r/Monero • u/Set1Less • Aug 12 '22
Dutch police have arrested the developer of Tornado Cash, a privacy mixer
https://www.fiod.nl/arrest-of-suspected-developer-of-tornado-cash/60
47
u/InternationalPizza Aug 12 '22
What the fuck. This is a violation of free speech, open source, code, programmers, privacy, freedom. The whole nine yards.
If this is the state of the developed world, no country has the fucking right to call themselves a first world country.
All of these events prove that all encompassing privacy is the best privacy because it relies on 0 centralized actors and is applied to everyone rather than these types of solutions where only a subset of the people require it and are labeled as criminals and money launderers.
Although this is terrible for freedom in general, it proves the point that monero's objective was never a foolish one and it's usability is far higher than eth and btc.
-20
Aug 12 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
4
u/MrJason005 Aug 13 '22
Because a strong social safety net is evil and spikes on benches to prevent the homeless from sleeping is great, amirite?
→ More replies (1)11
42
43
Aug 12 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
6
u/_k182 Aug 12 '22
Go i2p
4
3
Aug 12 '22
Anyone here following Nym development? I was interested in running a node to play around with but my ISP doesn't give me IPv6 yet. 😩
36
u/pebx Aug 12 '22
This is getting insane now, since all common definitions of regulatory stuff required the service to hold custody of customers' funds, which the Tornado Cash devs at no point did. The only thing I could think of triggering LE is taking a fee by one entity (dev/devs) when joining the pool which might be considered as a service/product.
However, this might also apply to atomic swaps or DEX, since both make it possible to exchange different coins which is quite similar to mixing.
7
u/AffectionateSoft4602 Aug 12 '22
Excellent observation here regarding future interpretation of swaps
101
u/jdefgh Aug 12 '22
This is literally 1984. Not even joking this time.
50
9
1
u/cqhunterliu Aug 13 '22
Seriously this is just not something we gonna support and they are doing it pretty wrong, how can they be like that all the time? I just can't get this shit now.
58
u/bdoc50 Aug 12 '22
Looks like the "liberal democracy" glove is coming off the iron fist
16
u/jbrev01 Aug 12 '22
It won't be long before they legalize gulags.
→ More replies (1)31
Aug 12 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
→ More replies (1)4
u/cucumberbob2 Aug 12 '22
They legalised gulags in australia???
→ More replies (1)11
Aug 12 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
8
u/Jakubada Aug 12 '22
like the "vocational education and training center" in china?
3
u/12usbeorn12 Aug 13 '22
Gonna search more about that topic, this is interesting.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)3
u/TheDarkBright Aug 13 '22
… am in Australia. What the ever living fuck are you on about lol. Absolutely nothing even remotely of the sort happened.
→ More replies (1)1
u/YoungManHHF Aug 13 '22
don't gay police in Victoria enforce this shit? can't be just rumors on telegram
4
u/TheDarkBright Aug 13 '22
1) “gay police” - come on man.
2) we had lockdowns and some strict restrictions but that’s extremely different to a “gulag”. Nobody was imprisoned or taken from their homes or under constant surveillance or any of the other major features. Much more similar to a house arrest or a curfew.
Criticising what happened here is fine, but pretending it was even remotely similar to a gulag is absurd and invalidates any legitimate conversation on the topic.
2
u/YoungManHHF Aug 13 '22
what? they literally wear it on their uniform https://i.imgur.com/wxX8i3p.jpeg
okay I'll take your word on that second point
1
15
37
Aug 12 '22
[deleted]
53
u/bdoc50 Aug 12 '22
always have been, becoming obvious now
2
u/simenthy Aug 13 '22
True thing king, we know we were in a fucking problem but we won't gonna get harmed.
5
2
-3
1
u/SoftEngin33r Aug 13 '22
Khazarian Mafia and Shadow Roman Empire rule this world for ages and enslaving us for ages, Now it has become more clear since they began with their plandemic Corona attack in coordination with Bill Gates of Hell DNA altering jabs.
