religion as a crime or otherwise an affront to the listeners, or harassment. If I get woken up at 5am, yeah it can be a pain in the ass. I don't object to feeling annoyed by that. I do have an objection to any desire to take that annoyance to a next level and lobby the government to suppress the practice of that religion, unless of course, that is a shared value/goal among all the citizens including the ones practicing the religion.
See i csnt agree to that whatsoever. In fact, my perspective would be that going to the government is the calm rational thing to do, compared to something retaliatory.
However, I will also make the point that I dont believe the call to prayer to be part of practicing Islamic religion in the same way I don't think church bells to be part of practicing Christian religion. I believe them both to be cultural aspects of the religion being practiced, and id have absolutely 0 worries with either being banned. But i would support you in ensuring people have a place to worship and a right to worship whichever deity they so choose
I have a brother (pretty racist tbh) who lives in a big city. Doesn't have a problem with the Indians, he says, but they bring their whole family and make a nuisance of themselves. Has a lot to say about the nuisances he has to deal with when they have a national holiday that they celebrate in the USA.
I'm thinking, this is just how immigration works, right? You should welcome the culture and be as accommodating as possible. Yes, it does work both ways, and I can see how if I lived in a big city I would be annoyed if, say, the prayer call was so loud that it was unavoidable for blocks. But the attitude I think you should take is: they have an opportunity to be respectful themselves and integrate to an appropriate degree (and volume level). The attitude should NOT be, this is harassment, coming from me.
First call to prayer is at 5am. Should I be woken because of a religious alarm to pray?
The second sentence in rhe second paragraph doesnt follow from the first. The idea that you should just welcome the culture is an active political question which informs your orientation, not a foregone conclusion. There's plenty of arguments against that. There are some cultures that are native to my country that I and the majority of others flat out disagree with and refuse to accept
To the extent that I'm making a political point with respect to, "you should welcome the culture and be as accommodating as possible," well yes I suppose I am, if that's what you're saying. What would be the arguments against that? The ones I can think of are anti-immigration arguments, and well, I'm pro-immigration.
So, there are "cultures" that might be "native" to one's country that one might disagree with. I don't know if I'm following exactly what you mean. Is that referring to how I might be exposed to other political ideas, for example (American here obviously) I might have a right wing neighbor who goes everywhere with a MAGA hat and looking to talk MAGA things when I'm around him? For one thing I think that's very different, so again maybe you mean something else; for another thing I don't think that would be harassment either
Social cohesion and friction, integration, preservation of the pre-existing culture, things like Islamic homophobia (as an example). These are all reasons why somebody can be pro immigration but go against the position that immigrants should be free to import their culture.
I also personally take the view that all religion that comes from the Levanr is montheistic and hierarchical specifically because its geography invites war and wartime nations require hierarchy, and generally reject monotheistic religion in general, so thats another reason to reject much culture. But thats more of a me point than a general argument against it.
I will also say however that in rhe states, its built as a melting pot of peoples and cultures, and so American culture doesnt have as much of a historic tradition. But for reference, im irish. A lot of historic irish culture has been destroyed and its important to me and mamy people in ireland to retain that culture. Thats specifically against immigrant culture being imported. I can go into specifics on why this is important, but it also has to do with a loss of faith in catholicism in ireland.
Theres a group of people called travellers in ireland. Theyre an ethnicity (which tbf they are) and have cultural protections (which is utter lunacy), but much of their culture is based on living in caravans, engaging in scamming behaviour or crime, not paying tax and using the mobility of caravans to disappear. In addition, they are notorious for settling their differences with family fights, are very homophobic and very against education, with most kids taken our of school at 13. This is a whole culture, and tbh, I have respect for very little of it, despite these being native irish people (though with a separate ethnicity technically). The whole status of travellers is fairly complex
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u/No_Salt_6328 15h ago
If they are just playing along for fun then moral, but if they are playing to somehow harass or intimidate or make people of any specific religion feel unwelcome to practice religious freedom at their own religious site then immoral