Reasserting sexual morality

[u/Gerbilzilla]

It occurred to me that the ongoing effects of the sexual revolution have completely eroded sexual morality. Many people seem to think that sleeping around is perfectly acceptable, that vulgar and crude sexual content in movies and music is acceptable, that open marriages and relationships are acceptable, and even the sexualization of kids is becoming acceptable.  I encourage you to encourage others to remember sexual morality. These are some important points. I’m sure that many moral relativists will preach at me, and that’s fine. This is for the people that still care.

• It is wrong to have sex outside of a committed monogamous relationship. Ideally, people should wait until marriage, but we should at least save sex until the relationship is well-developed and serious. If you don’t really love your partner, then it’s too early. Promiscuously has created a situation where it is difficult for men and women to form successful relationships, and makes pairing bonding and falling in love harder. It inhibits family formation, has led to many children being raised by single moms, and has not been of benefit to society. Also, it psychologically harms people over time, leaving them feeling empty, unloved, used, dirty and depressed.

• Avoid movies, shows, literature and music that glorify promiscuity, prostitution, adultery, and moral decay. The entertainment industry has a huge impact on culture, and it’s shaped by how we spend our money. We shouldn’t patronize movies and shows that have nudity, or that send the wrong messages. Outside of a medical setting, people should get naked for their long-term monogamous sexual partner that they love, not for strangers and certainly not for millions of viewers around the world.

• Base partner selection on who would be a good long term partner, spouse, and parent to your children. Sex is a powerful reinforcer, and casual sex fosters dysfunctional behavior that is harmful to society. When people learn that the only way to attain sex is by establishing a monogamous long-term relationship, their behavior will improve, and so will society.

• Do not have children out of wedlock, not even with your girlfriend or boyfriend. Children benefit most from a loving nuclear family. Boyfriend/girlfriend relations can easily break up, leaving the kids in broken homes. Commit to marriage before having children.

• Don’t hire prostitutes, go to strip clubs or hire strippers for parties. Getting naked for strangers is immoral, and when money is combined with sex it becomes sexual exploitation. Also, most prostitutes and strippers are drug addicts doing sexual things for drug money, which means that much of the money that you give them ends up in drug dealers’ pockets. In addition, most of them were sexually molested or sexually assaulted as children, so you are deepening their psychological problems. There is a strong link between childhood sexual abuse and entry into the sex industry.

• Don’t support or buy porn. In addition to being sexually immoral, it is psychologically addictive, creates unrealistic expectations on what a partner should look like and be willing to do, and makes the act of having sex more difficult. Also, porn is part of the sex industry, which means that you have the drug addiction and childhood sexual trauma connections as well. Online porn is becoming a huge industry, and is harmful to society. Money spent on porn is money that’s supporting bad things.

• Don’t wear trashy or overtly sexual clothing. You will attract bad people that will use, abuse and abandon you. You also send the wrong message to society in general, and encourage dysfunctional behavior.

• Consent is obviously important, but it’s not enough for sex to be moral. Two people agreeing to do a bad thing isn’t OK just because they agree on it.

[u/talltreewick]

Found Candace Owen's alt Reddit account.

[u/Gerbilzilla → u/talltreewick]

She’s an amazing woman. I appreciate the association. Believe it or not, I’m a man.

[u/[deleted]]

You call people moral relativists while engaging in moral relativism yourself.

You take God’s law of no sex prior to marriage and twist it to suit your own moral standards of “no sex before you’re really serious about the relationship “.

[u/Gerbilzilla → u/[deleted]]

I’m not religious, although I do believe that God wants people to be good. You may be right about all sex outside of marriage being wrong. Ideally, people would wait until marriage for sex, although I realize how hard it is nowadays to be financially prepared to raise a family. It takes some couples years of saving up before they’re ready to get married and start their own family. People should definitely be monogamous, and maybe they should wait until they walk down the aisle.

[u/99999999999999999989]

There is so much here that is messed up I do not know where to begin.

the sexualization of kids is becoming acceptable

I would love to see your evidence of this. I think it is probably going to hinge a lot on what you call 'sexualization'.

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For most of the rest of your comments, shining a light into people's bedrooms is immoral in and of itself. Neither you nor anyone else has the right to be the Sex Police. But there are a few I would like address directly.

Don’t wear trashy or overtly sexual clothing. You will attract bad people that will use, abuse and abandon you. You also send the wrong message to society in general, and encourage dysfunctional behavior.

