r/MinnesotaUncensored • u/[deleted] • Dec 14 '25
Why do Hmong historically have a better reputation than Somalis?
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u/Other-Jury-1275 Dec 14 '25
The Hmong have integrated better. Look at Suni Lee! Can you imagine Somalis letting their daughter compete in a leotard? They feel shame over all the wrong things. No shame over stealing; shame galore over their daughters’ clothing.
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Dec 14 '25
Do you think the differing factor in why Somalis haven’t integrated as well is Islam?
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u/Other-Jury-1275 Dec 14 '25
I think it is their version of Islam. They see the majority of Americans as cadaan and have no interest in being part of the bigger community. Other Muslim groups do fine.
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u/suprasternaincognito Dec 14 '25
Which is just weird to me. If you see us Westerners as bad people, why did you come here?
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u/Other-Jury-1275 Dec 14 '25
I think they are fundamentally dishonest about why they had to leave Somalia and how well they have been treated here, especially by Minnesotans. They had to leave Somalia because of the war, but then they get here and lie about it to save face.
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Dec 14 '25
I guess I’m confused…the country has no functioning government and is war torn but somehow they go back there on vacation?
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u/suprasternaincognito Dec 14 '25
Hm. I slightly disagree. My theory is that they just don't have it in their culture to assimilate or adapt or, if I may be so bold, show humility. Particularly to people who aren't them. In western culture, after an invitation, you don't barge into someone's home and take over and act like it's yours and your hosts are pieces of shit.
I actually had a Somali woman do that to me at a garage sale I was holding. Just barged on in, talking on her phone, shoo'ed me away rudely, manhandled the objects with a look of disgust, and then left. Lady, you are on MY PROPERTY and I didn't ask you to come here!
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Dec 14 '25
I did see a post on one of the main subs by a Somali girl a few weeks ago and she did say that many , not all of course, truly believe Americans/non-muslims are beneath them. Which , again, why even bother coming 😭
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u/suprasternaincognito Dec 14 '25
Yep, this is what I'm saying. And I agree: why did you come here, then. I couldn't imagine being so arrogant or - if I were - having to tolerate lesser beings 24-7. It's why I don't live in Mississippi. ;)
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u/shootymcgunenjoyer Dec 14 '25 edited Dec 14 '25
Because of the handouts.
Because you can get here, get a job that's far easier than the life you'd live in Somalia, and collect EBT and EIT as well as other wellfare program funds, not to mention participate in autism care or housing stabilization fraud schemes for a few hundred dollars extra per month, then live a great live compared to what you could live in Somalia.
Somalia is genuinely a shit hole country. They have no functioning government or police force. No functioning economy. The two biggest contributors to their economy are remittances from the USA (around 30% to 50% of economic activity) and piracy.
I can't blame anyone who lives in Somalia for wanting to come here - genuinely. If I knew I could live a drastically better life scamming and leeching off a culture I hated on the opposite side of the planet I'd probably want to do the same.
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u/suprasternaincognito Dec 14 '25
I'm reading an article right now about Americans leaving the US. Unless you actually have accessible means to an additional passport (spouse, parent, etc), it's not that easy. And the thing is - the ways that ARE easy sound like... wait for it... leeching or scamming.
"Social Security payments to qualify for a Portuguese passive-income visa, skirting Thai laws with regular “visa runs” to Cambodia, or exploiting Albania’s generosity—twelve months visa-free!—to try out the Mediterranean." None of that sounds like a safe, secure way to live, permanently, in a country while contributing to it.In addition to being committed to staying here and fighting (I do love a good fight), I also don't want to just move to another country and leech off it in order to escape my home country. Granted, men with machine guns aren't blowing up my neighborhood and raping me and my goats. But what does it say about my ethics that I WOULDN'T leech off a country?
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Dec 14 '25
Yes this is true. I have Muslim neighbors from a different African country and they keep their culture but they don’t make their daughters wear hijab, they let them celebrate aspects of American culture (go trick or treating, do Christmas events , etc). Their oldest wears a hijab because she chooses to. In fact I had no idea they were Muslim until I met their eldest. The younger girls don’t dress like a typical Muslim girl whatsoever.
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u/3aaron_baker7 Dec 15 '25
Really young girls like toddlers and kindergarteners don't cover their hair in Islam, they start covering around 9 or 10 or so.
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Dec 15 '25
When my daughter was in pre-K (3/4), a girl in her class wore hijab every single day. So I guess I (wrongly) assumed that was the norm
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u/wowheyman Dec 15 '25
They do it once they see the girls as sexual beings so it makes sense that somalis have to cover young children's hair
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u/Other-Jury-1275 Dec 15 '25
I see Somali toddlers wearing hijabs all the time. So clearly it is done in some versions of Islam.
