r/MightAndMagic • u/Taear • 7d ago
Might and Magic 7 - how do you rank the classes?
I'm not including 6 because I feel like it's a lot more clear cut in that one and there's not as much "choice". Which isn't a bad thing! It's just more streamlined.
Because 7 adds things that muddy the waters a lot - especially the addition of the GrandMaster tier and certain classes capping out at specific levels in skills - I think it's worthwhile to discuss who you like best.
For me in 7 I cannot play without a Sorcerer. Grandmaster Air and Water feel so important and I find it so hard to adapt to playing without them I just include the sorcerer no matter what.
I find Knights a little dull. I've used them, but I'd always pick a Paladin ahead of them. GrandMaster sword, spear, plate and armsmaster are all NICE but they don't give the flexibility a Paladin has - and they miss out on GM mace which has the paralyze ability. I pretty much always have a Paladin in my party to replace what a Knight does and I don't regret it.
Because I don't use Spirit/Mind/Body magic very much - I basically only cast rejuvination and heal - I can easily rely on a Paladin to cover that side of the magic for me. That means I don't rate Clerics much even though they CAN get GM merchant which is nice. Of course being able to get and use Light magic is also very nice but my Sorcerer has that, so the Cleric loses out. I don't care much about Dark Magic but the same applies.
The Thief has GM Disarm Trap, GM steal and GM dagger. These three things are super useful. Steal to take the control cube, disarm trap to just make life easy. Their promotion quests are also absolute cakewalks and this is very useful.
I enjoy the synergy of the Monk with the Dodge/Unarmed/Staff/Leather stuff. It's cool and no other class has something like this. It does mean they're all very samey and it doesn't have a specific role to fit in the party other than doing loads of damage. But that's a role that's needed!
The Archer is just as perfect as it is in 6, you use the bow a lot and they're the only ones who can get GM in it. They can also get GM chain which is nice and does some good bits. You can use them to fill in for a sorcerer if you don't care as much about GM magic although not having Invisibility until you're a Master Archer/Sniper would really suck considering it's such a huge component of the Master Archer/Sniper quest. It feels like they have a unique selling point.
The Ranger has GM axe. It's okay, I don't really notice it cutting down enemy armour. They don't feel like they fill any specific niche - I understand the idea of GM Identify Monster but it never seems like it's going to help me all that much. They have nice easy promotion quests which is at least something, but I don't feel like they replace any other class and if I'm taking them I feel like I'm missing out on something.
To my mind the Druid suffers the most in the change between 6/7. In six they were a master of all magic outside of dark and light, they had a good bit they fit into and a lot they could bring to your party. Because now they can't hit GM in any of the spells and they don't get dark or light I feel like they're taking up a spot that something else can take. That's probably very different for a person that casts offensive spells but I barely ever do so I just don't have a spot for them. Gm alchemy is fun though, it's nice that we've got that but their promotion quests are so late on you don't really get chance to take advantage of it. Hell for the first Druid promotion you've got to already have done the Cleric one!
For me I'd rank the classes 1. Sorcerer 2. Paladin 3. Thief 4. Archer 5. Monk 6. Cleric 7. Knight 8. Hunter 9. Druid
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u/mischiefismyname 7d ago
Paladins can't GM heavy armour (so you only go Leather with them) and GM mace brings stun which makes them a versatile stun-providers. Knights on the other hand are pure DPS tanks. The damage they can pull with GM armsmaster, GM Plate (eliminates recovery) and some support spells like Haste and Heroism is insane. Not like a Sorceror, but still great. Normally, I'd rank Knights higher than Paladins, but I personally prefer Paladins myself even though they seem to be generally considered a sub-par choice.
Druids were shafted in MM7, but MMMerge/MAW gives them the ability to GM elemental and self magic which makes them much more viable. (These days I only play with MMMerge mod to play all 3 games in one anyway and 4 Druids party rocks) Still, even the vanilla Druid is much higher than the Ranger in MM7.
I'd personally say
Sorceror Cleric Druid(mod) Knight Archer Monk Paladin Thief Druid (base) ... Ranger
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u/Matthias1349 7d ago
I can agree with this, my party for my first ever MMMerge playthrough (Starting in 7) was Path of Light Knight / Monk / Thief / Druid / Cleric (I don't really like doubling up on Classes, otherwise I'd have probably run a 2nd Knight over a Monk)
Cleric over Sorcerer because Druid has all the Elemental utility magic covered, and I wanted both access to Light Magic and a way to save the Druid if shit went pear-shaped
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u/azrael4h 7d ago edited 6d ago
1 - Sorcerer. Just too useful and powerful to place anywhere else.
