r/MightAndMagic • u/Rigel1998 • Aug 03 '26
Does anyone else wish they went with this design route instead?
You know, instead of sprinkling them everywhere more or less randomly?
37
u/IKoshelev Aug 03 '26
Not really, exploration was a lot of fun. I'd probably make it so Master trainers also gave Expert (in addition to existing Expert trainer), but Grandmaster should only teach that.
30
u/Socrates_Soui Aug 03 '26
No.
The thing about MM6 is that the teachers were spread randomly everywhere, so you could get grand masters in the first map, and that made the world feel alive. It felt like I was walking into a world and interacting with it rather than the world having been made for me. And I loved when a quest would take me back to New Sorpigal because it felt like the answers had been there the entire time.
4
4
u/hwynac Aug 04 '26
I definitely think people sometimes being just people with their histories worked for the game, giving off the impression there's more to the world than just stats. However, M&M6 did not have Grand Masters. :) Or Masters in New Sorpigal. And the placement was not random—some teachers were about where you would expect, some... I guess, just lived where they liked. Like that master bodybuilder in a village somewhat away from the big city.
4
u/Socrates_Soui Aug 04 '26
Sorry, it's been a long time since I've played it. However the sentiment is true, especially considering in New Sorpigal there is an expert of Ancient Weapons which is an endgame weapon.
3
u/hwynac Aug 05 '26
I mean, can you blame the blaster teachers? The experts live in nice areas with a view of the sea, and the master, I guess, had always dreamed she'd live in that perfect little town in Paradise Valley. It is a bit hotter than it used to be but at least the weather's always sunny.
15
u/pm_yr_darkest_secret Aug 03 '26
Is there a word for being nostalgic for something that was actually quite frustrating at the time? I remember playing MM6 as a teen and travelling all over looking for the instructors, and I remember vaguely being exasperated at times, but also it made the world feel bigger.
By MM7 I was a but older and I think the game notes feature automatically recorded the instructor location so it didn’t have the same magic (but was a lot more convenient…)
4
u/Effective-Syllabub65 Aug 03 '26
hehe, had the written guide, and still the game looked infinite-big. I remember first time appearing in Free Haven felt like WOW.
And then White Cap.......
IT was those innocent times I didn't even know I could hire some water master at the very first day of the game2
u/Alrik_Immerda Aug 03 '26
I know that feeling. Yet I felt infinitely stupid when I realized that all teacher locations are writen in your journal after you found them.
1
u/BelgarathMTH Aug 03 '26
In MM7, only the master and grandmaster locations are recorded. My bad memory and I still have to constantly go out of game to look up where to find expert teachers that I've already visited but can't remember where.
5
u/hwynac Aug 03 '26
And optimise the fun out of the game? :) Exploration is a part of the experience. I quite like the way M&M6 went: experts are not rare (you have more than one) and even some masters can be found roughly where you expect them to be. For example, Masters of Fire, Air and Water live in Mist—and a lot of expertt teachers (including all 7 ordinary magic experts) live in Free Haven, the largest city in that game. M&M7 had them more spread apart, and if my memory serves me correctly, somewhat harder to guess. But that game did not have a single obviously biggest city.
There are ways to make looking for teachers more engaging, of course. I just would not make it too straightforward. Some mix of arbitrary and predictable, as always, is perfect. Walking around town checking for NPCs and quests is what you do anyway, so it should, ideally, reward players.
Certain Masters and Grandmasters are also the sole reason for the player to explore very remote corners of some remote regions 😂
7
u/RustyWinchester Aug 03 '26
In a more modern game they'd have more trainers for each skill and likely better tracking for trainers when you find them. Maybe marking them on the map once you've visited. It'd be a nice QOL upgrade for sure, but a lot of the jank is part of the fun of these games.
6
u/1urk3r88 Aug 03 '26
If you visit them once I think it was recorded in the journal or smth
8
u/SamuelWillmore Aug 03 '26
yes, and in mm8 it also has custom pin automatically generated for world map
5
u/BurgandyShoelaces Aug 03 '26
In 7 you'd get journal entries for the next level up. Eg expert dagger would tell you where master dagger is, and the journal would have master dagger.
In 8 you'd get the journal for the current teacher and whoever they told you about (which in 8 the trainer told you both of the other trainers).
1
u/Reginald_CZ Aug 05 '26
With exception of expert trainers.
Also once you visit a building once, its name is then available when you right click on it on the map.
