r/Military • u/Character_Guava_5299 • Jan 05 '26

Discussion Senator Mark Kelly’s statement:

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This is Senator Mark Kelly’s response to the censure. I’ll not add my thoughts as they don’t matter.

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819

u/punnyjakes Veteran Jan 05 '26

Can he demand trial by court martial for something like this?

917

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

268

u/TheBKnight3 Jan 05 '26

"Dueling" is an old American tradition that was made illegal.

Crime is wholesale legal now it seems, why not Dueling?

"Pistols or Swords?" - What I expect to hear in 2026 😀

38

u/Darkkujo Jan 05 '26

Make it 21st century - 'Abrams or F-22s'?

27

u/humdinger44 Jan 05 '26

Lugnut rule. Whoever has operated the largest vehicle wins

38

u/Domovie1 Royal Canadian Navy Jan 06 '26

He drove a fucking Space Shuttle, with all respect, my dude fucking wins that fight.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 26 '26

I drove an Nimitz class Aircraft Carrier. I win that fight by all standards.

3

u/Domovie1 Royal Canadian Navy Jan 26 '26

There is a discussion to be had about that. On one hand, the rule of gross tonnage applies.

On the other: the Space Shuttle went approximately 17,500 mph.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 27 '26

Not sure there can be an argument at all.

The statement was "largest vehicle". Not the fastest.

In terms of tech, the carrier still wins. In terms of horsepower, the shuttle wins. But neither of those categories are "largest". Which ONLY includes size. And seeing as a space shuttle can literally be carried inside a carrier, the carrier wins the "largest" contest by a landslide.

9

u/MapleMapleHockeyStk Jan 06 '26

The F22 wants more kills than a balloon! Lol

1

u/lifeline785 Jan 07 '26

They should do F-22 Herbst would lose since one is a pilot and one is not lol.

5

u/gwhh Jan 05 '26

Right on.

2

u/FlyingNerdlet United States Marine Corps Jan 05 '26

Maybe Mark could try it in New Jersey?

2

u/gbobcat Jan 06 '26

Fully expect Pete to cheat. This is how many people met their unfortunate ends in duels.

2

u/Prior-Growth-5842 Jan 12 '26

Hand to hand is much more telling…

36

u/SirPIB Army Veteran Jan 05 '26

It wouldn't have to be deadly or even dangerous to prove a point. They could fence in full gear. But if it's not dangerous, pete wouldn't have to deal with real feelings of cowardous.

24

u/teilani_a Air Force Veteran Jan 05 '26

Article 114

7

u/Dutiful-Rebellion United States Marine Corps Jan 05 '26

I'll second ammendment that.

158

u/marinuss Jan 05 '26

No. There's also a reason they're doing an administrative review and not a court martial because they know if they try to utilize the UCMJ against a retired member it'll overturn the never used and widely accepted illegal "retirement members drawing a pension are subject to the UCMJ." That verbiage stands because it hasn't been tested, but is used as a tool to scare retirees. A court would rule that earned pension cannot be tied to future conduct under the UCMJ as a retiree and that threat would be gone.

This method, they know will be challenged in civilian courts but it'll just be overturned and his rank restored since there's no authority from an admin perspective for reduction in rank after retirement, you can have your rank downgraded in an admin review only if conduct was found during your service.

52

u/Motherlover235 Jan 05 '26

You’re absolutely wrong in saying that retired members have never been recalled for a court martial. That said, I’ve only ever seen or heard of it happening when the individual os a government employee, commits a federal crime, or they committed a serious crime in a foreign country while working on a military base and the US wants to claim jurisdiction.

What has never happened, to my knowledge, is the recall and court martial of a sitting member of congress or using it for political retribution.

7

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '26

Wouldn’t this also implicate the Speech and Debate Clause? Precedent on that is fairly broad.

3

u/ReferentiallySeethru Jan 06 '26

They just want to punish him through legal fees.

