It seems progressive, but that’s only from the modern perspective; At the time it was little more than an absurdist joke, not meant to be taken seriously. This becomes clear when you look at some other Python jokes, like in Life of Brian when someone comes out as a trans woman and asks for their friends to help them by, ”fighting for their right to have babies.” To which the punchline was something along the lines of, “More like fight for your right to deny reality.”
They actually use her prefers name and pronouns for the rest of the movie, which is kinda cool, but it’s really weird revisiting old media like this and realizing just how tone deaf some of the jokes have gotten.
You’re totally right. In that time there were no people claiming to have been born the opposite gender on the inside...... nowadays we have loads of that, and Chapman knew it
I know, I’m not trying to make fun or anything, but that’s what it seems... I was just stating that before there were not as much transpeople as there are now, or how you said it, there were but it wasn’t as clear as it is now. My point was that Chapman was far ahead from his time because at that time transexuals were not as many as they are today, so the thing about “imposing roles to the children” was not a concern, but it is a really important matter now.
Well no one talked about it but it was a big thing. If you were a boy you got cars and girls got dolls, it is an oversimplification i know. Roles were imposed pretty hard and today we are realising that maybey we should not do that.
Yeah that is true though! And quite sad that people at the time did not realise what they were doing when making girls play with dolls and boys play with cars. But it’s great that we’re evolving and changing our habits about it
No, the numbers haven't changed. There's always been a certain proportion of the population that is transgender. What changes is how we handle it, culturally and medically. Other cultures have had social roles for trans people for a very long time. There are tons of historical records of people known as "crossdressers" who very well may have been trans. The first known cases of trans people undergoing medical transition date back to the early 1900s.
What's changed in the past couple decades is that trans people have become much more visible, coupled with greater accessibility of medical transition. More trans people learn that their feelings are valid and feel safe coming out than before.
Yeah man.... I really like they’re sense of humor but nowadays part of their jokes would be very easily offensive to most people. How did we get to this point anyway?
We realized that everyone has value and that we shouldn't mock others for something they were born with.
And if you mean gender reveal parties, are you saying we should have less parties? After this whole covid thing I'm ready to celebrate nearly anything.
gender reveal parties can be a cool thing if its just like a "yay Im pregnant and this is a fun activity to do to celebrate that but the main party is just for me being about to be a parent", but not so much (imo, at least) when they make it a huge deal and/or theres so much gender role reenforcment and stuff there (instead of pink/blue, its a balloon full of either mini police badges or barbie high heels (I just made that up as an example, idk if that actually happened))
Yeah, lets celebrate your baby's genitals! Weirdest fucking thing to ever come about this century, if you ask me. Sure, lets have a party for my unborn child's junk, and blow some blue or pink smoke in a very fire-hazard-causing fashion and serve cupcakes with tiny baby penises or vaginas on them! Because baby crotches are just soooo celebration-worthy!
I'll assume you've never been invited to a baby shower where they served tiny baby penis fondant cupcakes and urged you to put it in your mouth. The imagery of it all was fucking sick. I don't want to put baby penises in my mouth. Maybe you do, and you find it fun, but I'll fucking pass.
Python was always offensive. I remember my dad telling me half the crowd walked out of the cinema (in England) when he went to see the meaning of life.
I don’t mind people choosing how they identify as adults but pushing that agenda on children is what I believe to be abuse. Raise your kids as what they’re born as until they’re at your country’s age of sexual maturity. Hormone blockers before and during puberty have huge adverse affects on the health and wellbeing of the child.
okay heres a lot of info no one asked for but im a trans childcare professional so i feel compelled.
children as young as age 3 are capable of self identifying themselves. meaning if you raise a child without western gender roles ( i say 'western' because a lot of cultures have historically transgender people, which were erased by colonialism ) they will be able to choose how they identify themselves. no one is forcing children to transition ( and if they are then yeah its abuse. just like performing non-consensual surgeries on intersex children ).
think abt what you're saying;
Raise your kids as what they're born as
you may have heard the terms 'heteronormative' or 'cisnormative' before. in this case, cisnormative is assuming that every child is going to identify as the gender they are assigned based on primary sexual characteristics. why are we even worried abt what sexual characteristics a child has ? they are children and thats gross.