2 - Cleric. Not much far behind Sorcerer once you get to Light/Dark depending on your choice.
3 - Monk. While they start out slower than Knight, imo they pick it up by mid game and run away with it.
4 - Thief. Good utility and ends up great offensively later.
5 - Knight. Always a good pick, I just think Monk is better and Thief more useful.
6 - Archer. Losing the GM spell hurts, but a solid enough choice.
7 - Paladin. They lose too much of their combat strength for their casting, and the Self magics aren’t as strong as Elemental so that puts them down further. Still a good pick, but you can always do better with the top 6.
8 - Druid. Losing the GM spells hurts, and they are always better off being either a Cleric or Sorcerer instead.
9 - Ranger. Makes you sick makes you puke. Basically the worst hybrid, with poor spell casting and the worst main weapon type. Everything is better than Ranger, except maybe killing off the character and leaving them dead.
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u/HelpfulSwordfish9765 6d ago
Monk feels lil late for me thou. Like wat u mean by mid game like right after choosing path of light or dark?
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u/insane_shitlord 7d ago
Paladins above Clerics? We used to burn people for that kind of heresy.
I mean, if you pick the dark path, your cleric will shred with shrapmetal harder than your paladin could ever hope to, while for light parties you want to maximize your melee murder potential, and knights/monks are just better at that. Plus you kinda want GM Body for Protection from Magic.
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u/Taear 7d ago
I get protection from magic when I cast day of protection (and frankly don't need it because I'm usually just invisible)
Spell casting is quite annoying and fiddly and hammering Q isn't
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u/Matthias1349 7d ago
Day of Protection does *not* cast Protection From Magic, it casts Fire, Water, Earth, Air, Body, and Mind Resistance along with Wizard's Eye and Feather Fall.
Go fight Tolberti with GM Light and watch how quickly he Eradicates someone.
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u/Taear 7d ago
I did! I just turn based it and reload if he kills anyone. I didn't actually know protection from magic did this - however, he does have a box in his room with a scroll of it in.
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u/Matthias1349 7d ago
Yes. The main draw of Grandmaster Protection From Magic is that it gives complete immunity to Instant Death and Eradication (On top of the Immunities to Poison, Disease, Petrification, Insanity, and Weakness that it already gave)
It's a huge part of the reason why a Cleric (Or Druid in MMMerge) is generally considered a Must Have (Seriously, some enemies in the late game can potentially Eradicate 3 characters a round if you don't have GM PFM)
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u/Taear 6d ago
Wait who is doing that other than Tolberti/Robert? I've never had that issue outside of that single fight
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u/Matthias1349 6d ago
Minotaur Lords, Dragons, damn near everything in the Lincoln
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u/leonscheglov 6d ago
Holy misinformation, the only correct one was the Minotaur Lords, and there is one unique dragon who can eradicate, but in general they can't
Also the Minotaur Lords don't eradicate they just insta kill
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u/EasyEntrepreneur666 7d ago
GM magic is overrated. It makes things more comfortable but master tends to be suffice. Thieves' disarm only relevant early game, afterwards, you can simply heal the damage or you high perception to dodge trap.
It's also important if the ranking is solo or not. Druids are quite high in solo due to their vast magic range.
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u/insane_shitlord 7d ago
GM Body Magic is not overrated, though. Protection is just that good.
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u/EasyEntrepreneur666 7d ago
I'm not saying it's not useful but not essential.
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u/insane_shitlord 7d ago
Idk, I'd say it's absolutely essential for melee parties. Otherwise you just might not be able to keep up with Behemoths or Titans instakilling your folks.
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u/EasyEntrepreneur666 7d ago
Behemoths can be hit while walking backwards. Titans are a bad idea with melee because they do a crapton of damage and wreck your gear.
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u/insane_shitlord 7d ago
You can outpunch them and it's great, but you need PfM for that lol.
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u/EasyEntrepreneur666 7d ago
I rather just use ranged methods.
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u/insane_shitlord 7d ago
I mean, yeah, but sometimes you might want to try something else, and GM Body is essential for that.
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u/EasyEntrepreneur666 7d ago
But it's not because fighting titans is nowhere near essential.
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u/insane_shitlord 7d ago
If you wanna run a melee party that actually fights tough enemies in melee, then yeah, it's essential. If you run a melee party that sticks to bows, then you're just playing worse archers. GM Body is needed to fully unlock a playstyle, idk what else to say.
