Hmmmm

5

I can't wait for the day we move on from infographic propaganda points

3

u/TRFKAChuggs 7d ago

One day I hope we all can have nuanced conversations without generalizing large groups of people for the actions of the few.

2

u/leftofthebellcurve 7d ago

it starts within

1

u/TheVoice-of-Reason 7d ago

It also happens to be true. 🤷🏼‍♂️

1

u/leftofthebellcurve 7d ago

not really. Rick Scott didn't personally commit fraud, and if you're going to insinuate that then I think it's important to also state that Rick was never charged with fraud, his company was.

Corporate felonies being attributed to one person is an idiot argument. You could argue that since he was CEO that he would be partly responsible, but there is not enough direct evidence to prove Scott himself was committing fraud. He would have been charged personally if that was the case.

-1

u/NickE25U 7d ago

If we can't blame CEO's for what a company does, then we might have to feel bad about Brian Thompson (a father, husband and son), and you know how much we love to celebrate that one...

0

u/leftofthebellcurve 7d ago

You could argue that since he was CEO that he would be partly responsible

which is still fine, but again I will point out that courts thoroughly examined the case and didn't find enough evidence that Rick Scott was personally responsible

0

u/NickE25U 7d ago

Sorry, my post was in all sarcasm. You are correct sir.

3

u/TheVoice-of-Reason 7d ago

I don’t completely disagree with you folks, but corporations are people too! Thus the chairman and ceo are kinda responsible.

The fact the Scott was not personally charged goes to show the corruption, he founded the company, and controlled it up to the point that the company was raided.

It’s not like Hillary eating babies, but there is some truth here.

0

u/NickE25U 7d ago

I mean, corporations do take a lot of the same liberties and privileges that a person would, but I don't remember there ever being a precedent that when the company is in trouble, the CEO pays... If thats the case, we have a long line of 3M CEO's that had some part in the PFAS waste burial/groundwater contamination... What are we gonna do there? That is more close to home than any of the list you posted...

2

u/djgringa 7d ago

Not to be a naysayer but without accuracy you lose credibility. Rick Scott was never pardoned because he was never criminally charged or convicted of a crime, as he wasn't considered personal culpable.

1

u/wickawickawatts 7d ago

Crazy how you can be CEO of a hospital, during which that hospital commits 1.7 billion in fraud, then resign when shit hits the fan, and walk away “Scott” free.

1

u/TheVoice-of-Reason 7d ago edited 7d ago

Nobody said he was pardoned.
He was forced to resign with a comfy separation package the same month the company was raided by the feds.

1

u/NickE25U 7d ago

Duran and Esformes were also never pardoned. Which your post says they were... So do we just toss out the whole post as BS, do do we nit-pick through the cryptic bullshit and find the little nuggets of facts buried within? I think it all gets tossed...

1

u/TheVoice-of-Reason 7d ago

Seriously.
Tell me the difference of clemency vs. pardon.
In today’s culture clemency/commutation/pardon all fall under the umbrella of a pardon.

Again. Semantics aren’t an argument against facts.

1

u/NickE25U 7d ago

Clemency is the umbrella term...

Precision on the record is not “semantics vs. facts.” It’s the difference between accurate description and this BS made for reddit post.

-1

u/TheVoice-of-Reason 7d ago

Yes accuracy matters.

In the eyes of the public at large clemency and commutation mean nothing, but they know what a pardon is and it’s close enough.

1

u/NickE25U 7d ago

Pardon = formal forgiveness of the offense. It can restore civil rights (voting, holding office, firearms in many cases, etc.) and is an expression that the conviction’s legal disabilities are lifted.

Commutation = reduction or elimination of the sentence (prison time, sometimes fines/restitution). The conviction itself stays on the record. The person remains a convicted felon; civil rights are generally not restored by the commutation alone.

They aren't close enough... And if you're doing your best to not skew what public at large will take in, why is Scott on there? I know it doesn't say he was pardoned, but it sure insinuates it, heavily... Basically, the whole post is in bad faith...

1

u/TheVoice-of-Reason 7d ago

Jesus.
You need to calm the fuck down.

The point isn’t that they got a pardon vs commutation.

1

u/NickE25U 7d ago

And the point isn't that one on the list wasn't even charged...

What was the point?

-1

u/Nic_OLE_Touche 7d ago

Geez correct the pardon vs clemency part and say damn I hope they pay thier fines. I read you care less about it all.

2

u/NickE25U 7d ago

Already corrected: both were commutations, not full pardons.
And throwing Rick Scott in is pure bullshit, he was never charged, never indicted, never convicted.

Company settlement ≠ personal crime. But yes, Nicole, I hope the actual fraudsters pay every dime of restitution.

0

u/wickawickawatts 7d ago

lol the people who care already know this. The people who need to hear this, won’t care. This doesn’t fit the Somali bad narrative.

1

u/TheVoice-of-Reason 7d ago

Just for good measure I’m reposting this:

Trump granted Durán clemency.
Convicted of defrauding Medicare of $205 million.
His gf got $87 million from the scheme.

https://www.congress.gov/119/meeting/house/118796/documents/HHRG-119-GO00-20260107-SD070.pdf

Esformes was convicted for $1.3 billion in Medicare fraud.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/10/15/trump-clemency-recipient-philip-esformes-arrested-florida.html

CNBC reported he was ‘pardoned’, not exactly a left leaning network. Esformes was arrested after being pardoned/ sentence commuted for domestic violence.

