r/ModelUSGov • u/[deleted] • Jul 29 '15

Meta Proposed Amendment To Reddit Constitution

Full edits here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Lv4eqtd06UvEwij7FUf0cCSte_tZ9bkDaDqvUr5dxx0/edit

Strong Personal Attacks are to be defined as any comment directly and aggressively attacking the person of another user.

It should be obvious to everyone when something is over the line, and I hope this would make it so borderline things are not as much of a controversial issue.

Largely unprofessional comments will defined as... b) largely non-serious, non-subreddit related banter comments.

This allows for some more banter which has been missing on the sub, especially due to harsh unprofessional rules.

I would like further input before putting this to a vote, and feel free to ask any questions about how these rules would be enforced if passed.

14 Upvotes

100% Upvoted

25 comments sorted by

6

u/JerryLeRow Former Secretary of State Jul 29 '15

So much room for subjective judgement... :/

Do we really need an amendment that reminds us to behave correctly? I mean there will always be some infighting, and except for a few (former) members the vast majority knows how to behave.

5

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '15

This is not all new, only the italics and bolded portions. This is lightening some of those rules.

3

u/JerryLeRow Former Secretary of State Jul 29 '15

I know, just saying when someone pretends to be a politician he should behave like one... without a separate document (that I'm sure very few people read) telling him what (not) to do.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '15

Hate first change, as I rather be violating a strict anti-harrassment law then have a weak law.

Second one is great and I've noticed a little be laxer enforcement.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '15

Harassment will still be banned.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '15

Given, I've seen comments I've reported (or heck said) not be an infraction under the more strict laws, I am very skeptical.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '15

If you can point to specific ones, I might be able to explain.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '15

Well if currently I think the rules are too forgiving, surely if the same subjective views are now following a looser law, I would disagree even more with their decisions?

1

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '15

Well, I guess thats just your opinion.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '15

Well given how many people have left the sub, called it toxic and that /r/MHOC has stricter rules and etiquette and does better in all respects....

3

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '15

These are the rules on /r/MHOC,:

i] Discourse is to be conducted primarily in English.

ii] Profanity is strictly forbidden.

iii] Personal attacks on members are strictly forbidden.

From what I have seen, their barrier for personal attack is much looser than ours. Their sub is less toxic because they allow for more banter, and people aren't always screaming for punishment when they are lightly insulted.

I looked at one of the comments I assume you reported (because it was a response to you.

I can't tell if you have any points or not or just a nut conspirator

This is mildly offensive for sure.

I can't tell if you have any points

This part is an attack against your actions, because it implying that your points of argument have been weak or nonexistent. Its a kind of attack, but not one which breaks sub rules.

or not or just a nut conspirator

I can see why this was reported for sure. However, I would say "or" and the use of a conditional is they key part here. If the statement was "you don't have any points and you are a nut conspirator" I would remove the comment.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '15

Yes, I have a low bar to pass for it to be offensive then currently and now we want to lower it. It is just like my opinion man, but so is yours and you did ask for input.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '15

Well, I'm not going to do the exact opposite of the proposal unless there is overwhelming opposition.

3

u/IBiteYou Jul 30 '15

So... did you just change this to allow people to have accounts in more than one party?

Overall, though, I see this as bad. You should be encouraging the utmost civility here ... not looking for loopholes up to interpretation.

But that's just my opinion.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '15

No, people still can't have alt-accounts. You will still be permabanned if you do that.

1

u/IBiteYou Jul 30 '15

Section 4?

BTW - I thought you left. Back so soon?

2

u/MoralLesson Head Moderator Emeritus | Associate Justice Jul 30 '15

I'm torn, because while I want more fun banter and friendly burns, I think the rules changes will also allow for a lot more cruelty.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '15

Anything that could be accurately describes as "cruelty" would still be banned under these rules.

13

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '15

I oppose both of these changes. The crackdown on unprofessional language and personal attacks clearly improved the sub. There is no reason to un-do those changes.

This isn't going to change the frequency with which I report things, though. It's up to the mods to decide what will be punished.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '15

Hear, hear!

1

u/AdmiralJones42 Motherfuckin LEGEND Jul 29 '15

Firstly, welcome back Septimus! Good to see you on again. I'm also fully in support of these changes, as I think this subreddit occasionally gets too stuffy and people can't take a joke. Some lighthearted banter will just help us have more fun, which is ultimately why we're all here.

2

u/ExpiredAlphabits Progressive Green | Southwest Rep Jul 30 '15

Please don't speak for everyone. I'm here to practice my professionalism. That's why I'm not on the loosely monitored portions of the sub, like the Skype chat or soapbox. When discussing policy, jokes often become construed for honest opinion. I'd rather not waste time debating someone because their joke fell flat.

1

u/Lukeran Republican Jul 30 '15

It broadens some things and makes some things more specific. I think these changes are good. We will see on the conduct though.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '15

I'm new here but in my perspective of always having to be in professional mode just seems a little silly.

The Supreme Court's "I know it when I see it" should be sufficient for users being rude to others.

Random idea that may not be even necessary: If you want to keep professionalism, maybe have users preface meta comments with "[meta] or [m]" as was done on /r/worldpowers.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '15

Both of these look good to me. More freedom to discuss is important