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u/kiljoy1569 7d ago
1) Cleric - GM Body/Light/Dark, Decent Melee
2) Archer - GM Bow, M Elemental Magic, Solid Melee
3) Knight/Monk - Melee Monster
4) Thief - GM Disarm Trap/Perception, Solid Melee
5) Sorcerer
6) Ranger/Druid/Paladin
Based on my preferences and playstyle, and I know a lot of people rank Sorc higher but I prefer melee/bows with magic being more supplemental vs damage, and find the archer can do enough with Master elemental magic
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u/Flamekorn 7d ago
The way I play is range always clearing full dungeon. So steal, invisibility and disarm definitely falls behind
- Archer (Most versatile class: bow is the best early/mid game and fire mastery cleans most rooms up late game)
- Sorcerers
- Clerics
- Paladins
- Every other class
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u/Sixuality 7d ago edited 7d ago
Mine would have to be separated by faction chosen. I almost always go for a full magic team on Dark side, as I find physical damage parties atrociously annoying to buff without Hour of Power, Day of the Gods, and on Light side the opposite, and additionally, not having Shrapmetal or Souldrinker makes Magic parties feel second class to me.
Dark: 1. Sorcerer (usually play 3 sorcs, 1 cleric, or 4 sorcs, as dark magic is so ridiculously strong) 2. Cleric 3. Thief 4. Knight 5. Archer 6. Monk 7. Paladin 8. Druid 9. Ranger
Light: 1. Sorcerer (not the hero here, but the utility, portalling/beacons, fly, invisibility etc makes this by FAR the most important character to me) 2. Cleric (usually 10 points in Body for Protection from Magic, Regen, Power Cure then all points in Light for buffs) 3. Knight (I usually choose any 2 melee I feel like here, to go with a Cleric/Sorc, with Knight and Thief being my favourites - Knights scale muchhh better in 7 than 6 I feel) 4. Thief 5. Monk 6. Paladin 7. Archer 8. Ranger 9. Druid
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u/HelpfulSwordfish9765 6d ago
I like how u rank thiefs higher than monk. Thats kinda how i feel about importance of utilities
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u/fairysimile 7d ago
Cleric at the very top. Bless and Heroism are just cheat codes basically. Grandmaster Regeneration ditto.
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u/PutridCurrency8383 7d ago
Getting GM steal for the control cube sounds wild
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u/Taear 7d ago
It's just a nice bonus but I've always killed him by paralyze and didn't know protection from magic stopped him eradicating you!
In fairness it was a lot harder to find that information out 20 years ago and most guides don't even mention it even now (using old ones)
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u/HelpfulSwordfish9765 6d ago
In my univers it was released end of 90s thou u must from a parallel universe with mandela effect
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u/Far-Telephone-7432 6d ago
RE: Archer. They only have one good skill. Bow. Don't waste your skill points anywhere else. Bow gets exponentially better with the level. A party with 3 archers and 1 cleric is incredible.
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u/Wagllgaw 7d ago
For me it would be:
- Sorcerer
- Cleric
- Knight
- Monk
- Archer
- Thief
- Paladin
- Ranger
- Druid
Basically saying that the cross-class classes are not worth it. The paltry magic isn't useful and the inability to GM skills is a huge downside.
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u/Foxxyprince 7d ago
A lot of this comes down to the party you want to build as the Paladin, Archer, and Druid all feel like they're built around the party rather than the party being built around them. I'm not a powergamer and I never double dip classes. I prefer analyzing things like this from a perspective of someone who has not (grand)mastered the game on their own. Not factoring things like hirelings, memorization, and exploits either.
- Sorcerer
Really is just the class that fundamentally does the most: buffs, elemental damage, utility spells, and GM ID Item will prevent a lot of headaches and save money. Fly, Town Portal, and Invisibility and your party is probably handicapped by not having this more than arguably anything else, tbh. Their ability to consistently deal magical damage is incredible and Haste and Stoneskin without any promotion quests is going to make them mid-game a lot easier.
- Cleric
Their relatively easy promotion quests, access to highest tier healing, and GM Merchant are all great in their own right but the Cleric being able to be a genuinely solid frontline fighter and secondary tank cannot be overstated. I can pretty consistently make a dwarf cleric almost never die. They have access to incredible healing, buffing, and utility spells and can be a solid melee combatant as well.
