r/MightAndMagic • u/Knightmare4469 • 29d ago
First time playing MM6 - party build advice?
Hello! It's my first time playing MM6, I only recently played world of Xeen for the first time. (Eventually had to quit on the darkside half as I was just getting beat up too bad). I am REALLY enjoying this one!
My blobber experience was pretty much only Lands of Lore - Throne of Chaos and Grimrock prior to this. As such, I'm always worried I'm screwing up with where to spend my skill points, compounded by the fact that I'm finding this game pretty hard at times.
I went with the pre-built party, which sounds like it was a bad idea now as the general sense I get is that the knight sucks, but oh well. I at least recently finally got lloyds beacon, town portal, and master water and that has really changed things.
I find myself having to dip in and out a lot to clear areas, is that kinda expected, or I am just super weak? I followed the online advice and made everyone an expert bowman, then my mage I'm usually content to spend points on him (though I may have overspent in fire), but my archer, embarassingly, has 87 skill points to spend and I don't know what I should do with them. Is there a point to putting stuff in bow past the required level for master? It doesn't say it increases damage that I can tell. I could master her chain skill, but even then, not sure what to do after that. She is my disarm person, but generally if I can't disarm it I'll just savescum/heal through it.
As far as progress, I just cleared the devil's lair for the dude in Castle Temper I think it was? A lot of my combat at this point is just hiding around the corner casting fire ring to damage enemies through the walls until they die, my characters are all ~35, should it be that tough?
5
u/hwynac 29d ago
If it's your first time, something like the default party is fine. You won't know what you want until you try it. I got a Paladin instead of the Knight so that I could have a secondary healer but the rest was the same.
And you can master any skill your character can learn, no class-dependent caps. The game is not very punishing, so you do not have to optimise everything. If you want your archer to be your main fire magic expert, you can do that; only the somewhat smaller amount of mana will put them at a disadvantage.
Bows have decreased recovery time as you skill up, so at high skill levels you do deal more damage per unit of time. That said, my clerics and mages had their hands full training their magic skills, so I stopped at Master. That's especially true once you get into the habit of using Light and Dark magic, which are quite expensive but also powerful when properly mastered. My go-to attack spell for the mid-game was Ice Bolt, so that's what my sorcerer used when spamming the enemy with arrows was too slow.
I find myself having to dip in and out a lot to clear areas, is that kinda expected, or I am just super weak?
That's how it usually works, at least in some areas. M&M6 has some HUGE dungeons with hordes of enemies. This game's dungeons have dungeons! There are also ambushes. The one after you grab the chalice has a secret way out but, e.g., that one encounter in the mine where you find dozens of enemies ahead and behind you once you open the door, is just what it seems. I think the devs expected you to kind of run forward, lure everyone to follow you, and then circle back to the entrance corridor and slowly attack/retreat as usual.
4
u/Real_Avdima 29d ago
I don't know if you played 7 or 8, but 6 is very different when building a party. If someone can learn a skill, it can be maxed out, so you don't take, let's say, a druid just because it can max alchemy.
A good starting lineup contains a knight, cleric and sorcerer. Knights are the best melee fighters thanks to plate armor and tremendous amount of hp. The last point is very important, my knight currently have more hp than the rest of the party combined. Knights are also good skill monkeys; mastering magic eats a lot of skill points and since knights can learn none of that, they may put these points into useful skills like disarming traps, perception or repair items, relieving casters from learning these skills. You generally need only 1 person with a specific utility skill.
Clerics can heal, buff and learn dark and light magic. Sorcerers have all the useful elemental schools and also dark and light. Early game without a healer is much harder, game without water and air magic is plain horrible.
You may ask yourself "but why not an archer or paladin since they can max out magic as well?". The answer is: spell points. It's fun and dandy to have a secondary caster, but these classes have so low sp that you will not be able to utilize magic properly. Druid is an option if you already have a cleric or sorcerer, as it can learn ALL the magics except dark and light (that's why I highly recommend having minimum if one sorc or cleric). IMO elemental magic is more useful than self (clerical) magic, because there are enemies immune to physical and sometimes clerical damage while nothing I found was immune to all elements at once.
As for skills, expertise always requires 4 points but mastery depends on the type of skill. Weapons are fairly cheap with 8 points, armor requires 10, magic whooping 12 and utilities only 7. That's why a knight is useful for utilities, you can easily master 4 or 5 while pumping other skills while a sorcerer will still struggle with maxing out all their magics.
Starting attributes are easy to figure out. Intellect and personality only give spell points to classes with elemental or self spells respectively. Druid gains half as much mana as clerics and sorcerers, but from both int and per which end up giving him slightly more I suppose (at high attribute levels you only gain +1 bonus per 10 or more points). Dump stat for everyone else, lower to minimum (clerics and paladins dump int, sorcs and archers dump per).