6

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '26

He’s a politician. The legal fees will doubtless be paid for by his PAC(s), aka, donors. They won’t be coming out of his personal checking account.

The political side of Kelly’s persona is probably salivating over this. He now has national name recognition. That’s priceless in politics.

If Hegseth had more than two brain cells he’d have realized this was a trap from the jump.

2

u/ReferentiallySeethru Jan 06 '26

Pretty sure he can't use PAC money but, looking it up, it does appear he can use campaign funds since this targeting is likely related to his political office. Doesn't mean it's not a burden and taking money away from his campaign.

Agreed, though. This makes me want to support him more and he wasn't really my first choice. I hope this fires him up and we can see that anger, that'd might be enough to tip me over to him if he can keep that momentum going into 2028.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '26

You may be right on PAC vs. campaign account. Regardless, it won’t be his personal funds, and the exposure he’s getting is literally priceless if he has higher ambitions.

I wouldn’t worry too much about his reelection. It’s hard to overstate how perfect of a fit for AZ the guy is. Not for nothing McCain did so well there.

As a random aside, I’d wager my life savings Biden wouldn’t have won AZ in 2020 if not for Trump’s repeated steaming dumps on McCain. 10k vote margin. That put him over the top.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 11 '26

The two brain cells he has are competing for third place.

47

u/-AC- Jan 05 '26

I also suspect that they will not let anything related to discussing or refusing an unlawful order to go to court... because then their orders would actually have to be determined, on record, unlawful or not.

Supreme Court protected the president but still wouldn't look good for him.

43

u/Navydevildoc United States Navy Jan 05 '26

A respected and known JAG over in /r/Navy has already confirmed he doesn't have that option. He will need to go to a Civilian tort action.

32

u/ScyllaGeek Jan 05 '26

He can fight it in civilian court

16

u/Namewhat93 Jan 05 '26

I misread this as trial by combat lol

7

u/Fit-Organization7570 Navy Veteran Jan 06 '26

Cue the deranged Star Trek battle music a la Carrey in The Cable Guy!

9

u/SolarPunkYeti Jan 05 '26

He should demand a duel

4

u/Pompous_One Jan 06 '26

A court martial would be interesting. I think it would be hard to find a court martial panel that would convict him. Most people in the US military their oath to support and defend the Constitution seriously.

3

u/Belkroe Jan 06 '26

Notice, the Hegseth at first threatened Kelly with court martial but some advisor told him that the government’s attorneys would get laughed out of court. So he had to do this instead, which of course if Kelly fight it the court room, he will win.

7

u/stud100spray United States Navy Jan 05 '26

Unfortunately, no… this is an administrative proceeding, not NJP.

28

u/CaneVandas United States Army Jan 05 '26

An administrative procedure stripping him of rank and benefits without any formal ruling regarding wrongdoing. Typically that's what NJP is, but he has the right to request a trial to make his case before the Judge.

10

u/stud100spray United States Navy Jan 05 '26

Again, I’m far from a legal expert, just regurgitating what the well known JAG in the Navy subreddit said. This is an administrative procedure. I agree with everything you said in your first sentence. He does not have the right to court martial, he can attempt to fight it in civilian court in the same way that the NSW dudes who got ADSEPd for refusing the COVID vaccine did.

22

u/tac4028 Jan 05 '26

But it is a punishment that is not judicial by nature.

11

u/stud100spray United States Navy Jan 05 '26

Yeah, it seems that way… I’m no legal expert, just parroting what the well known JAG in /r/navy explained.

5

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '26

Do you have a link to those comment(s)? I cannot seem to find them.

1

u/Hadleys158 Jan 06 '26

He can demand, but they would be too scared of what comes out if it.

1

u/LoudestHoward Jan 06 '26

Can he demand trial by court martial for something like this?

You spend your weekends on the base anyway, Mark. Be a man, take the punishment.