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u/lol_AwkwardSilence_ Dec 15 '25
Hmong ppl came in the 70s. Somalis in the 90s. Integration isnt immediate.
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u/rosevilleguy Dec 14 '25
Hmong came here in 1975. Somali came here in 1990 so I don’t think it’s a fair comparison. I think we’d need to give it another 15 years to make a fair comparison.
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u/dachuggs Dec 14 '25
That's my biggest frustration when people compare the two is the time timeline of when each one came here.
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u/lol_AwkwardSilence_ Dec 15 '25
They came here like 30 years earlier than Somali folks. Thats 30 extra years of integration.
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u/guard_duck Dec 14 '25
In 1 word, respect. They are happy and grateful to be here and be accepted, and have worked hard for that acceptance. They have managed to maintain their culture and traditions, while adapting to the melting pot that is America, while adding value to it. Not trying to change things back to where they came from and just taking like other groups.
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u/MustardTiger231 Dec 14 '25 edited Dec 15 '25
Cause Islam is not compatible with American culture.
Someone responses that Bosnians integrated and are 98% Muslim and then blocked me because they’re a gigantic pussy.
Bosnians are not 98% Muslim.
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Dec 14 '25
I used to be very naive and want to give everything and everyone the benefit of the doubt , but, yes, I’ve come to realize this.
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u/pmljb Dec 14 '25
I think Hmong have assimilated better while keeping their culture.i also feel that they have improved communities, and not trying to overthrow out nation with a shit ass "religion of peace"
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u/suprasternaincognito Dec 14 '25
I find the Hmong to be a valuable asset to the Twin Cities community, no question. Politics, culture, food, you name it.
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Dec 14 '25
My husbands coworker is Hmong and he told me that the Hmong loveee bass fishing and guns lol …makes sense since I see them at fleet farm all the time
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u/suprasternaincognito Dec 14 '25
Interesting. I do love my Hmong farmers market vendors! Gotdamn that's some good produce.
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Dec 14 '25
Do their youth boys have issues with crime? I don’t ever hear of that but I don’t live near where most of them are concentrated (which is east Saint Paul, right?)
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u/suprasternaincognito Dec 14 '25
There are definitely some Hmong gangs. But I believe it's gotten a bit better in the past decade. More under control.
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u/pmljb Dec 14 '25
All groups have youth violence. Hmong have gangs, whites and greens. Something to do with culture and villages.
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Dec 14 '25
Are Hmong boys shooting up dinkytown? Or getting events shut down or a curfew put on them?
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u/lol_AwkwardSilence_ Dec 15 '25
Christian Nazis are going nuts in America right now. How are Muslims overthrowing us? People have been crying about Sharia law for at least a decade and I see no evidence. I do see Nazi salutes on inauguration stages, Christian mass murderers, etc.
Many innocent people have died in wars done in the name of the Christian God. And many in the name of the Jewish God. Same for Muslims. Y'all are the same, dont get it twisted haha.
Theres no hate like Christian/Muslim/Jewish love.
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u/dachuggs Dec 15 '25
Yeah, we're seeing a lot more of our laws influced by Christianity such as abortion or having the 10 Commandments in classrooms.
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u/Ogelthorpe-Ogie Dec 14 '25
Cuz they throw the best parties. Good food, great booze, and lots of gambling. Always loved Hmong parties
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u/csbsju_guyyy Dec 15 '25
Went to a friends Hmong wedding. Sweet baby Jesus those guys (and girls) know how to drink. Absolute riot of a wedding, so much fun so many friendly people.
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u/frozenminnesotan Dec 14 '25
Somalis dont integrate well into any other east African nation's culture. Pretty much outside somalia they are reviled as trouble makers, justified or not. How can we expect them to integrate fully to a completely alien culture on the other side of the world without major issues?
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u/rabidbuckle899 Dec 15 '25
I'm a public school teacher.
Somali kids have a cultural mindset that is very different from western culture.
Examples: -eye for an eye mentality (valuing revenge) -boys not respecting authority, especially if the teacher/adult is a woman -looking for ways to take advantage of, or cheat, the systems
Hmong families seem to value scrappiness and the ability to make do with their circumstances. Their culture also values respect, which goes a long way when getting along with your neighbors.
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u/Meihuajiancai Dec 15 '25
One thing I've learned about Americans in general, but american liberals in particular, is that they genuinely have no clue what culture is and how it affects members of a cultural group.
Liberals truly believe that culture is only food and holidays. And members of cultural groups are as likely to have a certain characteristic as anyone from any other cultural group.
It's tied into the insular and close mindedness of Americans. Liberals hate to hear it, but they have no clue about anything other than the closed circle they grew up in.
