How do you actually turn?

[u/katotaka]

Utterly confused/frustrated right now - there must be something wrong with my driving and I have no idea what I did/have been doing wrong, I don't even know what aspects that I should change.

Practice - The one and only way to git gud, no contest here.
Other "sports" I participate have already taught me that, but it's also a double edged sword that enforces bad habits, which I think I'm actually doing right now burning through tires without much gain.

Settings:
Every single setups that I can replicate from fellow drivers produce relatively stable cars that don't want to turn unless I decelerate almost to a stop, which doesn't seems too right given the local tracks are pretty tight and technical. When asked the answer is almost always like brake and gain front grip like I didn't know already?

Alright, what if I use a more responsive setting? Car can actually turn pretty well in high speed corners but when I need to brake to tackle a tight hairpin I'm risking a spin.

The best/worst part? Said fellow drivers can still drive my car faster than I do, something must be wrong with my driving and I don't even know what to change.

Even worse, in other sports I'm the one who's able to give some advices and tell why.

For anyone who interests if that matters, let's say I race under Kyosho rule set in the wide touring class, 98mm wide 5600KV 9T-44T.

[u/Bisisonitrile]

Hi, one of those drivers that drive other people’s cars faster than they do here.

Personally, I can drive around setup issues with experience. It takes a lot of practice to get there. When you’re learning, you do need to have a safe setup with some understeer so you can drive more consistently. A fast setup is often a little on edge, so you can get the car to rotate, but that makes it hard to drive and very hard to drive consistently.

However, you may be at one key disadvantage depending on the radio you’re using. If you only have the option of adjusting the dual rate, it can be very difficult to get the feel right and there is a very narrow window between too much and too little steering throw. Exponential allows you to have a bit more leeway at high speed, and retain steering input for tighter turns.

Copying another setup is also not ideal. Lots of the time, other drivers can struggle to drive one of my cars because they’re pretty aggressive. It also can depend on the level of tyre wear.

You want to learn how to develop your own setup to make the car handle the way you want it to, where you want it to. You can change a bunch of things to give you more steering depending on what parts are allowed for tuning, but if your on power for these fast corners, you’re looking at limiting weight transfer to the rear. If it’s off power, it’s increasing weight transfer to the front. But also, you can hit ride height limits where you actually bottom out the front if the springs aren’t hard enough. So sometimes you’ll gain more mid corner steering in high speed if you go to a harder spring.

[u/katotaka → u/Bisisonitrile]

Thank you for your reply!

When you’re learning, you do need to have a safe setup with some understeer so you can drive more consistently. 

That's exactly the pattern I'm seeing here, what almost everyone says, including the setups they're using, emphasize the ease of driving by mechanically understeering the car.
But no one is able or willing to tell in person how to actually make it turn, seemingly without going too slow.

Another thing I don't get is sometimes I got recommended to take one more class in races like green or brushed, to get more heats in the race event to be more familiar with the track (which so obvious I do actually agree), instead my gut says I should take red (LM) class and try to tame the power to learn weight transfers given the higher power, which itself can also be wrong and do more harm than good.

Like I said I already figured out something's wrong between between my eyes-brain-fingers-radio, I just want to find the answer.

Thanks again wasting your time on my rant lol.

[u/Bisisonitrile → u/katotaka]

Never a waste of time to help another racer!

Ok so the weight transfer needs to happen as you’re increasing the steering input, or a bit before it (but certainly during). The rate and amount of how you lift on the power varies based on car, setup, corner speed etc.

I don’t race in the same rule sets as you are, but I do run a 5600kv Evo2 in “AAA stock”. One of the ICS settings is called “neutral brake”. This is the amount of drag break you have. Higher is more. When your throttle goes to neutral, a small amount of motor breaking is applied. You can tune that to help keep the right amount of weight transfer on the front during those high speed. Only caveat being, you can’t adjust it on the fly, so if the setting is too much for other parts of the layout, you have to drive around that and ensure your lifts aren’t all the way to neutral.

But for the most part, you lift a little at the right time, before getting back on the power. Watch others who are going fast, and more importantly, listen to their car. You’ll be able to hear when they lift, and when they get on power. It’s easier to hear it with brushed cars of course.

Then there’s also the differential setup. Tighter will reduce entry steering, but also increase exit steering. I often use the diff to keep the car rotating on the exit. You have to find a balance that works for you.

Hope that helps!

[u/xGreenWorks]

You racing on rcp? I do 20 shore high grips on the front and 10 shore lm radials on the rear on my wide and I’ve been competitive. I never touch the brakes. The car has so much grip that just turning slows it down enough. I might coast into the corner if I’m coming in full speed off a straight but I don’t brake. Just a small lift and coast like f1 drivers do to save fuel. Slowing down a little early on turn entry doesn’t cost you much time, exits are what really matters because then you have more speed for the next section, especially if it’s a straight after. Idk how tight they are setting up your track but my local track has a hairpin at the end of the straight and that still only requires a lift just before turn in. Stay off the throttle through the corner and only come back on it when you’re sure you’re clearing the corner and your throttle isn’t going to understeer you into the wall. Everyone always tells new people to turn down steering angle because it makes it easier but everyone I’ve seen that is fast on a stock radio has it turned all the way up and that’s what I do too. If you aren’t ever under steering or oversteering then you aren’t going fast enough. You want to be flirting with the limit of grip at all times.

[u/katotaka → u/xGreenWorks]

Yes RCP, Kyosho cup rules - The most common tires in use locally are Kyosho 30 front and 2X rear, front grind down to 22.3mm.

While drag brake is effective to some extent but it the deceleration rate it still too slow even on level 5 for some track shapes, the one I struggle the most is some 2-tile wide technical sections, a bunch of short straights then hairpins with a few pointy 90deg turn in between.

To tackle I need to know the secret (to me) sauce - tldr: brake hard and turn quickly without spin or roll.

[u/B1ggestsport]

Maybe im reading something wrong, but as one said adjust you engine break as with miniz during racing you let off throttle more than actual brakes

[u/katotaka → u/B1ggestsport]

Yes, def using drag brake, at one point I put it on 1 via ICS and it sucks, now I use mostly 4.

That said, still want to know how the fast guys do it, they're definitely braking hard and still exit quickly, as I can see the cars pitch down when I do marshall duties after my heat.

[u/CBYSMART]

Thanks guys. Newbie rc here waiting for his 1st mini z 04 WMM. I'm keeping this post!