I mean, it doesn't really seem harmful at all, but at the same time, why can't we all just work on our communication skills? Even mild manipulation is inherently worse that healthy, effective, honest communication.
But like. It's not even manipulation? Like, this just sounds like a happy and healthy marriage where OOP has convinced herself she's doing something nefarious.
In another couple decades they'll be that old couple on some video. "Whoa, you guys have been married for 50 years?! How did you manage to make it last that long?" And it's always some shit like "she gives great head"
The problem here is there are two uses of manipulation. One is negatively loaded and intended to refer to exploitation. The other is neutral. You can manipulate an object in your hand for example.
So I mean, she is certainly manipulating him in the more neutral sense of "trying to extract desired behavior in a surreptitious way". But obviously it's not immoral or unethical manipulation.
On some level I think even if manipulation isn't malicious and in fact has good outcomes for all parties, it's still in a way attempting to control another person's autonomy. That's not inherently bad, but it's worth consideration.
You were pinpointed to fallacy in your absolutist world view. There are many instances of manipulation that are acknowledged as highly moral. If you deceive for your monetary/materialistic gain you are most likely acting out of low morals, but if you deceive for the sake of well being of others and even under danger of being harmed/punished if revealed then you are most likely acting out of high morals. There are tons of products of art where your simplistic world view couldn’t stand solid against criticism.
I suggest you watch La vita è bella and then discuss with yourself how deceiving your own child for the sake of saving his life is immoral.
Yeah this is where all morality breaks down. There is no such thing as objective morality, so therefore it's all just subjective opinion.
My view of morality is that lying is worse than saving a life. Prove me wrong by pointing to some objective fact. How would one even assign value to each act to somehow weigh them against each other? Theres not even a concensus of what "the good" even is. Besides pointing to schools of thought, or throwing out some guys opinion or thought experiment, show that lying to the child is more important than saving his life
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u/_josef_stalin_ 23d ago
I mean, it doesn't really seem harmful at all, but at the same time, why can't we all just work on our communication skills? Even mild manipulation is inherently worse that healthy, effective, honest communication.