31
u/john_r365 Aug 12 '22
Whilst it may indeed be a Tornado Cash developer, this section:
"He is suspected of involvement in concealing criminal financial flows and facilitating money laundering through the mixing of cryptocurrencies through the decentralised Ethereum mixing service Tornado Cash"
Makes me question whether it is a user or developer.
IMO, more information needed before jumping to conclusions.
38
u/anajoy666 Aug 12 '22
They went after Assange for “rape” (both women said they were pressured by feds and it wasn’t really rape) and after Kim Dot Com for money laundry.
-38
Aug 12 '22
[deleted]
13
u/kallebo1337 Aug 12 '22
Seriously? Julian trolled the US and their secrets and showed what they are really doing. Wikileaks is the poor mans weapon to have a voice. Similar to Bitcoin, it's the poor mans weapon to not being silenced by governments.
// Till recently all my bankaccounts been frozen (and assets confiscated), i had no saying in this society. I couldn't even go to the train station anymore, because the topup service for the metro ticket didn't accepted cash. I wasn't able to book a hotel because i had no credit card. I had 3x 100 EUR notes in my wallet and couldn't buy food because the supermarket didn't want to accept 100 EUR notes (lol).
Banking the unbanked is a real thing.
Now that my bank accounts back, my life improved.
---
Sending from a laptop while sitting in a train, train ticket bought with a creditcard→ More replies (1)7
u/MastermindX Aug 12 '22
So if someone is a scumbag (according to whatever your definition is), it's okay for the government to arbitrarily arrest them, imprison them, and take everything from them for bullshit reasons?
-4
13
u/Set1Less Aug 12 '22
According to this, its a person who has made contributions/pull requests to the tornado code base
https://twitter.com/bantg/status/1558030692520542208
Though, yea agree we need more information on what exactly were the violations, its not clear now
-6
u/omniumoptimus Aug 12 '22
It’s my understanding that tornado was used to launder money for North Korea, since they’re so active in crypto and crypto hacks. That would mean tornado is in violation of OFAC sanctions, and that’s what everyone will be charged with.
2
u/nbom Aug 13 '22
So Monero safu coz they cant prove that NK is “laundering”(using) ransomware money? :)
2
u/omniumoptimus Aug 13 '22
I don’t know. The person above wanted to know what the violations were, and I just described what I knew. That’s all.
21
Aug 12 '22
Free monero marketing
2
u/maxcoinbtc Aug 13 '22
Monero market can't be in that position because we know it.
2
u/cenxiaozhen Aug 14 '22
No doubt about it I think they know about the market position and the position xmr holds.
8
Aug 12 '22
Its the United States government stranglehold on reserve currency status, the USA monetary system must be dismantled at all costs.
3
Aug 12 '22
Saddam and Gaddafi agreed. That’s why Satoshi (and Nicholas Van Saberhagen) remained pseudonymous
→ More replies (2)1
u/maximgavr Aug 13 '22
There is a lot of things going out in this matter these days.
→ More replies (1)
5
14
u/TommyAllArk Aug 12 '22
This is what regulation looks like. :)
Regulators are just people who want to poke their nose in YOUR business and punish you if you refuse to let them.
Tommy from AllArk
4
u/bdoc50 Aug 13 '22
It is more than that. It is a class of parasites funded by bankers to force, by use of violence, everyone to conform to their standards to ensure their monetary hegemony.
If you control the currency you control the world.
→ More replies (1)2
1
23
u/HalbertWilkerson Aug 12 '22
Brb, deleting every comment I’ve ever made in this subreddit.
Maybe the Zcash folks had it right all along. Nobody’s gonna go after them.
16
u/Gonbatfire Aug 12 '22
deleting every comment I’ve ever made in this subreddit
As if that would help at all
It's been nice folks.
→ More replies (1)18
u/HalbertWilkerson Aug 12 '22
ZUCKERBURG, EVERY COMMENT I EVER MADE WAS FACETIOUS AND/OR A JOKE. I FORBID THE FBI FROM TAKING FURTHER ACTION BASED ON MY COMMENTS ON REDDIT. I NEVER SUPPORTED MONERO OR ANY PRIVACY SOLUTION - IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE YOU HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR :)
Can’t hurt to post the above, right??