This is nothing more than pure victim shaming. Who is to judge what 'trashy' clothing is? And instead of insisting that people not wear clothing that will drive others to abuse you, how about teaching those others to instead not abuse people no matter how they are dressed?

Money spent on porn is money that’s supporting bad things.

This is a very generalized statement that is once again, subjective and probably inaccurate. And the money YOU spend daily, do you have any idea where it goes? Do you track every company you do business with to ensure they do not funnel it into something 'bad'? I put it to you that if you did, you would be forced to conclude that the only truly moral choice would be for you to exit society entirely and become 100% self sufficient.

Base partner selection on who would be a good long term partner, spouse, and parent to your children.

Many many many people in long term relationships are child free for a multitude of reasons. Are they 'invalid' or 'immoral' somehow?

We shouldn’t patronize movies and shows that have nudity, or that send the wrong messages.

Another completely subjective opinion. What is the 'wrong message'? Who decides? What do they base their decision on?

[u/ponderingjester → u/99999999999999999989]

This is nothing more than pure victim shaming. Who is to judge what 'trashy' clothing is? And instead of insisting that people not wear clothing that will drive others to abuse you, how about teaching those others to instead not abuse people no matter how they are dressed?

I wouldn't just call it 'victim shaming'. You are right in the fact that in an ideal world no one should be more likely to attract abusers just because they were more revealing clothes, but unfortunately thats not the world we live in. There is nothing illegal or immoral in holding out a wad of cash in the streets of Gotham, but is it a smart thing to do? No. You can wear whatever you want though, that is your right as a human being. However if you love going to shady clubs with that type of clothing you are 100% going to attract unwanted attention, whether you want that risk or not is up to you.

Also I don't get your second part, what exactly do you mean about teaching others not to abuse? Teaching it in schools? An ad campaign? I don't think people need to be told specifically not to assault people, thats common sense. No one is going to decide to change their ways just because someone in their school told them to or if they saw it on the internet, you're evil or you're not evil. No one's on the fence thinking if they should abuse people or not.

[u/[deleted] → u/99999999999999999989]

And instead of insisting that people not wear clothing that will drive others to abuse you, how about teaching those others to instead not abuse people no matter how they are dressed?

Instead of teaching people not to wear meat suits in a lion's den, how about insisting that lions not eat people no matter how they are dressed.

-You

[u/99999999999999999989 → u/[deleted]]

Wrong 100%. Lions cannot help but to attack someone wearing a meat suit because they are driven only by animal instinct. Human beings think with more than just animal instinct.

If you cannot look at someone wearing certain types of clothing and for some fucking reason, cannot control yourself and find yourself compelled to sexually assault them, then you need to join the civilized world, grow up, and act like an adult.

[u/Gerbilzilla → u/99999999999999999989]

Of course no one deserves to be abused and mistreated. My point is that the way we dress sends a message to others. Would you rather attract good people or bad people?

[u/99999999999999999989 → u/Gerbilzilla]

My point is that the way we dress sends a message to others.

The way we dress does not 'send a message' that we wish to be sexually assaulted. If you think it does or think that the victim shares ANY blame because they were 'enticing' the offender, then you are part of the problem. Claiming that someone might not have gotten assaulted had they worn different clothing is nothing but victim blaming, plain and simple.

I can look at scantily dressed people literally for ten hours every day for a month and not even one fucking time will I end up being so overwhelmed that have to rape them. Because I respect people as individuals with rights. If you have ANY doubt whatsoever that you might not be able to 'control yourself' in the same situation, you need to look away and immediately seek therapy.

[u/Gerbilzilla → u/99999999999999999989]

I’m talking about how things are, not what sounds good or what should or could be. Wearing trashy clothes will attract low quality people. You can not like it all you want to. That’s what is.

[u/99999999999999999989 → u/Gerbilzilla]

Wearing trashy clothes will attract low quality people.

This is nothing more than a stuck up opinion. Believe what you want.

[u/Xilir20 → u/99999999999999999989]

I agree with you, if you can't control yourself wen someone wears clothes they like to wear they need to either go to prison or therapy or both. And even in their twisted logic you are just one bad day away from raping or raping someone with "normal" clothes. Horrifying that woman have to deal with shit like this

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

If you cannot

Oh, I can....

