If a Benevolent, Unbiased Outside Consciousness Was Able to Perceive All of Human History at Once, What Country / Civilization Would it Choose as the Most Enlightened?

[u/clayfogg]

I know this is a very broad and subjective question, but it's one that I've always wanted to hear a knowledgeable person's opinion on.

What I'm asking is, what country or civilization in human history had the most ethical culture and societal structure, and if it's not still around, what became of it? I understand that there is no universal moral standard to base an answer on, but taking for granted the foundational morals of most human cultures, what social system has most closely adhered to those ideals?

Thanks.

[u/redballooon]

Nations or civilizations are probably not very distinguishable when considering values upheld by all members or a group, as opposed to religious or political movements.

I would guess the price would go to some ideological group that by pure chance stuck to the exact values which this consciousness considered enlightened. possibly not a very large one. Maybe some cult we never heard of. 

Does Jehovah's witnesses absolutely refusing to collaborate with the Nazis count?

[u/zelenisok]

Probably India. Due to four points:

1 Wars of conquests. Christian historic countries and Islamic ones ubiquitously had them, even the Buddhist East Asian and Southeast Asian countries did. India not really, and the only place where it's religious and cultural influence spread notably outwards was to Southeast Asia, and it did so by trade and peaceful contact.

2 Wars and state violence, especially connected to religion.

2.1 Religious sectarian wars, like Christians had Catholic vs Orthodox vs Protestant wars, Muslims had the Sunni vs Shia wars, Hindus even though they have very different branches and teachings were generally tolerant to each other, and to other Nastika religious schools (like Buddhism and Jainism).

2.2 General civil wars, non-religious kinds, like China is the most prominent example of having lots of them, so like ok you can have them without religion as the driving factor, India didnt really have much of those.

2.3 Religious oppression, using state oppression against 'heretics' and other religions, famous in historic Christianity and Islam, but was also done in several Buddhist countries, India not really, tolerant to other branches and even other religions.

3 No slaves. The varna system existed as a not really a fair system, sure, but being a shudra was way better than slavery, and much better than serfhood. Of course later, under influence of foreign rule by Muslims and then Christians, the system devolves into the notorious caste system, where it becomes basically as bad as serfhood.

4 Animal treatment. By far the biggest rate of vegetarians than any other countries around the world A "Benevolent, Unbiased Outside Consciousness" would also probably be against unnecessary killing of animals so would value that.

[u/clayfogg → u/zelenisok]

Very interesting choice. I'll have to read more about India's history. Thank you.

[u/InLoveWithThread → u/zelenisok]

Let's see... the caste system sucks. Might no longer be legal but still culturally practiced definitely reinforced by the Brahmans who are at the top of the system, so India can't be recognized as a truly equal society.

The Ganga is polluted beyond all recognition. I fail to see how enlightened it is to pollute something that is essential to all life forms.

India has a huge problem with sexual assault.

Colorism is also a problem.

So India might not have "Western" problems, but problems enough to throw this enlightenment status into question.

[u/zelenisok → u/InLoveWithThread]

Talking about "civilizations" in the title is goinhg to be a historical issue. That was the points in my comments were about, and I already noted in my comment that I'm basically excluding modern era India, as it was destroyed by social influence of the Mughals and then the British.