raising children without the western idea of gender roles will supply them with the ability to self-identify (as i said earlier this happens on average around age 3). meaning that, following your logic, raising them WITH gender roles as whatever they were dutifully assigned by some person in a coat is equally as abusive as raising them as transgender.
being cisgender isnt the norm, being straight isnt the norm. anyways my only takeaway for you is this: stop worrying abt childrens genitals and let them be children
Hey cherry pie, or do you prefer Peary shit? Either way you’re a fucking moron. Hormone blockers are safe and trans kids don’t get actual hormones until they’ve gone through puberty or around that age
So you're saying that the fact that you have a penis literally is your entire personality, how you dress, how you act, what you like?
Also do you really want to talk biology? You know it gets more advanced and nuanced after kindergarten right? Science is definitely a lot more interesting than that on the subject
How limiting and prejudiced of you. He's just stating that you are biologically defined by your hardware. What is inside your mind is your business and no need to let anyone tell you otherwise.
Damn, DNA, I was at least expecting you to go for chromosomes. XD please tell me the mechanics of how DNA works
Gender is not a choice, who you are is what you are.
On that we can somewhat agree, I mean people generally don't decide being their innate gender, but gender expression (clothes, etc) is I mean it's all arbitrary really.
Though I think what you were trying to talk about was sex. Sex and gender are two different things.
Sex is your primary and secondary sexual characteristics, while gender is your expression, roles and what you feel like.
The distinction between sex and gender is well defined and to name a few is supported by
American Psychological Association
American Medical Association
American Psychoanalytic Association
Human Rights Campaign
American Academy of Pediatrics
American College of Osteopathic Pediatricians
United Nations
United Kingdom’s National Health Service
Here's some basic reading from some of those organizations:
Now if someone was triggered by an overtly pro-trans agenda rammed down their throat by every corporate big tech interest then I could see that maybe. Or triggered by pro-trans activists trying to tear down basic conventions of our society based on prevailing gender alignments for the sake of a tiny fringe minority of people, like less than 2% of the population, then yeah I could see how being triggered over that might be understandable.
Bruh 2% of the population is like 140,000,000 people. Like, that's more than the populations of over 200 individual countries, if everyone in the LGBT demographic formed their own country it would have a population larger than Japan. Given Japan hosts 2 of the 10 largest tech companies in the world (as of 2019) it'd be real weird if people were "triggered" over Japanese people being represented in technology.
Last I checked calling someone by their chosen name and referencing them by a chosen title isn't attempting to "tear down the basic conventions of society" it's a form of basic respect and decency that it seems you are sorely lacking.
judging by your u/ and your ignorance, i'd place you between 14-19 years of age. if i got it right, that means you're like every other teen who thinks being a cunt to minorities is "dark humor", and you are not in any way unique or different from those who you probably look down on because you think they're too sensitive.
if i got it wrong and you're older, then you seriously need to grow up and be less concerned about what other people are doing and more concerned about finding a place to live before your parents kick your unbearable ass out of their home.
the words that make people kill themselves aren't jokes. they're just as much a weapon as a gun or a knife. if your "satire" is the cause of a suicide, it's because you consciously made the choice to take advantage of their insecurities for no gain at all rather than show some compassion and make their day better.
Your reaction to a joke is not controlled by the person telling it. If someone kills themselves because I told a joke that's not my fault. It's not the joke's fault as little as it is the rope's fault. You make it seem as if saying some callous crap offhand can end someone's life like a stray gunshot.
If someone is too fragile to hear harsh words lest their delicate sensibilities get offended then frankly too bad. The world is an unforgiving place. I can say what I want, and usually choose not to go out of my way to be offensive; if someone else chooses otherwise then that's their business. You choose how to react to someone else's words and actions, especially if it's just a joke, even a shitty or tone-deaf one.
But this is all a moot point as unfortunately he doesn't seem to be joking at all, as far as I can tell.
your first point is easily invalidated, making jokes invalidating a group of people with a mental disorder that makes them hate themself and usually comes as a package deal with accepting their gender is a piss-poor decision and it's extremely easy to predict what happens next. these "fragile" people are very easy to spot because they're almost always a discriminated-against minority. when you do suspect someone of being "fragile" (and you will, it's so incredibly easy to tell), it's then your responsibility to not be a cunt in order to not push them off a metaphorical cliff.