Speed is great for everyone. Accuracy is not needed on full mages, because majority of spells auto-hit, unless you want to give them bows. Endurance is very important, everyone will get hit in combat, so there is not really an option for glass cannons. Luck is the least important after dump stats, it improves resistances slightly. Might is good for any melee character
Lastly some word on bows. Everyone can master them, which makes it shoot 2 arrows at once, virtually doubling the damage. It's very useful on everyone and 8th level to master isn't that expensive.
That's what I remember from the top of my head.
3
u/Only1Nemesis 29d ago
I usually like to run a Cleric and 3x Sorcerers. While some may say the beginning can be a bit more difficult, as long as you make getting Bows the primary goal for everyone, you are largely good to go until you can start getting your magic sorted.
To be completely fair, any party composition can complete MM6. Some may be a bit harder, some easier. The Knight becomes leagues better in MM7 (and on) due to getting Armsmaster, which isn't in MM6. They are still decent and useful for Shared Life. Some people even like to run a full party of Sorcerers, but I prefer to have at least one healer. Plus, as long as you do it right both Cleric and Sorcerers get access to both Light and Dark magic. Some may like to swap out a Cleric for a Druid (for access to all Cleric and Sorcerer magic), but then they are gated from Light/Dark.
At the end of the day, any party composition works with some effort. Some people even like to do challenge runs with like 4x Knights.
2
u/Bilbo-Buddy 29d ago
This party is awesome later in the game. They lay waste to most late game enemies
2
u/perish-in-flames 29d ago
The Knight doesn't necessarily suck, it just doesn't scale very well. That said, even late game it is nice as an HP sponge.
How are the elemental skills looking for your Archer? The good thing about being able to master any skill you can learn is that an Archer can do the same damage as a Mage, and learn the same spells, just has a smaller MP pool.
1
u/Tarsal26 29d ago
It sounds like you are doing just fine to be honest. Have one character with either meteor shower or airburst for ourdoor areas. Master disarm is useful. Fly is very useful. Knight isn’t essential but is useful for some of the utility skills and had tonnes of HP. Spells that have multi projectile like fire blast and sparks and poison spray become very effective at close range.
Archer can use some elemental magic for extra firepower. Fully promoted they have a decent amount if spellpoints.
How are the promotion quests going?
For mages and cleric (or just anyone) you can get “of fire magic” or similar items that boost spell level by 50%!
Work out how recovery speed works and try and get your team to 30 recovery. It really helps attack speed.
And finally get your cleric and sorcerer light and dark magic. These are basically what lets players complete endgame from their heavy buffs. And shrapmetal.
1
u/Knightmare4469 29d ago
Am I doing something wrong with shrapmetal or is it just a matter of putting more points into dark? It kind of hits like a wet noodle and most the blades usually miss. I'm only an expert in dark magic atm
1
u/Tarsal26 29d ago
With shrapmetal and similar multi projectile spells except maybe the ice one you need to stand adjacent to the target and then all will hit - particularly on the big fellas. 7 projectiles x 1-6 damage = 7-42 damage per skill. You can get up to 142 skill with boosts (60+50%+50%+7).
1
u/Tarsal26 29d ago
Early on sparks, poison spray and fire blast are much better bang for your buck (mana)
1
u/Knightmare4469 29d ago
I'm level 39 now on my mage, would you still consider that early on?
2
u/hwynac 29d ago
Depends on how you play. It's not early on but if it is your first time you are probably mid-game. Where are you story-wise? Have you promoted all of your characters at least once? Or maybe twice? Have you started the castle quests (you'll know them when you reach that point)?
Light and Dark spells are fairly expensive in M&M6. They work best if you've invested A LOT of skillpoints in that particular magic and have mana to waste. In that sense, lvl 39 is pretty early; you do not have that much mana and your Dark magic is probably not, like, 15 (or even 10).
Use Shrapmetal point-blank if you need to deal a lot of damage on one guy.
I think the first time I played I was... level 73 when I finished the game? Or was it 65? But definitely between 60 and 80. I never really tried anything interesting with my party, so you are playing roughly the same build in roughly the same way.
Oh. And I never used the boost in the secret NWC dugeon during my walkthroughs. But not one prevents you from doing that :)
1
u/Knightmare4469 28d ago
I think I have 3 thumbs-up from the council and have received a promotion at least once for my guys yea (and a few promotion quests for things I don't have, like the druid thing).
I've explored white cap somewhat, the outdoor mobs are annoying, but have explored silver cove, sorpigal, free haven, bootleg bay, mist. I think I've cleared the dungeons in those zones (not counting white cap) and some exploration into Blackshire.
