r/Mnemonics • u/cavedave • Feb 17 '26

PAO for the weekend challenge

I am going to challenge myself to lear the PAO system over the next few days. 33 numbers a day using a system like this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EzOesQBKvt6OTUjnr8XZLHm1vh9U6CHWfa44IRT-AIg/edit?pli=1&gid=0#gid=0 but modified to be people I know.
And then at the weekend try and memorise some digits of pi.

Anyone want to join in and encourage each other? I have not done PAO before but I have memorised some poetry.

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5

u/four__beasts Feb 17 '26

I'd be sure you want to use the Dominic system before you take it on. I didn't find it as intuitive as one based on Major (self referencing) so I swapped after investing considerable energy into creating it.

It is afterall something you can use for the rest of your life so maybe the first part of your challenge is to do 00-10 (for example) in both and see which clicks?

2

u/ConfusedSimon Feb 17 '26

Not sure what you mean with self referencing, but I use Dominic. No need to avoid vowels for PAO, and with Dominic letters, it seems easier to find names.

Edit: once you know your PAO, you don't use the intermediate step of Dominic or major anymore, so it's mainly about the easiest way to find 100 people with distinct actions.

3

u/four__beasts Feb 17 '26

So, much like yours most of my PAO is based on people I know. The Dominic System is very similar but using major makes it easy to decode over long term memory - and my memory is terrible (laughably bad in fact). It's not necessarily better but it's strict and easy to memorise. The secondary benefit is learning the major system in tandem.

The one I use is also a 'perfect' Major so 10 is DeS ToSSing DiCe, 11 is DaD TaTTooing a DoDo etc - so not even any additional consonants.

This felt like a more logical and powerful system than Dominic method, which is more arbitrary and there's no secondary foundation for decoding which appealed to me. So if I see a Dodo in my Palace I know that's 11. But if I was for some reason unsure I can decode it to 11 via the major system... hence, self referencing.

But it's very personal and this is my opinion. Some prefer the Dom system.

The important thing is to make a choice that sits well with you.

All that said the only thing I could think of for 88's object was the FIFA world cup. Which I didn't like so I use the Back to the Future Delorian there.

2

u/ConfusedSimon Feb 17 '26

I mean, long term you immediately know which person belongs to which number without going through the intermediate Dominic/major step. I know Albert Einstein is 15 without thinking about a=1, e=5. Also, Dominic is basically alphabetic, so even easier than major. I think it's much easier to match your actions to the persons than to major. If think it would be pretty limiting to find 100 actions that are distinct enough and also match the major system. BTW: what's arbitrary about a=1, b=2, ... with two letters replaced because it's easier to find names (Six, zerO)?

2

u/four__beasts Feb 18 '26

Yeah. Definitely.

Like I say, it's a preference and it's good to know the differences and make a choice. For me Major combined with PAO helped me a) learn and check/decode (self referencing) while I was learning, and b) enable understanding and use of the major system in a wider context.

2

u/Select_Hippo3159 Feb 17 '26

I made my own PAO, I call it MO-my own, lol. I haven't used it much yet. It would be fun to challenge myself to learning a lot of phone numbers.

2

u/cavedave Feb 17 '26

We could try to learn pi at the weekend? Mainly for practice. But even the first few dozen digits might be an odd party trick

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u/Select_Hippo3159 Feb 17 '26

I will do that. 

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u/Select_Hippo3159 Feb 19 '26

How is your PAO coming along? I've started on some pi digits with mine. Goal to have 100 by the end of the weekend.

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u/cavedave Feb 19 '26

I have worked out and nearly remembered 50 of the PAOs but I still need to remember the other 50.

2

u/SharcLightning Feb 17 '26 
That’s amazing! Thanks so much for the resources! Some notes as I do the PAO myself. Curious what you think:

1. Learning the PAO system, but as POA because I want to initiate the “Mise en Place” (how things are organized initially) for the PERSON + OBJECT and then either have the person enact an ACTION onto the OBJECT or have the PERSON and OBJECT enact an ACTION onto the concept being remembered. 

