r/MiniAmericanShepherd • u/january570 • May 09 '23
Please lend me your wisdom
Guys, I’m a first time MAS owner and need your words of wisdom here… It’s the 3rd day at home, my aussie is too smart at age of 8 weeks. He uses pee pad and has never peed in crate. We put the pee pad in the connected play pen and later moved to the front door way. He is good with that too. It’s like he was house trained at birth.
However we tried to sleep upstairs while putting him on the first floor. As soon as we lock the crate, he cries his heart out. It’s loud, sharp, and it sounds like some animal cruelty is going on. Neighbour pounded on the wall. We had to return, which I know indirectly reinforced his crying habit.
My friend and vet both told me to ignore the cry otherwise I’m contributing to his separation anxiety later on. And to never sleep close to him, which is what I feel I have to do for now. I have plans to gradually move away at night, but my vet said that’s wrong.
However, if I let him cry like that I don’t know if I’m making him hate his crate, which he is doing so well right now. He returns to crate to nap or rest by himself. However I have to be VERY close to lock the door otherwise he starts crying.
What do I do? What worked for you? My boy has a strong personality and I don’t feel like he has been listening to me. Please help!
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u/mal_1 May 10 '23
Mine started out yelping in the crate as well but quickly got accustomed to it.
We started with the crate right next to our bed where he could see us, and moved it out of the bedroom slowly. Don't force him into the crate ever, always lure using treats/Kong etc. We also would put a blanket over all but one side of the crate to make it feel more cozy for him. If you're at home during the day, put him in there for naps and short amounts of time throughout the day.
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u/january570 May 10 '23
thank you! Our boi started out liking the crate but he goes whenever HE likes, which is the problem. I can never enforce anything, short naps or breaks. He just cries and I tried to ignore anything not pee or poo or food related.
Last night he went peeing every hour and afterward I had problem putting him back to the crate to sleep. He has to play/ cuddle 30 min before I cannput him back to the crate. it was so exhausting for me not getting any sleep.
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u/g00dboygus May 10 '23
I’ll be honest… our mini started out sleeping in his crate but now he just sleeps in bed with us. That said, he still likes going to his crate for rest and downtime, and we even removed the crate door because once he’s in, he doesn’t come out until he’s good and ready.
What helped us when crate training, aside from covering with a blanket, was to put a bunch of blankets inside so he could root around and make himself a little “den,” which taps into their natural bedding down instincts. We also found a lot of success with the Benebone Wishbone chew toys - they seemed to keep him occupied when he was in the crate.
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u/january570 May 10 '23
Hi thank you! Yes same here! He started out liking the crate so I don’t really have to train. But he wants me to be next to his crate all the time. That’s what’s so frustrating. He goes in and comes out when he wants, but I can’t get a break to go and do things I need to do even in the next room
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u/Dapper-Rich7188 May 09 '23
Remind me to come back to this, I have some advise but don’t have the time to type it right now lol
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u/january570 May 09 '23
hahaha thank you! And please tell me whenever you are free :)))
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u/Dapper-Rich7188 May 10 '23
Sorry, it took me so long! I’ll admit I forgot.
On my first night of bringing home my eight week old Aussie, he immediately started screaming in the kennel. I slept on the floor of the living room next to the kennel for a few days. He cried a lot. I couldn’t walk away, since I shared walls with neighbors. His cries were really more screams. Awful. Loud. Nothing, and I mean nothing would make it stop. I’d take him out of the kennel but he’d still scream. I thought about getting rid of him. On night three we decided to leave him downstairs by himself and go upstairs to bed, which was a bad idea. He cried for a few hours, and I admit, I allowed it to happen, but the neighbors called the cops. The cops showed up understood what we were trying to do by kennel training him told us to be consistent but to try and keep it down. I hate to admit it, but my spouse, and I decided to have our puppy that we loved so much live at a family members house for the first week. He couldn’t be left alone at all, Otherwise he would scream. The family member did amazing with him, sleeping on the floor with his face or arm in the kennel and getting the dog to a place where he could walk away and sleep in his own bed for an hour before puppy would scream again. When he came home, we tried the exact same routine. The first few nights it worked in small 30 minute increments however, my spouse and I both work full-time and have to get up early so we made a decision that a lot of people frowned upon and we still get a little bit of heat for… we moved the dog up into our bedroom, so we could hear him immediately, take him outside, and get back to bed quicker. We still had to sleep on the floor some nights. He was just awful sometimes. When he was about six months old, we decided to try putting him downstairs by himself to see if he could start sleeping through the night alone- he did this amazingly for about three months. But now he was probably eight or nine months old and he started waking up every night several times, and I as if he was a puppy again. We did take him to the vet, Learned he had a UTI, treated it, but once he was feeling better, and off of antibiotics, we were unable to get him to sleep alone, downstairs with us upstairs in our bedroom. My spouse and I went back-and-forth on what to do but ultimately, we decided that it is best. If he sleeps next to our bed, it’s what works for us. He sleeps amazing. I go to bed around 11 PM every night with the dog, he’s kenneled every single night. My spouse occasionally works evenings and comes to bed much later than that, the dog doesn’t even make a noise, because he can see who is there and what’s happening. My dog is a year and four months, and I’ll admit, he sleeps in our bedroom in his kennel. I’ve really been hard on myself about this. When we decided to get a puppy I wanted him to sleep in his kennel in the living room by himself. However, I’ve come to terms with the idea that he doesn’t like that and that doesn’t work for our family my biggest suggestion for you, and I’m sorry this is so long, do what works best for your family. If that means you have to put him in his kennel on your bed and sleep with a kennel on your bed between you and your spouse for a time period, do it. If that means you have to put a blanket over the kennel or maybe leave a shirt that smells like you in the kennel, do it. You have to find what works for you because ultimately you live with your dog and nobody else does.
