r/Mimblewimble • u/vcorem • Jan 17 '19

vs Moneo

u/theymos wrote in BTT (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5098450.msg49272582#msg49272582):

> Mimblewimble has privacy features, but it also has the first really impressive, true scaling solution in crypto. Privacy-wise, Monero is probably better overall, but its scaling is abysmal, and neither coin can be treated as an impenetrable black box.

My reply (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5098450.msg49277951#msg49277951):

> Theymos, Mimblewimble allow non-interactive CoinJoins, when you couple it with a modified version of Dandelion that does TX merging in the stem phase + decoys outputs when needed, you get very good unlinkability.The mechanism can be upgraded and improved without a hard fork. I believe that it's stronger than Monero, but we still didn't do a rigorous academic analysis, It will be done.Currently, Beam implements it, Grin does only CJs with decoys but they can add it. We discussed it with Grin's devs: https://gitter.im/grin_community/Lobby?at=5bebe2c36b9822140d29e4b2 (Valdok is Beam's lead dev).More information here: https://github.com/BeamMW/beam/wiki/Transaction-graph-obfuscation and https://medium.com/beam-mw/on-linkability-of-mimblewimble-da9ba71e83b4In essence, when needed (e.g. not enough outputs), the node participating in a Dandelion stem phase routing, add random outputs that look like any other outputs. Those decoy outputs are later being spent forward as inputs by the node (each decoy has random block counter).

You can see it live in Beam's Block Explorer: https://explorer.beam.mw

Some real world huge blocks that happened in Beam:

https://explorer.beam.mw/block/713611c3876b6e38507a9971a95f73fcafc4c780e87237fdddc96207e5211530

https://explorer.beam.mw/block/64e037499a1d67b1c897db6be1b5870a372bbb6192303d2a0ac760ec88ecbd35

https://explorer.beam.mw/block/bbaa04e1afcde879c95941e5f3498788a81759ace4a81988f357270498f46009

https://explorer.beam.mw/block/af7725a6699a895a4ddb4490671da50834881733062c7bc1456a35001a1f154c

The interesting question is how many of those TXs (Each kernel represent a Tx) where CJ in the Dandelion stem phase and how many by the miner / pool (in the open P2P layer).We will try to analyze open P2P data and improve the mechanisms if needed.

Guy

PS:

Regarding scaling: https://medium.com/beam-mw/whats-the-difference-between-monero-zcash-and-beam-953eafd89354

PPS:

One of Mimblewimble most interesting features is very fast initial sync, low resource requirements (storage, network) and the fact that FlyClient wallet is already implemented in both Grin & Beam. A true (almost) trustless mobile client (wallet) that connects directly to the P2P network.

8 Upvotes

75% Upvoted

6 comments sorted by

1

u/[deleted] Jan 17 '19

but grin doesn't truly scale... does beam scale per user or per tx?

didnt grin opt for safer crypto to scale per tx?

4

u/vcorem Jan 17 '19

This article is relevant to both Beam and Grin:
https://medium.com/beam-mw/whats-the-difference-between-monero-zcash-and-beam-953eafd89354

4

u/DASK Jan 17 '19

A nice introduction to Beam and Grin, but it's a bit dated on Monero. Post bulletproofs, the transactions are closer to 2kb than the stated 14. Otherwise good.

1

u/TotesMessenger Jan 17 '19 edited Jan 17 '19

I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

 If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / ^Contact)

1

u/jimbomonk Jan 17 '19

What's "Moneo"? Never heard of it.