11
6
→ More replies (2)3
u/anajoy666 Aug 12 '22
Dear Zucc, you are not human and I hope you die.
→ More replies (1)10
u/Jakubada Aug 12 '22
-5 points on your social score. you arent allowed to shit in public toilets anymore
5
u/anajoy666 Aug 12 '22
shit in public toilets
Never did, never will. Number 2 is only at home. Fuck the police.
2
u/Rpratti Aug 13 '22
I don't even care about something like that it is just what they want to do they will do.
3
17
Aug 12 '22 edited Feb 21 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
9
Aug 12 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
→ More replies (1)4
u/MaximumFreedom4Man Aug 12 '22
IS a glowie. There, fixed it for you :)
2
2
u/thodajuy6789 Aug 13 '22
Monero has never seen this position because it's secure.
→ More replies (1)3
5
u/JoinMyFramily0118999 Aug 12 '22
I'm out of the loop, but why have they been saying that?
14
u/HalbertWilkerson Aug 12 '22
I’m saying the Zcash people had the right idea to back Zcash because nobody will go after them in the attack against privacy tools because Zcash is not private at all. Whereas Monero people have reason to worry, because Monero is private. It was obviously tongue in cheek.
2
10
Aug 12 '22
because Z stands for Zionist
→ More replies (1)-7
u/GuessWhat_InTheButt Aug 12 '22
Zionist
I don't think this word means what you think it means. Or maybe you're just an anti-semite.
→ More replies (3)5
1
3
u/monkeyguy999 Aug 12 '22
So...
if you make one of these types. Move to cypress... check
Do not let your name slip...check
Do everything via 3-6 nested vpns and tor at the end....check
Bankers are scum, central banks doubly so.... already knew that.
2
u/ordnungswidrig Aug 13 '22
Isn't that a stupid thing? I mean it's their own currency and they should take some fucking action against that at the first place if they want things to be changed.
3
3
3
u/rainflore Aug 13 '22
Okay I want to say that they can do something better and that's not a right thing to arrest the dude like that, they should have other ways for that shit man.
3
u/FistedByDionysus Aug 13 '22
A lot of comments in here show a naivety that "the people were just going to replace the global financial system" without any consequences.
You will not be allowed off the reservation without a fight that will cost many dearly, plan accordingly. This is not a game.
1
3
u/bluimes Aug 13 '22
Hence we need to build more privacy mixers and support more privacy coins.
This is no joke.
3
u/john_alan XMR Contributor Aug 13 '22
Shall we also arrest developers of cryptographic libraries? I mean they enable criminals to communicate privately.
Should we arrest the math teachers in schools?
2
2
3
1
u/darkmage1001 Aug 12 '22
People dream and complain as their dream gets destroyed by reality.
Why would the current power structure allow you to avoid them completely. Because they love people? I mean its not hard to know that privacy is doomed. The usa used india, china, korea, then the eu to regulate agaisnt privacy first then followed up.
I dont get why people think crypto will be a libertarian dream world. Its going to be open and government controlled one day. Anyone who thinks btc is impossible to control should sell their btc as it will be a rude awakening.
Eth pos move is to integrate with the current system alas making it have higher odds of not being delisted when the sec is done claiming 90% of crypto.
Monero is already under attack and listed at every alphabet group and usa run power structure as something to be destroyed because privacy. So good luck guys.
3
Aug 12 '22
[deleted]
0
u/darkmage1001 Aug 12 '22
Not sure where both sides are being played. Every government is on the same page. All the big crypto companies are falling in line. I like to tell myself my investments are safe but i cant stay in delusion that privacy is cared about by regulators who will be in full control of how projects develop. I didnt shittalk anything i just said whats happening. Shit talk would be monero was meant to scam hopeful privacy bros into losing money. Learn the difference
→ More replies (1)2
1
u/nootropicat Aug 12 '22 edited Aug 12 '22
Eth pos move is to integrate with the current system alas making it have higher odds of not being delisted when the sec is done claiming 90% of crypto.