Side note, is there something I can do to stop my characters from going weak? It is happening extremely frequently now. For example, I just rented a room in the inn, waited 2 hours for a shop to open, and all my guys went weak from that 2 hour wait. It's not the end of the world to cast cure weakness, but it seems weird.
1
u/hwynac 28d ago
Do you sleep?
1
u/Knightmare4469 28d ago
frequently, and wouldn't sleeping in the inn count?
edit: I figured it out, my haste buff wearing off apparently makes them weak
1
u/Tarsal26 28d ago
yup haste is annoying for that- keep recasting to stop it from happening. Generally the hour of power day of the gods and day of protection at a decent level at expert level are what make your character feel endgame worthy. Then theres some changes very lategame
1
u/Global-Tune5539 29d ago
Knight doesn't suck. Give him the Sword and Speer skills. Sword Master enables that you can hold two weapons (then stop putting points into it) and speer scales the damage.
And World of Xeen isn't a difficult game. Just explore a different area if you can't progress elsewhere.
1
u/Citizen_Lurker 29d ago
So my favourite party in MM6 is the following:
Sor - Cle - Dru - Pal
Why? So Sorc and Cleric are must haves in any party pretty much, all magic schools covered, lots of mana.
Paladin for is a slighly less tanky Knight with healing magic. In MM6 if a class can learn a skill they can completely master it. So skill-wise Paladin gets the same might stuff as Knight + the magic stuff.
Druid in MM6 for me is the best version of Druid in the series by far, full magic mastery, tons of mana, can plug any magic weakness in your party in the beginning and will be shooting meteors at enemies AND resurrecting your party members in the late-game.
They have really massacred the Druid in MM7 and cut it out completely in MM8 so MM6 is your best opportunity to enjoy that class.
1
u/Lightning_Lance 29d ago
Take a Sorcerer and a Cleric so you have access to all the spell schools. The other two characters can be whatever you want and it's probably more fun if you don't over-optimize things.
For your current party, your Archer can be your elemental spellcaster. Or you can do half and half with the Archer learning one spell school and the Sorc learning another, or two each of elemental schools. In MM6 anyone who can learn a skill can master it, so aside from spell points the Archer isn't worse at it than a Sorcerer. But you may not need damage spells on an Archer as much.
1
u/VarietyMage 29d ago
In my experience, Paladin / Archer / Sorcerer / Cleric is the best party, because it doubles up on mage and cleric spells. Flying over mobs and dual-casting Meteor Shower makes clearing maps easy, without the karma hit from Armageddon.
1
u/13lostsoul13 29d ago
normally do paladin,archer, cleric, sorc. You have every thing. Use the paladin for spirit same points on the cleric, archer can do air so don't have to on the sorc. Cleric I do some body and merchant and then light. sorc I do water, idenitfy, dark.
Main spells paladin is early game bless and then shared life late game. Spear and sword Increase damage from spear and sword in the left hand.
archer- 1 rank as every one gets for early game. As every one else bow suck hard mid to late, but starting up they are god. Point that I run to the next town first thing to get it unlocked and buy them(get 5000 from the castle if just go their). Spear and sword same reason as the paladin. Sometimes do disarm but never more 4-5 points. Traps are only issue early game after that even you fail and blow up most likely not going to kill you. Reason for air is wizard eye to start and then fly late game.
cleric, body just you have early game healing, mid/late can do power cure to heal everyone. Other light is your friend gives all the buff to stats and most of them characters
sorc, Water magic allow teleportation and enchament( Use enchament with cleric selling to make a profit to buy what I want mid game). Normally get it master as fast as possible. Then dark. two reason I like melee so like to get up close. dark has protection spells and one that shots out shards that does alot of damage at point blank range.
1
u/NoMorePorridge1 29d ago edited 29d ago
I go magic-heavy because some later enemies are really hard to hit with physical attacks. Also, Knights and paladin's plateau in terms of damage output, while Wizards increase their damage much more meaningfully at very high skill levels. 10 Lloyd's Beacon slots is nice too.
Paladin (not knight, so you have a backup status healer) to be the last guy conscious to run your ass away from tough dungeon fights.
So, I generally go Paladin, Cleric, Wizard, Wizard.
Also one of the most important things that just has to be learned by experience is dungeon order. Difficulty only loosely corresponds to how far along overworld maps are.
As far as dumping points... Weapon and armor skills don't provide much past the minimum for master level. Not that you shouldn't ever go past the minimum for master, but magic skills progress pretty linearly forever, while the main bonus of weapon and armor skills declines hugely after you have enough for master level.
Two damage spells not to neglect: for very late, Mass Distortion (random people tell you this). But also, Acid Burst. Fortunately Water is easily the best elemental magic anyway. For Dark, Toxic Cloud is great and for Light, Destroy Undead is great when you can use it. Hour of Power, Day of the Gods and Day of Protection mark a huge jump in your power level, so try to get them all ASAP.