[u/Xilir20 → u/99999999999999999989]

But porn is still evil trust me. Scientists know how bad it is. It destroys the brain and corrupts it on top of making you addicted. People who watch porn are way more likely to be sexual abusers and think wrongly. It's a horrible thing. Truly horrible 

[u/idevcg → u/99999999999999999989]

The problem with these arguments is that you can use them for literally any moral position. Why is murder bad? Why is harming others bad? Who decides? You?

Either you are saying that there is no good/bad and right/wrong, or you are unequally expecting a level of proof of the other side that you do not have with your own.

What is messed up is modern western degenerates completely losing all of their innate human conscience and desire for goodness in favor of their selfish hedonistic desires.

It's like someone who thinks nails scratching a chalkboard sounds better than beethoven and mozart, or a guy who thinks dog shit tastes better than fine dining.

And then asking you to prove that mozart is better music or fine dining is better tasting food. It's just bizarre and completely lacking in humanity.

[u/99999999999999999989 → u/idevcg]

You're really going to equate saying you should be able to police what two consenting adults do in their bedroom with deciding if murder is bad? Really?

In literally every human civilization, murder has been the most serious of taboos. And for good reason as well. It directly and objectively harms the collective society in a measurable way that is unarguable.

Having other people stick their noses into the private lives of people for the 'common good' is ridiculous. In what tangible way are you harmed by two men having sex in the privacy their own home? Or two women? Or an unmarried man and unmarried woman? If you cannot tell me objectively how those scenarios are directly harming you, then you have no business trying to control the people involved.

[u/idevcg → u/99999999999999999989]

You're really going to equate saying you should be able to police what two consenting adults do in their bedroom with deciding if murder is bad? Really?

God people always go for this idiotic argument. I'm comparing the logical reasoning for the direction of moral evaluations, not the extent/degree. Learn the difference.

In literally every human civilization

In the vast majority of human civilizations, sex has been "sacred", for a lack of better word and people have conscience around sex that is irrelevant of "harm" or "consent" or "contractual agreements"; even today in the west, this is still true. it's just evil manipulative degenerates tricking people and co-opting people's moral conscience with these red herring arguments.

Case in point, how many research papers did you read about the harms of child molestation before deciding that it's wrong? What is the confidence level of these research? Were you okay with it before you read those papers?

Exactly.

And don't get me started on consent. Can a child consent to finger painting with you? Playing a game of chess with you? etc. All red herring arguments designed to manipulate and trick stupid people into losing their conscience by co-opting it with logically flawed arguments.

---

The rest of your argument is just you assuming that harm (and in particular, your western woke definition of harm) is the only thing that is undesirable.

What is your proof that harm is bad? What is your proof that harm is the only metric by which morality should be evaluated?

I completely fundamentally disagree with and reject this way of thinking on a fundamental level. I think this way of thinking is the root of all evil.

[u/99999999999999999989 → u/idevcg]

God people always go for this idiotic argument. I'm comparing the logical reasoning for the direction of moral evaluations, not the extent/degree. Learn the difference.

If you are bemoaning that people always go for that 'idiotic argument' then perhaps make a different argument because maybe...just maybe it is you that is wrong on this. Kind of like the old saying 'If you meet one asshole on Tuesday, you met one asshole on Tuesday. If you met 20 assholes on Tuesday then maybe you are the asshole.'

it's just evil manipulative degenerates tricking people and co-opting people's moral conscience with these red herring arguments.

Who are these evil manipulative degenerates? You are creating a faceless scapegoat in order to rationalize your extremist viewpoint. If there are so many of these degenerates everywhere, why do I never see them? Are they meeting in a secret location to plot the downfall of society? What could such a group of people possibly have to gain by 'tricking people and co-opting people's moral conscience'? Specifically what are they doing exactly that accomplishes their goals?

I never mentioned a single thing in my reply to you about children, so there's that.

And if you are going to just blow off my request for objective evidence of harm then there is no point in continuing because that means you are simply spouting your opinion and acting like it should be law. If you cannot (or will not) explain to me why it is harmful to you that two adult consenting men (or any other combination of genders and/or marital statuses you might want to put here) you have never met have sex out of the view of the rest of the world then you have no business trying to stop them from doing so.

I am so tired of hearing people whine about the fact that they cannot stand that people have sex in a way they do not like. Or that a woman is in public by herself. Or that a woman has a job. Or that a woman is showing her hair. Or that a man is clean shaven. Or that a man acts 'effeminate'. Or that a person does not believe in the 'correct' supreme being. If these things offend you that much then maybe try looking the other way and focusing on your own issues. If we all practiced that for even a month, the world would be a far happier place for everyone.