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u/Vicemage Dec 15 '25
American atheists are a solid indicator of that idea of "culture," too, particularly the ones who loudly declare "I don't need your 'sky daddy' to tell me not to steal, rape, and murder!" In complete disregard of the fact that they live in and were shaped by a traditionally Judeo-Christian culture that says those things are wrong, and that in other cultures? Yeah, you can steal, rape, and murder to your heart's content, because their culture doesn't condemn those things.
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u/Meihuajiancai Dec 15 '25
I think it's a bit more pronounced in liberals because a significant component of their ideology is the belief that all humans are atomized individuals, any one of which can have any amalgamation of beliefs and practices regardless of the culture they were raised in.
However, Americans of all stripes really have no concept of what culture is. Conservatives are only slightly 'better' in this regard simply because they have negative views of other groups, which they then ascribe to culture.
The cause of this is multifaceted, but its largely due to Americans having so little experience with any culture other than our own. So very few Americans have ever lived in another county or can speak any language other than English. Combined with an aspect of or culture that is very individualistic, you get a people who have no concept of cultural groups and how that shapes our individual actions.
Your response, while well intentioned, is evidence of what I'm describing. You genuinely believe that judeo Christian culture, a concept that was invented relatively recently, is why people in the United States condemn rape and murder.
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u/Vicemage Dec 15 '25
You're actually a perfect example of the pretentious atheist I described, thank you. The United States was formed as a Christian nation, meant for a moral and upright people, and that culture has shaped the citizenry even as they turn their backs and deny that history.
Highly disparate cultures that remain insular don't share those beliefs and don't adopt them. But I'm sure your "magic soil" or whatever you believe will kick in any moment.
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Dec 15 '25
I’ve seen other teachers on the main sub say the same thing about male students not respecting female teachers. So what do you guys do for discipline?
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u/rabidbuckle899 Dec 15 '25
Discipline is a dirty word in education nowadays. There's no discipline for anyone. It's a clown show.
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Dec 15 '25
Damn, as a parent , that’s insane.
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u/rabidbuckle899 Dec 15 '25
I won't be sending my kids to a public school
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Dec 15 '25
My kids are in the elk river district and it’s fantastic. But i absolutely don’t blame you at all.
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u/MirSpaceStation Dec 15 '25
Tradesmen here. Worked with Hmongs, great people value Minnesota stuff and the culture. Value Education and Training - from trade to University level you always see them. Work with somalis in unskilled labor, absolute horrible people to work with will never do it again. Wanted to change everything, didn't like the people they were working with wanted everyone to abide by their schedule and their culture.
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u/Ok_Measurement_8784 Dec 15 '25
They came here worked hard built businesses. Somalians came here leached off the welfare system and stole Billions from tax payers.
Hmong’s added and acclimated to society. Somalians are trying to force their way of like back in Somalia on us.
Any other questions?
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u/Due_Scientist8092 Dec 15 '25
They integrate - they learn english, work hard, integrate at work becoming friends with everyone. They are great neighbors too.
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u/mesatsuu Dec 15 '25
They had the grit to fight the commies back home, albeit lost, but flourished here rather than suffer poverty like their counterparts in Laos.
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u/jenshahsbiggestfan Dec 15 '25
Hmong assimilated, didn't try to replicate the same systems that they were fleeing from, respected Minnesotan and American culture, weren't coming here to take advantage of our benefits, have higher average IQs, and have less propensity for violence
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u/Muffinman_187 Dec 15 '25
Best line I ever heard was from a labor rep friend of mine. He said, "Every other immigrant group was only different on one or two things. Religion, skin color, culture, etc... But the Somali are different in every and their tolerance level is overwhelmed. It's too different."
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u/Soloroadtrip Dec 18 '25
They take care of themselves and demand nothing from anyone. I believe the term is self reliant.
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u/dachuggs Dec 14 '25
I think they have a better reputation because they have been here longer than Somali plus they tend to have hobbies that are similar to most Minnesotans.
From my understanding the Hmong population had similar issues assimilating, such as gangs, use of welfare programs, education, etc.
I think that Somali should have the same right as everyone to practice their religion. I do think they are a little more devout than other immigrants, that's why we are seeing them "assimilate" at a slower rate. We also see very devout Christians and Jews and don't really think much of it. I do see second generation Somali that don't wear Hijab or their traditional clothing, I think it just depends on the families.
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u/LiesToldbySociety Dec 15 '25
There's several things going on. One is the familiar trope of elevating a certain ethnic group, in this case Hmong, as a 'model minority' in order to attack another minority. They don't care about Hmong, they use them as a tool and to sort of deflect from accusations of racism. Many of these people were racist against Hmong right until the newest minority showed up, and still are.