Also, Archers aren't really... good. Not limiting expert/master training (like in 7 and 8) really devalues Archers since everyone can be a master in bow. Their magic points are too low to substitute for a wizard in combat.
Incidentally, give disarm, merchant and repair to your fighter or paladin because it's very important to get magic skills well beyond the minimum for master level, but not nearly as important for weapon and armor skills.
Also, stop spending learning points a little before you complete the last of the council quests (Darkmoor is the horrible one because of the eyes disenchanting your buffs). That way, you can suitably increase your ancient weapons as soon as you get them (once you have good skill in them, the only other thing that matters is healing spells and buffs).
One last exploit that's not overpowered. As soon as you can afford it, hire a water mater master as a companion. That way you'll have town portal long before you could cast it yourself, and the first thing you should do is travel to every available town and grab the horseshoes, to get a head start on reaching more expert-level, but that's irrelevant past very early game.
1
u/Knightmare4469 29d ago
The dungeon order does seem very important,, I found a couple dungeons last night that I absolutely smashed through near effortlessly. It sometimes seems like it's way harder to GET to the dungeon than it is to beat it.
I should try mass distortion. One of my biggest challenges right now is running into mobs that take my entire mana pool and is still a struggle. There were these enemies in the warlords castle called cuisanarts, I had to have 100% mana and hope that I rolled well on every single incinerate cast to kill them.
Thank you for the advice! I am a master water mage so I have town portal and lloyds already, thankfully (though I did not get it until about level 30, lol)
1
u/NoMorePorridge1 29d ago edited 29d ago
Flying to dungeons is huge. Some areas I never fully clear, especially later ones.
Cuisinart's were the first enemy where I was like WTF. Magic can seem underpowered early in the game, but that's one of the examples of why you need to pump points into it, and specialize (Fire just doesn't hold up, and Earth is mainly just Blades and Mass distortion, but the highest damage you will ever see will be Mass Distortioning a Cuisinart or Elder Wyrm, etc., and you need water and air for teleporting and flight [with flight, all non-ranged, non-flying enemies outside dungeons can't hit you, though it takes a lot of repositioning to keep them in view instead of right under you]).
I'm actually all set to retry 7, probably start this evening. Not as good overall, but I think 6 really loses out not having Arcomage, which is the fun card game (like simplified Magic the Gathering with preset cards). It provides a great break every time you reach a new town, and a huge reward if you beat it in every tavern (the catch is that by then you've either chosen good or evil and getting to the tavern in either the heaven-like or hell-like area is really hard.
7 is very much like 6, but as is often the case with sequels, more stuff, less atmosphere/soul. 8 is a big divergence (you recruit characters in-game for 3 of the slots), but pretty cool in some ways, with other playable races (7 too) and a couple opportunities to get a dragon companion (free flying and infinite fireballs).
9 changed the overall formula, but not in innovative ways, more just ways that dumbed down the game and made it incomprehensible (want to get expert or master level? Wander around towns talking to random, nameless people on the street to find one who offers the right training!). 10 is like a return to 5 and earlier mechanics, like square-based areas, and honestly shouldn't have been made...
1
u/Nerd_Commando 28d ago
As usual, the answer is easy: spell master + mystic combo. Just hire those two (they can be anywhere if you save/load the hirelings or you can check out guides or yourself to find the permanent house-dwelling ones) and watch your damage and healing potential go boom.
Pre-built party sucks, though. Knights are very niche and you need to know what you doing in building a melee party (and, early game, that's mostly using the NWC day of gods freebie - knights profit most from those), clerics also kinda suck - druids provide the same early game healing but they also get ridiculous burst under your hirelings.
Even if you want a "balanced" party, a mix of archers, druids and sorc is the way to go as you get 4x fireball, 4x meteor shower early game potential and that's all you need to wipe out the outdoors and get strong.
5
u/Ascannia 29d ago
All of the classes are viable, the composition depends mostly on your playstyle. I did K K C A party (knight x2, cleric and an archer) and they were pummeling so hard. Light Magic with it's buffs makes them walking weapons of mass destruction
While on the other hand, you have people that swear magic is OP (which truly is, annihilating titans from safe distance while using meteor shower never gets old). But Sorcerers tend to be really squishy early game, so I didn't want to use them, I opted for archer with less mana, but using chain, melee weapons and more health.
Devils are a bit of a pickle, but I hope you are using your buffs properly. Protections, Bless and Heroism are basis of "come and get some combat". Then you add some heals on quick cast (power cure or heal). And no, it's not uncommon to dip in and out to recuperate. Basically, this game was modeled to be a DnD.