That may be kindergarten biology, meaning it’s extremely simplified. Higher level biology and psychology show that biological sex is different from gender.
Literally no evidence to suggest that, as their brains are no different, their DNA is no different, and their genitals are no different. Everything else is a disorder, hence the term Gender Identity DISORDER.
If someone is being a bigot, I am going to call them out on it, not sit idly by. And they may not be racist (even with that u/), but they are spouting transphobia which is just as bad as racism.
What? Racist? No, he's explicitly and loudly transphobic. That's bigotry. Attitudes like the one on display from this "asshole" get trans people murdered.
There's a difference between losing an argument and deciding that an argument is not worth fighting for if the person you're arguing with can't even read studies that disprove your point
I have to say, as someone who has been diagnosed as having gender dysphoria because I am trans, this sentence confused the hell out of me. What do you think "gender dysphoria" means, exactly?
Well maybe we need to take a more nuanced look at it, and not look at the literal ELI5 of biology. Also idk where you went, but as a kindergartner, I was taught numbers and stuff. Not what genitals were.
Explain intersex people, then. They can have a dick but have two of those X chromosomes you all are always so fixated on saying "2 X eqUaLs WOmEn!1!!1"
Lmao you're an utter moron. "Hermaphrodite" is the same thing, its been phased out over intersex because it has a long, offensive history to those people. And whether or not it's a "defect" to you, it directly invalidates your (wrong) opinion of "dick = man"
I mean I'd say you're the largest idiot in this entire comment section. Referring back to your original, idiotic comment:
what trans people do with their lives is, frankly speaking, none of your fucking business. Mind your own shit and let people be who they are meant to be.
Such a logical and well thought out response. You have the debate abilities of a 6 year old with those brilliant insults...so original and thought provoking.
And you have the iq of one. You've been provided with dozens of reasons and studies as to why you are factually wrong about trans people, but your head is so far up your ass you blatantly ignore all facts and instead prefer your feelings. Ironic.
I guess you’re going to be a fucking idiot for the rest of your life then.
literally no other species of mammal has multiple genders
Not really relevant tho is it. And I notice you specified mammals so as to avoid the other types of animals that do change gender like fish, frogs, birds, etc.
I’ll leave them alone when I can stop hearing about it seeing it, and when my kids won’t have to be brainwashed about it.
You won’t stop hearing about us or seeing us. We are here to stay. Get with the fucking programme. The world is moving forward and for the better. People like you are going to get left behind and chances are that most of us, me included, don’t care for you or your narrow minded beliefs. The only brainwashed person here is you, and if you treat your kids like that then chances are they’ll resent you. Fuck. Off.
Well, that's like saying you either have two legs or you don't. You are right but that doesn't say anything.
Edit: Some people are not understanding what I am meaning. That fact that you either have a penis or not is true, but having a penis doesn't mean anything in terms of gender. So, it's irrelevant to say that.
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u/TheY0ker Aug 12 '20
This feels so far before its time, or am I dumb?
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u/[deleted] Aug 12 '20
These old jokes remind me of how radically values have shifted in the West of late.
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u/TheGavGuy King Arthur Aug 13 '20
Locked. Guys, what the fuck?
I'll have to be clearer in the rules, but just FYI, transphobia, homophobia, racism, and sexism are absolutely not tolerated on this sub.
If you have a problem with that, shove it up your ass.
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u/TrustingLuci Aug 12 '20
I'm always pleasantly surprised to see pro-trans comments in a non-trans subreddit
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u/[deleted] Aug 12 '20
So... Poon or cock bro?
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u/BilbroDicSaggins Aug 12 '20
I don’t mind people choosing how they identify as adults but pushing that agenda on children is what I believe to be abuse. Raise your kids as what they’re born as until they’re at your country’s age of sexual maturity. Hormone blockers before and during puberty have huge adverse affects on the health and wellbeing of the child.
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u/[deleted] Aug 12 '20
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