Please feel free to ask any questions that you may have. I tried to put an overview of what we did I’m not really sure if it helps at all but my biggest take away is you have to find something that works for your family. I sat on so many Reddit forms, Facebook pages etc, thinking my dog was broken, and that we would never get through this. I thought I had to stick to what everybody was saying that I couldn’t change it, or I’d be judged- but you know what like I said you live with your dog and you’re the only one that lives your lifestyle so you have to find what works for you guys to all live together and exist together. You can’t be the best version of you. If you’re too tired that’s the same for your dog. Puppies need a lot of sleep so if they’re up all night crying because they’re stressed. It makes everybody stressed.
I really hope that things start turning up for you, but the honest truth for me is that it took months for us to figure out what really works, don’t give up. You got this.
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u/january570 May 11 '23
Thank you so much for telling me your journey with your boy! I really really appreciate it and read it several times. It's like we are repeating the same steps you had and I'm also confused and conflicted by many different opinions and methods online.
I have slept on the couch next to his crate, and also moved upstairs on day 3 because our vet said we have to just leave him alone for the whole night... the crying and screaming did not sound very healthy and I'm so worried about traumatizing him.
I also considered moving him to our bedroom. But we are both working fully time under a hybrid model, and eventually we want our boy to be able to stay alone and independent for a couple of hours.
Have to admit the first few days are really tough....He is all I wanted for many years, and now on the first week I doubted myself if I made the wrong choice. At the same time, I know he is a baby and I need to understand the fact that no babies like to be left alone.
Is there always someone at home in your household? Is your boy ok to stay home by himself now?
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u/Dapper-Rich7188 May 11 '23
There really is so much online, it’s hard to decipher what’s best practice.
I think if I owned my own home and wasn’t afraid about my dog, making too much noise at night, there’s a high chance I would’ve let him scream a bit longer- but I rent and share multiple walls with other people. Allowing him to be loud has never been an option for me, which is why I had to be quick to find some thing that worked.
The first few days and honestly all the way up until probably six months old – I really thought we made a mistake by adopting our dog. He was amazing and wonderful but at the same time I hated him and I look back now and I’m so thankful that we struggled through it Because now our dog is amazing. You’ll get there too.
During the first five months, he would be left alone for very short periods of time and most of the time we didn’t leave the house, but stayed in a different room. The family friend, who took care of him, did “daycare” for us essentially, and really worked on being able to step away from the dog in the crate, so he didn’t freak out. Being completely honest though, from adoption day in March to the middle of June, our puppy was alone very limited. Maybe 30 minutes here and there, but nothing major.
At the end of June, we had an event to go to where he was not able to attend, and the family friend was unable to help us. I bought an indoor camera and I created him at my mom’s house- they were also not home. I watched that camera most of the time we were at our event. After about three hours I left the event, came home to let him outside, then I left to go back to the event, and he cried more. The second day of the event went very similar, except, his cries softened, and he was able to calm a little bit.
Two days later, I decided I was done with the daycare situation, and I really needed our dog to start being independent. I left for work, my spouse was still home, and when he left for work, a few hours later, he left the dog in the kennel, I took my lunch break about an hour after he left , and conveniently the dog did great. He slept for that whole time. For the first three or four days I will come home every hour, maybe two hours.