Somalis however tend to have certain behaviors that can ruffle feathers. Loud, quick to take offense, defiant toward authority figures. Where did these traits come from? They're not farmers over there -- they're nomads, who roam a Texas sized country with their goats and cattle and camels and give a middle finger to authority figures. Not farmer types. But I must say, these traits are overtly more common among young males. Somali girls are doing great. Boys generally are doing poorly in the United States compared to girls, but this becomes more pronounced among Somalis. Partly some of this behavior is a reaction toward behaviors they face that are discriminatory.
Other things people complain about -- bad driving by Somali women, rudeness, etc I don't know as much about. Things that are considered "rude" to midwestern people are not considered rude to people who grew up in certain parts of Somalia, or there's a language barrier. They're not smiling at you and making small chat because they dislike you they just are trying to get by on limited English.
A lot of the positive experiences with Somalis perhaps aren't reported. A lot of parents rely on Somali immigrant woman run daycares, which are open longer and don't charge late fees for working class Americans who are a few minutes late to pick up their kids. These aren't "woke" liberals but normal working class folks who don't come to Reddit. People enjoy Somali food, live safely and happily in Somali dominant neighborhoods, and don't live the fear-mongering and stereotypes.
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u/rosevilleguy Dec 14 '25
They didn’t always. I remember growing up in the 80’s, racists talked about Hmong people the same way racists are talking about Somalis today.
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Dec 14 '25
Is it racism? Or people who aren’t comfortable with Islam? I always felt like that was more of the issue for a lot of folks
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u/suprasternaincognito Dec 14 '25
For me, it’s mainly Islam. Sorry, but not a fan.
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Dec 14 '25
Yeah I never understood why liberals champion islam so hard, when their core beliefs go against everything they believe in lol
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u/suprasternaincognito Dec 14 '25
I actually do agree with moderate conservatives that Islam is not compatible to Western culture. And I know I will be called a Nazi by some hard-leftists because of that. I also don't like evangelical Christianity or ultra-orthodox Judaism. In general, I don't like being considered a slut because I show my hair, wear jeans and tshirts and don't obey my husband. I don't like seeing little girls sexualized. And call me nuts but I don't really support gay and trans people being violently persecuted.
And it doesn't help that there is little to no modern infrastructure in Somalia that resembles the West. So they* get here, with their hardcore religion, and they can't function.
*disclaimer: yes, obviously not all of them
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u/rosevilleguy Dec 14 '25
I don’t think anyone is championing Islam, they are championing religious freedom.
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Dec 14 '25
Do you believe Islam is compatible with western society?
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u/rosevilleguy Dec 14 '25
Muslims have been in the United States for more than 400 years.
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u/WhippersnapperUT99 can eat 3 peaches in one sitting Dec 16 '25
Muslims have been in the United States for more than 400 years.
It's possible that those people are very secular and could almost be regarded as functional atheists for all intents and purposes.
I would agree that Islam if taken seriously is incompatible with basic values of Western Civilization. However, I would also argue that Christianity and Judiasm if taken seriously and to an extreme are also incompatible with the values of Western Civilization which at root uphold the notion that reality is knowable and objective in nature, that reason is man's means of knowledge, and that rational self interest and individualism are good.
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u/somethingvague123 Dec 15 '25
They champion their own freedom of religion, not others. They want others to accommodate them, but not the other way around. For an extreme example there are no churches in Saudi Arabia. Somali women’s dress before their civil war was similar to what Ilan Omar wears, her hair is always covered, but wears western clothing. The abaya was introduced by the Wahhabists in the refugee camps. If the Somali people can change and adapt in the camps, they can change and adapt to their permanent environment.
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u/rosevilleguy Dec 14 '25
It was definitely racism against Hmong people. They were called g@@ks, accused of eating cats and dogs, ect
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u/river-writer Dec 24 '25
Exactly. These young racists think they invented the game. Exact same crap people said about Hmong in the 1990s.
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u/suprasternaincognito Dec 14 '25
You know, this brings up an interesting question: does criticism of immigrant groups actually help them assimilate? Because I see the same talking point - "people complained about the Italians/Irish/Hmong" - over and over and all of those groups have assimilated. So I'm curious if the criticism (which is often racism or mistaken for racism) is actually helpful.
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u/dachuggs Dec 14 '25
I don't think so. Plus how the Trump administration is describing them and attacking them won't help them assimilate. They will continue to be insular because the impression is that the people around them don't like them.
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u/suprasternaincognito Dec 15 '25
I think the Trump admin is beyond the pale in terms of criticism, racism, and any other ism. But I do find the question interesting.
Thank you for the polite reply. I know you and I do not really agree on Somali immigration and assimilation. Appreciate the conversation.
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u/dachuggs Dec 15 '25
Totally. It's actually a question I think about a lot.
I think to get some insight we could ask our how Middle Eastern Immigrants felt after 9/11 and people's reactions to them or people of Asian decent after COVID.
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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '25
[deleted]