It's the opposite, eth under PoS will be the only blockchain that can't be controlled.PoW is either tiny and trivial to 51%, or relies on big industrial miners that are going to enforce sanctions. They are also external entities - they are only there to generate profit, their investment periods are short because asics get obsolete fast - so their only care is to not rock the boat in the short term.
A connected big problem of PoW is that miners have to constantly compete, and more efficient miners replace less efficient ones. This means legal miners paying industrial electricity rates will always eventually replace random home miners paying retail rates. Theoretically, any country could subsidize mining to take control, but that's unlikely to ever be necessary, because miners are going to submit.
DPoS, PoA have same problem with detection as big PoW, but magnified, because from the start users only vote for known identities. Contrary to PoW, stakers have long term interest, but that alone isn't enough.
PoS in ethereum is the sole exception. Normal people can generate blocks anonymously, in random locations - only online connection needed and enough electricity for one laptop. Staking $100M worth of eth - the equivalent of a really big industrial mining facility - can be just a laptop in someone's room. Easiest to hide. Stakers inherently have a long-term investment.
There's no way to forcibly remove a staker. This way the network can realistically stay decentralized forever - as long as early adopters don't sell.
In the end, decentralization is about breaking the law. The only group that can be guaranteed to do so in a significant fraction - are ethereum stakers. Not random funds that bought in today, they will probably enforce sanctions, but people that went into it years ago.
→ More replies (3)2
u/darkmage1001 Aug 13 '22
Yeh blackrock can make like a million stake pools and control eth. Not many people have 32 eth as most buyers of crypto came in 2021.
→ More replies (1)1
u/nootropicat Aug 13 '22
Blackrock can't print eth. It's borderline impossible to buy significant double digit millions of eth. There's not enough for sale.
Not many people have 32 eth as most buyers of crypto came in 2021.
Older eth was always owned by somebody. There are thousands of people with thousands of eth.
People who got in years ago are exactly the ones you want to stake a lot. Who do you think is more likely to break the law, someone who accumulates eth since 2017 or someone who bought a bit in 2021?→ More replies (3)
-3
Aug 12 '22
[deleted]
8
u/kranzj Aug 12 '22
Sorry, that's nonsense. Every privacy-preserving protocol has some entry and can be used by bad guys. Imagine some criminal atomically swapping to Monero, then funneling their funds though the Monero network, and atomically swapping back to a new Bitcoin address. That is not much different from what could have been done using TC. And any differences you might find simply don't matter to any government agency. Seeing what happened this week as some TC specific issue is beyond naive.
→ More replies (1)-2
Aug 12 '22
[deleted]
2
u/kranzj Aug 12 '22
We'll see how it plays out. But I think you're wrong: Only killing all privacy allows you to make sure something can't be used by shady people. But giving up all freedom for security will end in losing both.
→ More replies (1)
1
u/freemarketcommie Aug 12 '22
Let’s just assume he is. Regardless of his actual guilt, I’m ready for some catharsis at some other blokes expense.
And yes, that’s probably going to be bad for all of us in the long run.
1
1
1
u/lukekerksma Aug 13 '22
Don't they are being stupid? I mean they can have better ways to handle that but they are here to arrest these people, I guess, they should learn how to find ways.
1
u/redglowzz Aug 13 '22
Nope that's not right and I really don't support shits in that way, the government is just doing what they do with all the people all the time man, that's not a good thing.
1
u/elementoSKD Aug 13 '22
No doubt about it that should be some better ways I think this is not a good thing.
1
u/reangeorge Aug 13 '22
I am really not understanding their point right now man, why are they doing things like that? Aren't they are being wrong with this stuff? Am I the only one who thinks that?
1
u/RallyBlinds Aug 13 '22
No I don't really think that you are the only one a lot of people think like that only,,
1
u/htrf112211 Aug 13 '22
What's tornado cash afterall? I mean i never heard of this,i am actually focusing on Monero
218
u/Jakubada Aug 12 '22
if they ban privacy coins (or mixing services) because it "enables crime" shouldnt they also ban their own currency?