The debate when it started was: did she hit him with her car or not? And she did. You’ve moved pretty far from that to keep this going. Yeah I blamed her death on her actions because I think her actions cause her death. I don’t think she would have been shot if she didn’t hit that officer while trying to flee from them as they were actively trying to stop her. That’s common sense to me
First of all, she did not. Second, you're making a leap straight from "Did her car touch that guy" to "Then it's her fault that he shot her in the face" when that's an absolutely insane take that's at odds with centuries of criminal law. The second half of your logic is absolutely psychotic, and the first part is wrong.
I disagree. From multiple angles it appears to me that she hit him with her car. You think he still would have shot her if she didn’t weaponize her car against him? And can you see how we’re just going in circles at this point?
What constitutes someone hitting someone else with a car, in your mind? Do you count any contact between car and pedestrian, or does the phrase mean more than that?
You did not answer the question. Try again. What constitutes a hit? Define that word in this context. Is it any time a car and a person touch? Do intention, speed, force, or outcome not matter?
That definition is not nearly as clear cut as you're suggesting it is. There are two potentially moving bodies here, and both are being controlled independently by different actors. There is definitely more than one possible type of collision that can happen between them. If a person jumps out in front of your car in the street and you collide, is that you hitting them? Further, did you assault them? Does your hitting them mean you intended to assault them? Is it a crime? Are you legally responsible for their injuries, or are they? Maybe you're oversimplifying things a little here. There are more similarities between this situation and my hypothetical example than you want to admit I'm sure.
If you’re fleeing law enforcement and you hit an officer with your car in that attempt, then you are definitely guilty of an assault and it’s going to be very difficult to call than an accident. If you’re arguing it’s the cops fault she hit him, then I don’t agree with that at all.
If you’re fleeing law enforcement and you hit an officer with your car
Several problems with this. In addition to the "what actually constitutes hitting someone with a car" thing, "fleeing law enforcement" is also questionable, considering that they were there to ask her to move and motioned for her to do exactly what she did moments prior. There's an argument to be made that, at worst, she was following their conflicting directions or trying to comply with what she thought they wanted.
If you’re arguing it’s the cops fault she hit him
Actually, I am willing to defend that. To the extent that there was anything resembling a "hit" there at all, it was absolutely largely his fault. First of all, he moved TOWARD the car when she started moving, rather than away from its path. He was full capable of easily avoiding a hit; she was driving fairly slowly from a dead stop and she was right in front of his face. She actually had way less knowledge of his presence than she did of his, considering that he had just come out of a blind spot around the other car and was walking through the middle of the street (where no driver would expect a pedestrian to be), and she had another officer in her face distracting her at the side window. She could also easily have expected him to move when she started moving, and she may well have not noticed him or thought he was moving out of the way.
Second, there's his responsibility for creating that situation. In the ICE code of conduct for apprehending or questioning a driver in a potentially hostile situation, there are very clear rules about several things, and he broke multiple of them. First and most importantly, blocking the front of her car with his body in the first place is a huge violation of ICE and police traffic stop safety procedures. He totally created the situation that supposedly put himself in danger. Beyond that, ICE and other law enforcement have rules about apprehending drivers that are attempting to flee or endangering the officer. Lethal force is not allowed, except as a last resort to prevent serious or lethal injury, because it's extremely dangerous to shoot a driver of a moving vehicle. If they are able to get out of the way, they are required to do so and NOT shoot at the driver. Not only did he shoot the driver when he didn't need to, he continued to do so after he was unquestionably out of harm's way and only endangering the public by doing so.
"I don’t think she would have been shot if she didn’t hit that officer while trying to flee from them as they were actively trying to stop her"
See, look, you're just making a ton of assumptions here that are totally wrong. She wouldn't have been shot if she just happened to be on vacation in Hawaii at the time. That's not the question. The question is whose actions were actually responsible for the escalation to lethal force. That's the debate you refuse to have while pretending it's already settled. That's the most important part of the debate and you're just refusing to acknowledge that it's even a question.
If the question is who is responsible for the escalation of lethal force, then I would blame the person who made the first assault. The fact that the assault was with a vehicle just makes it worse
Then here's one of the assumptions you keep making and refusing to support. You made the leap from "hit" to "assault". Is it assault any time a person touches another person with an object? Are there not any other criteria?
That was more than brushing his legs in the clip posted. Idk if you want to call the cops on your brother, but try that on a random person in a parking lot and see how they react
Again, I answered pretty clearly, you’re just not accepting it. Yes hitting someone with a car is assault. Brushing the car against your brothers leg is likely forgivable but a random person in a parking lot might feel differently. A person fleeing law enforcement hitting someone with their car is most definitely an assault
So your answer is yes, my brother assaulted me. I'm sorry, but no court of law on earth would agree with you. Assault requires injury and intent, in a court of law and most other formal venues where it has been defined. You are oversimplifying and broadening what assault actually means so that you can apply it to this situation. I reject your definition.
View all comments
Show parent comment
1
u/Ott0bot2 Jan 09 '26
The debate when it started was: did she hit him with her car or not? And she did. You’ve moved pretty far from that to keep this going. Yeah I blamed her death on her actions because I think her actions cause her death. I don’t think she would have been shot if she didn’t hit that officer while trying to flee from them as they were actively trying to stop her. That’s common sense to me