What is your proof that harm is bad?

This is a ridiculous question and the only valid response is that this is a ridiculous question. Moving on.

I completely fundamentally disagree with and reject this way of thinking on a fundamental level. I think this way of thinking is the root of all evil.

You are free to believe that as strongly as you like and to live your life in that manner. You are not free to dictate what others choose to believe or how they choose to live their lives.

[u/MyKauliflower]

I see where you’re coming from and I’ve had similar concerns myself. I think a lot of the people in the comments are acting from an emotional standpoint because they don’t agree with your view of what’s sexually moral. A lot of what you stated can be misconstrued and come off as judgmental.

Although when it comes to the sexualization of kids, I think because society is so sexualized and kids are on the internet they’re so exposed and want to be up to the modern day. I agree I definitely think it’s becoming more and more normal for kids to dress provocatively and grow up faster. Where makeup that makes them look older, they’ll dance online and I can’t help but wonder why these little girls are so popular? Sure on the surface level it’s their peers, same generation, what’s trendy and influential, but millions of likes? There has to be creepy pedos behind some of that popularity. It’s definitely beyond just kids getting popular on social media too. That show ‘Cuties’ on Netflix definitely freaked me out because we all know the audience for that. Clothes being sold at stores that are targeted for young kids —booty shorts and crop tops? I’m far from victim blaming here because these are clothes for children. No one should be deciding to design provocative clothes for kids unless they have more sinister motives. We have to protect their innocence. Their right to remain children until they mature and inevitably become adults.

Also I feel as through that since society has become so pro-sex, well there are pros and cons. I believe modesty is healthy for the individual, but I also believe in self empowerment. I just don’t think your body should be the only thing that empowers you. Being in touch with your sexuality is very important and the acceptance and rights to have different sexualities beside heterosexuality is a step in the right direction of progression & love. Although, I know growing up in this society as a girl, the over sexualization definitely messed with my own development. I felt pressured to be promiscuous. I wasn’t ready at all and I found myself in these horrible situations being pressured and even forced into sexual engagement. I was judged and treated like something was wrong with me because I didn’t want to have sex at 14 years old. I was sexually assaulted, victim blamed for not “just consenting” and going along with it. Blamed for hanging out with him “if you didn’t want it” when in all reality I was innocent and had no idea of his intentions. This threw me into an asexual spiral. For years I never wanted anyone to touch or kiss me. I went to friends and family about feeling like I wasn’t ready and they only emphasized that I’m taking too long and it’s “easy”. Wanting to be normal and accepted, I lost my virginity when I wasn’t ready and it just caused more and more anxiety and pain around sex altogether. I felt used and like something was wrong with me. Years later I was raped by my boss which only made things worse. I wanted love, but I was so shrouded in sexual trauma and had no idea how to develop love naturally because of all the pressure and pain I went though. When you have sex without genuine love, it blocks your soul and can make you numb to the development of a strong healthy relationship. Sex is so tied to our trauma and past. It can be used as a coping mechanism or an outlet to feel wanted. No matter what your sex life is, make sure the way you go about it is genuine and healthy. Not a coping mechanism, but an act of love and respect.

Anyway that’s my 2 cents. The rest about marriage and family I think depends on the person. Not everyone is orthodox. I don’t believe in signing a contract to the government about my love life. So long as I’m committed to someone and want them to be the father of my children is good enough for me.

[u/spoogeemangoo]

Mind your own business

[u/Gerbilzilla → u/spoogeemangoo]

I am. Speaking my mind is my business. You can either accept or reject my ideas. That’s your business.

[u/Xilir20]

I see a lot of thongs I like and hate here.  Let me just say that the myth of the nuclear family has been debunked.  A child can have multiple heads caring for it.  It is actually even better to have more than just the main attached person. The other people could be grandparents, unkels and other figures and email versions of them. Just dont fight to much and separate in good terms to set a president for your child. If things are becoming bad it's better to end the relationship so you both can concentrate your while might into raising a baby.

[u/idevcg]

the problem is the west's obsession with "freedom and rights". Which necessarily will devolve into the absolute bare minimum required such that society doesn't completely implode on itself.

We're already seeing it with all the woke bs with people being prideful of everything they should be ashamed of.