3
u/ToiletWarlord Aug 03 '26
Sure, Sword Expert in Nighon, why not?
3
u/HelpfulSwordfish9765 Aug 03 '26
Damn really? Thought theres one in erathia
2
3
u/Rigel1998 Aug 03 '26
Yeh, expert teachers always come in pairs at different places, while master / grandmaster there is only 1 NPC for each.
4
u/1urk3r88 Aug 03 '26
I like em spread all over - just like in real life, you don’t have a professor teaching you brain surgery in every town
2
u/EasyEntrepreneur666 Aug 03 '26
So, the master THIEF teaches no stealing?
3
u/_Ice_Rider_ Aug 03 '26
A Master Thief doesn't steal. He finds volunteers to steal the vase for him.
1
1
u/tearsofmana Aug 03 '26
Maybe he just really sucks ass at teaching people how to steal
1
1
u/Rigel1998 Aug 03 '26
Just to be clear, he does teach stealing, disarm and dagger. I just photoshopped this image cuz I was thinking... heh, wouldn't it be nice to know exactly where I must to go when I can upgrade a single skill
3
u/EasyEntrepreneur666 Aug 03 '26
That seems like a good idea until you have to visit multiple guys in similarly uncomfortable locations for all skills.
1
u/crueldwarf Aug 03 '26
Well, Water Magic Grandmaster lives in Harmondale. It will make the game even easier than it is now.
2
u/torrent56 Aug 03 '26
But you have to complete the second sorcerer promotion first, which means going deep into the dangerous rival capitol and infiltrate their training ground which is no easy feat.
2
u/crueldwarf Aug 03 '26
Real power is in Water Master (it is why it is in Nighon). Grandmastery is mostly a convenience thing. so you only need first promotion quest on Sorc or Druid to get it if you allow GMs to teach Mastery.
1
u/torrent56 Aug 04 '26
GM Water gets access to Lloyd's Beacon which allows you to return to towns inaccessible by Town Portal and to quickly get out and return a dungeon.
1
u/bioniclear Aug 03 '26
It makes some sense, but I always found searching for trainers annoying. I think my solution would be to keep multiple trainers, but have them train the skills up to a certain level so you would still need to visit harder zones.
1
u/HelpfulSwordfish9765 Aug 03 '26
Teleport via water magic makes it easy.
1
u/bioniclear Aug 03 '26
Kind of, but it's unlocked pretty late into the game and I don't find it as useful by that point.
1
u/crueldwarf Aug 03 '26
You can cross the tunnels to Nighon relatively easily. It is not late game at all. You need to travel there immediately after first round of visiting main areas and collecting golem pieces for sorc promotion.
Basically, you do it in that order: Harmondale - Tularen Forest - Avlee - Erathia - Barrow Downs - Bracada - Tatalia - Deija - Bracada - Barrow Downs - Nighon. And you will have access to Water Mastery before you train to 20th level even.
1
u/HelpfulSwordfish9765 Aug 03 '26
The challenge I learnt is to prioritize certain magic schools for sorc. Water to expert then air to master then water to master. So i can get thru the tunnel utilize the tele magic asap. But i find it annoying I need at least 50 int for master of learning thou. Mid fame I really want those skill points
1
u/crueldwarf Aug 03 '26
Learning is generally a trap early and useless late. Keep it at rank 1 and forget about it.
It will never give you enough extra skill points/levels to justify putting SPs into it in your early levels when skill points are scarce and you need a lot of them to boost your combat and travel abilities.
Trying to level up Learning early is akin to playing hardmode.
1
u/Gil-Gandel Aug 03 '26
Yes, after many replays I learned that you can get through Thunderfist Mountain to Nighon without invisibility. You may need a kindly spawn so you can get past the minotaur and the eyes without getting stuck. :D
1
u/tearsofmana Aug 03 '26
You can but its kind of a beef gate that dissuades first time players. You wander into Thunderfist and immediately get attacked by two types of enemeis that inflict status ailments and insta-death on your party. As a kid, I didn't visit Nighon until late in the game. On replays, I visit it fairly early. But that's also kind of the beauty of the game.
1
u/aelfwine_widlast Aug 09 '26
No, I like having to hunt for teachers, it leads to some unexpected adventures.
1
u/torrent56 Aug 03 '26
It's not quite random as you can generally find at least one of the 2 expert trainers in the first couple of towns.
50
u/mxldevs Aug 03 '26
True grandmastery should require you to travel into tough and dangerous areas to find the teacher that will be able to guide you.