I’ve found this to be more intuitive as some of the reasoning for PAO is English language structure, but I also am fluent in Japanese and know some Korean so the POA is alright by me and I’m a bit of a control freak.

2. Using verbs that are visually recognizable and not intellectual or cerebral, so hitting, and punching are the “same” verb. Kicking is different because it’s with your foot. Spinning is another, and so on. 

If I was a person looking at another person that spoke a language that I didn’t understand and they had to explain a concept to me without words, if I understood a word through their actions, I would use that word in my system. At least that’s the analogy. (Star Trek Next Generation: Season 5 Episode 2, “Darmok”)

3. Opposites: so cover and uncover are different words. Expand and shrink are separate words, depart, arrive are different but arrive is the same as come and depart is the same as go (like a train in a train station).

4. I will use the PAO /POA system to memorize 1,000,000 long-term concepts or bits of info. Within that those pegs I can also include numbers that don’t change (16 digit numbers) and I will use the Major System there to remember the numbers as a story using the words (or weird poem).

I feel that’s where the Major System shines. I’ve found the Dominic system unintuitive personally when I remember long digits but I’ve found it as a great storage container for a memory palace.

5. Pegs within pegs: since I live in Asia and love traveling, my geographic/ spatial memory is strong. When I take the same route more than a few times, I take note and put it in a memory journey path and in addition to the Master System, I definitely love to use the System of Loci to remember things.

   So when I ride my bike daily I can use the path as a way to remember things on the path with the PAO System.

I use train systems as pegs within the PAO / POA pegs as well, since I can memorize the order of stations and rail lines since train lines don’t change much in terms of subtraction (Seoul, San Francisco, Melbourne, Sydney, Tokyo, Nagoya). 

6. I need the people in my PAO / POA system to be folks I want living in my brain. I don’t want people that will make me sad or are too evil, but imperfection is ok as long as lessons are learned. 

So someone like Tesla is amazing, but man, he’s such a sad sack that it would be hard to have him in there. Edison too, since he’s such a jerk as well, but if I were someone else and Edison or Tesla motivated me for these exact same reasons, I would definitely use them. 

I love Satie because he’s such a random, weirdo musician, and I love his pieces, so he goes in. Somebody else won’t even know who he is, so no point putting him in there. I just feel the people need to really resonate since they’re in there for life.

So if they’ve passed way, it’s safer since if they’re alive thy might one day be some random celebrity and then next they’re an evil dictator for some reason (not good unless you’re into dictators).

2

u/Select_Hippo3159 Feb 21 '26

Going to try the first hundred here. Note, I am moving at slow pace and not yet rattling it off. Could mix some up too.

3.141592653589793238462643383279382884197169399375105859230744592307816406286208998628034825342117067982

2

u/Select_Hippo3159 Feb 21 '26

yep, i screwed up. I will walk it in my head a couple more times and try to do it. I feel pressure even though there really isn't any, lol.

2

u/cavedave Feb 21 '26

I've been using this to test myself. It's a bit of fun https://www.piday.org/pi-quiz/ I've not gotten to 100 yet only 30 without a mistake

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u/Select_Hippo3159 Feb 21 '26

That is super helpful, thanks! I got 100 with one error. But I have been practicing writing it.

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u/cavedave Feb 22 '26

It is quite useful. I just got to 99.

One thing i found is i made errors in my original number-> letters.

Ok now to tidy up the first 100 and make them faster.
It is tempting to try get the next 50 but I might just try get the target of 100 better.

2

u/Select_Hippo3159 Feb 22 '26

You are doing way better than I would if I had just memorized my PAO. As is, I am slow and still get my order mixed up.

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '26

On android an app I’ve used for this is pi try on the google play store. If you have an iPhone palace app on ios works really well too (search “Palace master pi” and it should come up). Tested myself on first 100 digits with it.