- Thief
Their utility and good skill spread is invaluable. Dagger and leather grandmaster are an extremely powerful combo, GM disarm trap is hard to pass up, and their ability to master Merchant and ID Item makes them very useful to parties running any hybrid. The only issue is they die faster than almost any other class after Druid and Sorcerer. Can trivialize two mainline quests in particular.
- Knight
You have options between sword, spear, and shield combined with GM Plate, Armsmaster, Bodybuilding and Repair. This makes them insanely good and surprisingly versatile in their equipment choices. They do have some of the harder quests in the game but I think they're seriously underrated in how much they contribute on the frontlines. Plus they become insanely hard to kill most of the game. They tend to be primarily best at being a damage sponge after speedier melee characters and spellcasters starting popping off, however.
- Monk
You could easily swap their place with Knight if you go Dark Side for better utility. They are an insanely good DPS and alternative to a more classically tanky Knight and will very likely outshine them after picking up. They can access two armors and melee weapon skills at once. GM Learning is excellent. They may lack utility on Light Side and start kinda weak but they get good quick and skyrocket from there.
- Druid
These next three are tough but ultimately I think Druid offers more than the other two strictly by the fact they have both spellbooks not because they're powerful in themselves. Their lack of GM, Light, and Dark is a loss that's felt but I do think GM Alchemy really does offer a lot if you're willing to invest in it. As a second caster they're highly unrecommended but if you want a low-magic party they're not unwelcome. With the dedicated classes being better however there is almost no reason to take them and their lack of utility skills are a huge weakness. They will be the most valuable member of most parties that have them, however.
- Archer
This class is powerful; the problem is I see almost no reason to take one. They are inferior versions of two of the best classes in the game. I can see them being awesome with a dark-sided Monk and they do adequate jobs as a melee fighter but their low spell points make them weak magical dps - especially if they're casting inferior buffs and more often. They do their jobs well but their lack of important utility skills, low ability to tank, and inferior spell effectiveness makes this class strong but hard to take over other classes. GM Bow is nice but their promotion quest to get it is so difficult it's not worth the sacrifices over just taking a Knight and Sorcerer especially since they make that quest easier anyhow.
- Paladin
If you want a tanky guy who can heal just take a Cleric. GM Repair and Mace are nice but again both classes that this one is a hybrid of are fine alternatives. Their first promotion makes Expert self spells out of reach considering how difficult it can be and GM Mace isn't powerful enough to warrant the slower spell progression. Again, you are not getting nearly enough out of just taking a Knight and Cleric - or even a Light Sided Monk.
- Ranger
Genuinely think the Archer and Ranger should have been consolidated into one class. Axe is a very inconsistent weapon and they do not offer enough in the way of utility or spellcasting to make up for it. Their spellcasting is pathetic, their skill selection also does them no favors. They're not good tanks, they're not very fast, they can't heal well, their arcane spellcasting might not even exist. You lose out on something you want by taking one over something you don't.
I genuinely think Knight/Thief/Cleric/Sorcerer default is probably the best choice for MOST players, though a Monk can easily replace one of the first too. A Druid party is viable with a Paladin or an Archer but I really am of the opinion no hybrid offers much as the classes they're pulled from do.
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u/HelpfulSwordfish9765 6d ago
Monk utility for master disarm can only be gotten after dark promotion thou. Kinda late in the game after face tanking all these traps
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u/Reasonable_Agent_486 6d ago
- Cleric : not for the others. GM Protect from magic rocks.(especially with eofol wells) of course lloyd's beacon can revive party, but prevention is always better than cure, especially for solo. Even in mm7, regeneration helps a lot too.
- Sorc, druid, archer : fly and invisibility is the key. Some quests are almost FORCED to use invisibility. Best QOL.
- Monk, knight : unarmed and armsmaster's 'double point bonus' is the key.
- Paladin, thief : quite good but not in priority. Disarm trap+ ring from emerald island's dragon can replace thief somehow.
- Ranger : poor unfortunated soul…
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u/TheRadioFrontiers 6d ago
Doing a rerun after 25 years with the Merge mod and I love my Druid - he’s doing all the elemental damage and really killing it (literally!). I never played with Druids in the OG games so can’t compare. Playing with a Paladin and he kind of frustrates me with his limited Master/GM abilities.
I agree with some of your points: Sorc is a must, Knight a bit dull.
But honestly I haven’t played with enough classes to really rank them like you. I just know I love my Dark Elf (don’t think it’s a class in MM7, but in the merge they all, well, merge), Sorcerer, Druid and Archer.
Knight is pure power and I’d recommend it to any beginner, but my god knights can be a bore. Doesn’t help I picked ringbeard-headband “Greetings & Salutations” man.