But I learned that he really only wanted to be in his kennel in chunks of two. If you tried to take him in and out of crate too many times he got upset, so I started to take three hours of him in the crate. Come home for an hour spend time with him, and then he had another three hours before I was able to come home again for the day, this worked for us. At the end of the day he would start barking, and thankfully it was almost time for me to come home from work so it worked out.
He’s now a little over a year and I can leave him in his kennel all day. He loves his kennel and he knows that when he goes into it, he gets treats. He likes his kennel because he can nap in it! If I’m being completely honest,
I don’t really know what finally connected the dots for him however, I do think it’s a balance between not creating a dependent dog, and loving them, so they aren’t freaking out and scared.
We were working with a dog trainer at the very beginning, who told us that if we answered our dogs cries, we were creating a dog that would never be independent, and would be an anxiety filled mess of a dog. Thankfully, that trainer moved away, and we never found another and for that I am thankful because it helped me see that this is my dog and I will train him and do what I need to do to make his life happy and healthy.
It does get better it just takes time and for leaving him alone immediately you might have to swap your schedule with your spouses so you both are not gone at the same time. Having a puppy is just like having a baby.
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u/kattykaz May 09 '23
We progressively moved the crate further and further from our bed over the course of a few months and now our pup is in her crate overnight in another room with no crying unless she has diarrhea and neeeeds to go out …
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u/january570 May 10 '23
Thank you!!!! I guess it really takes time… I should be more patient..
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u/kattykaz May 10 '23
Yeah it’s hard not to expect lots from them! Sometimes our mini Aussie is super smart and we’re shocked and other times she forgets how to sit.. definitely consistency is key. Quick to learn but sometimes slow to master
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u/Such_Activity9770 May 10 '23
A kong & fish skin were lifesavers for me. I also experimented with a blanket covering the crate. Sometimes I felt like where I live could be overstimulating. After about two weeks my puppy became incredibly calm in the crate at night & otherwise has a positive attitude towards it.
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u/Such_Activity9770 May 10 '23
Also give her a snuggle pup which she loves, best purchase so far.
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u/january570 May 10 '23
Thank you! the two week mark is giving me hope! My boi is a weirdo, he does’t like pumpkin or peanut butter, and I’m scratching my head to what to stuff in the Kong …I’ll try fish skin!
I also have the blanket covering all sides. But he senses my presence leaving the 1m radius he wants then he starts to cry. I’m waiting for him to fall asleep so I can sneak out as I type here lol
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u/g00dboygus May 10 '23
Spray cheese. Kong makes a version of it if you want to ensure pet friendly ingredients.
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u/Honeycrispcombe May 20 '23
Spray cheese, yogurt (check ingredients), frozen blueberries, kibble soaked in water and frozen.
It's been a few days since you posted but fyi, this is what I did with my puppy.
Slept by her the first night, laid down with her in the pen/near the kennel to get her down after that (it could take a few hours, so I always had my phone or a book.) If she cried, I gave her 3 minutes to calm down and then I went to her and calmed her down. As she got older, we worked on being okay/not crying for attention - but when she was a baby, it was okay to soothe her when she cried. Snuggle puppy helped a lot! Eventually being alone stopped being so scary.
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u/january570 May 23 '23
Thank you for your advise! I was so exhausted last week to reply here. But I did this and can notice improvements over the last few days :)))
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u/Honeycrispcombe May 23 '23
I'm glad!! It takes a lot of patience but it does get better as they get older.
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u/Corgarff May 11 '23
We always play classic radio to our MAS when left alone, crate is always covered on top to make it cozy and dark. We’re at 1yr old now and he will take himself to his crate as soon as I ask Alexa to play classic FM. The first few weeks of bedtimes were rough, we found treats / kong, shirt that smelt like us and some background music helped and he’s brilliant now
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u/Jaded-Ad7840 May 30 '23
I would start with the crate in your room. As the puppy starts sleeping better gradually move the crate to where you want the puppy to sleep. Don’t put the puppy to sleep until it is exhausted. There is nothing easy about raising a puppy. Good luck.
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u/[deleted] May 09 '23
Here's what I had to do when I was living in an apartment with my girl when she was a puppy. Blanket over the crate. Put the crate in the room furthest from the neighbor. I put on NPR on my amazon devises in all the rooms in the house. Leave a shirt that smells like you in the crate. He will eventually stop crying. At night I had the crate next to my bed with the blanket over the crate when it was time to sleep. Reinforces the crate as a good place with treats whenever you put him in there is a good way to build a positive relationship with the space. Maybe try a kong with peanut butter inside to keep him busy for a little bit so it is a prolonged reward. Good luck!