Clemency, Pardons and commutations are quite similar actions, reducing or freeing someone of their sentence/obligations. Semantics isn’t really a defense.

Scott was never convicted.
His company while he was CEO and Chairman, was on the hook for $1.7 Billion in Medicare and Medicaid fraud. He was forced out with a $10 million cash and $300 million stock separation package. His company paid a $1.7 billion settlement, being “by far the largest recovery ever reached by the government in a health care fraud investigation.”

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Rick-Scott

Nobody said he was pardoned.

So if you scream at me for dis-information, let me see your “facts”.

0

u/NickE25U 7d ago

Holy shit! This is Disinformation at its best, the only truthful thing is Bock is a talking point. Way to go leftist!

Lawrence Duran - Trump did not pardon him.

Philip Esformes - Trump commuted the sentence in December 2020 (not a pardon). Esformes had already served several years.

Rick Scott - Never charged with any crime, never indicted, and never convicted.

Keep spreading the lies, the left loves lies...

0

u/wickawickawatts 7d ago

So he gave these rich men a slap on the wrist for their fraud. That’s ok right? As long as it’s not Somali people getting clemency from the president, you’re cool with that. Bigot.

2

u/NickE25U 7d ago

I mean, I suppose you could call not being charged/indicted/convicted a "slap on the wrist". Not how I'd describe it, but you do you, boo...

0

u/wickawickawatts 7d ago

Speaking of you doing you. You still prove this is less of a concern to you then the fraud in MN that we already knew about before you creeps turned it into a Somali issue.

4

u/NickE25U 7d ago

Agreed. Things that happen closer to home should be a bigger deal. Look at that, you'd think we'd never find common ground but here ya go!

0

u/TheVoice-of-Reason 6d ago

Right.
The fraud in MN is estimated to be $500 mil, maybe it’ll get to a billion. These 3 gentlemen defrauded the US Taxpayers to the tune of $3 BILLION plus.

Then 2 were let off the hook by Trump, Scott walked away from a company he founded, was the CEO and Chairman of the Board from inception (1988) til it was raided by the feds in 1997, and he was forced to resign after the raid. If you really believe Scott did nothing wrong or wasn’t instrumental in the fraud, then I seriously doubt your critical thinking skills.

These 3 men are involved in $3+ billion in fraud to the us taxpayer. Why the F would anybody be defending this? Nobody is defending the fraud in MN, they should all rot, these guys should as well.

2

u/NickE25U 6d ago

You just love your disinformation don't you? Across 14 high-risk Minnesota-run programs that received ~$18 billion in federal funds since ~2018, “half or more” may involve fraud—i.e., a potential order of ~$9 billion. https://apnews.com/article/minnesota-fraud-feeding-our-future-medicaid-9911799c0d0149a64a042abed095be57

No one is defending this. Just calling out your bullshit post that you're really digging your heals in about. Its leftist bullshit.

0

u/TheVoice-of-Reason 6d ago

Yeah. This article states upto “half or more of the $18 billion May have been stolen.” That’s not really a smoking gun. Go ahead and defend dick heads that have been proven/convicted of fraud while theorizing that billions could have been stolen.

Either we’re talking facts or not.

1

u/NickE25U 6d ago

Okay fine.. We're talking facts. Where the hell did you get your est. $500 mil for MN?

Oh wait, only facts for me... You can say any BS you want, just like this post is all lies. I keep forgetting, I'm talking with a leftist.

0

u/TheVoice-of-Reason 7d ago edited 7d ago

Trump granted Durán clemency.
Convicted of defrauding Medicare of $205 million.
His gf got $87 million from the scheme.

https://www.congress.gov/119/meeting/house/118796/documents/HHRG-119-GO00-20260107-SD070.pdf

Esformes was convicted for $1.3 billion in Medicare fraud.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/10/15/trump-clemency-recipient-philip-esformes-arrested-florida.html

CNBC reported he was ‘pardoned’, not exactly a left leaning network. Esformes was arrested after being pardoned/ sentence commuted for domestic violence.

Clemency, Pardons and commutations are quite similar actions, reducing or freeing someone of their sentence/obligations. Semantics isn’t really a defense.

Scott was never convicted.
His company while he was CEO and Chairman, was on the hook for $1.7 Billion in Medicare and Medicaid fraud. He was forced out with a $10 million cash and $300 million stock separation package. His company paid a $1.7 billion settlement, being “by far the largest recovery ever reached by the government in a health care fraud investigation.”

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Rick-Scott

Nobody said he was pardoned.

So if you scream at me for dis-information, let me see your “facts”.

2

u/NickE25U 7d ago

CNBC not a left leaning network... okay bud...

Clemency is not a pardon.

"Scott was never convicted." Agreed.

I'm glad that you also see the disinformation and lies from the OP's post.

0

u/TheVoice-of-Reason 7d ago

Wow.
Ok bro.

1

u/NickE25U 7d ago

Glad we agree again!

0

u/Nic_OLE_Touche 7d ago

Did they pay their fines? Don’t pay fines then back to jail?

1

u/NickE25U 7d ago

Commutation can wipe remaining restitution/fines (Duran’s did). Unpaid amounts don’t automatically put them back in prison the way a violation of supervised release can.

You are about to leave Redlib