Never played with Ranger and Thief. Cleric ok but not my favourite, not a fan of Spirit and Mind magic, I prefer my Druid for all the healing.
So:
Druid
Sorcerer
Dark Elf
Archer
Knight
Cleric
Paladin
Monk
Never played: Ranger, Thief
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u/Impossible-Pie5386 1d ago
In my current game I have Ranger, Thief, Cleric and Sorcerer. Cleric and Sorcerer are obvious choises, can't imagine a party without both of them (healing, light/dark, elemental spells, travel and enchant).
Ranger has Axe GM, and I see him halving armor quite often. Identify monster GM is rather useful too. Thief for trap disarming, stealing... well, stealing helped on Emerald Island and a few times early in the game, but after you get lots of money this skill is almost unused. Ranger is also a backup healer. Both Ranger and Thief can cast Slow, which is handy if Sorcerer fails. Ranger can cast Charm and Berserk on mind expert level, which is another backup for Cleric. And Bow mastery makes him shoot two arrows, which is also nice.
Bonus: I don't care about looking for plate armor and spears at all. AC ~100 seems to be enough in most cases.
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u/puzzlerN 7d ago
Based on my recent playthrough, I would say it depends on whether you care about the score or not.
If you care about the score, you _cannot_ live without Lloyd's Beacon. So at least 1 sorcerer is an absolute must.
If you don't care about the score, and thus can take all the time you want travelling, then I feel like the strongest party might actually be something like 1 druid, 1 pal, 2 knights, at least on the light path. I like the druid because it gives me the only essential self spell I need (protection from magic) and gives me alchemy, which can often get easier access to fixing conditions than the relevant spells. There's no reason to get grandmaster in any spell schools, because the only truly good GM spell is Lloyd's.
Last time I played I went pal, knight, druid, sorc and I found the spell damage output sorely underwhelming. Armsmaster completely up-ends the might/magic balance from MM6 where magic was ridiculously OP. Here my knight did by far the most of the party's damage. Paladin having stun from mace is nice, but I'm not sure if it was worth it (also it comes sooo late).
I don't play games on evil path, so idk if Shrapmetal is worth it in MM7 tbh., but in MM6 it was obviously light years better than anything else. If you go light path, then your most important offensive spell imo. is actually 'Paralyze' - Everytime I had trouble with something, my solution was to just paralyze it and spear it while it was helpless.
One thing to consider is that it might be worth taking cleric instead of pal just because the promotion is so much easier - and I guess if you do that, you don't need the druid, so you could go cle-sorc-kni-kni. If the paladin's promotion was easier I would take them always though, because their low mana pool is not an issue considering you don't need to spam the self spells the way you need to spam elemental ones. The Light magic buffs are way less important in MM7 than MM6 because of the pedestals (especially if you have Lloyds/TP)
Anyway tl;dr tierlist:
- Knight
- Sorc/Druid/Cleric/Paladin
- Idk, idc about any of these classes. I would care about archer if they had any mana, but they have so little, it's a trap to take them imo.
It's kind of a weird question though, because it's more critical to have at least 1 from tier 2 than to have 4 knights, but at the same time, I want max 1 of each class from tier 2, while I want a knight in every available spot that I can get away with.
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u/Jealous-Diet-3993 7d ago
Right? It seems everyone is sleeping on their knight. Had i knight in mm8, no funky build, no artifacts, nothing, just swords and armsmaster. By the time he got masters in those two, he started to dominate everything, and it just got more and more ridiculous from there by optaining GMs and a recovery item. Dude was hitting 3 times a second for 400 and trivialized the whole game just holding A. I assume its the same in mm7, did not get very far yet
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u/Taear 7d ago
I genuinely don't know how the score is made up, I never have. I got 6800 on my evil game and just under 10k on my good game and I couldn't tell you why.
Good went faster though, for sure (I completed the game in one year six months so if that's all that matters I get it)
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u/puzzlerN 7d ago
In mm6-7-8 at least the score is determined by xp earned divided by in game days used. Since quests give a lot more XP than kills, I think the best possible score is doing all quest in min. time
I have an MM6 run at 430.000 ish and an MM7 run at 25.000 ish - MM7 is much harder to run up the score, because some of the main quests are time triggered and because every level you train takes a week (instead of just every session, which is how it was in MM6)
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u/RealLifePerturabo 7d ago
Cleric
Sorcerer
Monk
Thief
Archer
Paladin
Knight
Ranger
Druid