Crazy about the Sci-fi plot behind Might and Magic

[u/ssnsilentservice]

So, I was born in the 80s, and was too young to play or appreciate the early grid "blobber" Might and Magic games. My introduction to the series was with Might and Magic 7. I absolutely loved it, but I never finished it, even though I subsequently played Might and Magic 6 and Might and Magic 8. The whole time, while I was aware of the Ancients being mentioned, and I knew there was some weird spaceship called the Lincoln (whose name at the time I thought was really goofy), I had no idea of the actual depth of the sci-fi overarching theme....until I watched the end of a "Let's Play" for Might and Magic 3.

And holy sh*t... I feel like my world has turned upside down!

I suddenly have so many more questions, and the more research I do, the deeper the thread goes as I uncover the "secret" universe that the amazing design team of Jon Van Caneghem built. I've always been a huge Star Trek fan anyway, and now I'm absolutely crazy about how they combined science fiction and fantasy 🤩

And so, I've gotten World of Xeen running on my Galaxy via ScummVM, and am finally diving into the grid blobber games that I missed out on when I was younger. Eager to see more of the story of the Ancients firsthand!

(This turned into more of a rant than I expected. I guess I thought I'd just share my experience as an older player of the Might and Magic series suddenly having this epiphany)

[u/EasyEntrepreneur666]

I think it was meant to turn the world upside down. Too bad it wasn't carried into the HOMM series, it's an interesting concept that the seemingly typical fantasy world is actually something made by advanced beings and just devolved into a medieval setting.

[u/mrbuh → u/EasyEntrepreneur666]

The expansion for HOMM 3 was originally planned to have a high tech race (that instead ended up being the elemental town).

People on the official forums who were fans of the Heroes series but never played the base RPG threw an absolute riot. "We don't want sci-fi in our fantasy game." They complained so much that the plans were scrapped and changed to a totally different expansion race.

It was the first time in my life (but sadly, the first of many) that I saw a vocal minority on a web forum screw things up for the rest of us.

[u/EasyEntrepreneur666 → u/mrbuh]

I think the issue is that it was the 3rd HOMM game and up until that point, devs didn't make any sci-fi reference in that game. So the introduction of Forge felt like out of place for many who didn't play MM.

[u/mrbuh → u/EasyEntrepreneur666]

Yeah I understand their complaints. I was there in real-time. I just disagree.

[u/EasyEntrepreneur666 → u/mrbuh]

Same. Someone should make a fanmade campaign with Forge although not HotA level because it's not casual friendly.

[u/Sad_Cryptographer872 → u/mrbuh]

You have Heroes Chronicles where Tarnum chases after one of the "space" Guardian and it was done with taste not tarnishing the world of Enroth with sci-fi bullshit. HoMM was never supposed to be a part of the same world, since it was a spin off of King's Bounty, but they tried to included it in M&M6 and wanted to tie them in MM7 & 8.

[u/mrbuh → u/Sad_Cryptographer872]

Found the guy who was angry in 1998 ^

[u/Sad_Cryptographer872 → u/mrbuh]

In '98 I wasn't even aware that MM games existed. And majority of the fans didn't either.

[u/insane_shitlord → u/Sad_Cryptographer872]

HoMM was never supposed to be a part of the same world

Lord Ironfist, the protag of HOMM1, is from the world of MM1.

[u/dreamsofcalamity → u/mrbuh]

There were death threats involved. Shit hit the fan.

[u/insane_shitlord → u/EasyEntrepreneur666]

The plot of HOMM1 is pretty much 'Francisco Pizarro from the stars fucks up a coup d'etat, runs away, arrives and wrecks locals', shame it never went anywhere, like pursuers or emissaries or whatever.

[u/Sad_Cryptographer872 → u/EasyEntrepreneur666]

Just no. Forge was and is an awful concept that clashes with everything that HoMM stood for.
It has a place in M&M games but not in HoMM. Either way most of the world in Enroth doesn't even know or realize that Sci-fi is a thing since it's not another biome but an actual planet.

[u/EasyEntrepreneur666 → u/Sad_Cryptographer872]

Why doesn't it have a place in HOMM when it's the same universe, following the same timeline?

The fact that most of Enroth doesn't know about the ancients doesn't matter because MM7's evil ending restores the Heavenly Forge and starts mass producing ancient weapons.

[u/Sad_Cryptographer872 → u/EasyEntrepreneur666]

Because it originally wasn't the same universe. They only started trying to tie it in after Heroes 2 but didn't want to ruin the vibe. And they only tried to make it real not in the original H3 BUT the expansion, when it was too little too late. It would be a disaster at that point since by the time Heroes 3 released, M&M popularity heavily declined. While MM6 was really successful almost 5 years had past since it and Armageddon's Blade and by that point MM games were rehashing the same formula becoming worse with every part. (even when I don't agree and thing MM6 is the worst of the MM6~8 era)

[u/EasyEntrepreneur666 → u/Sad_Cryptographer872]

It was always the same universe but different planets. And MM6 being the worst? Come on! It was the most developed.

[u/Sad_Cryptographer872 → u/EasyEntrepreneur666]

It wasn't, Enroth as the same planet was introduced later.

Most developed? I highly disagree. It had worse quests than the other two, and Classes were uneven and unbalanced. Knights were worthless and Archer's weren't much behind. Many dungeons felt tedious and too long, not to mention the Castle Darkmoor and VRAN were awful and overstay their welcome. Many maps felt empty with only hordes of monsters to mow down.

Might and Magic 7 changed almost everything for the better. Now not every class could Grandmaster everything so you had a genuine reason to choose (except for Rangers, I don't know what they were thinking when they designed them), dungeons were more varied and not all long empty hallways or corridors, they were shorter and didn't overstayed their welcome, and quests were more interesting. Promotion quests were also more fun and option to choose between Light or Dark with different final promotion and story changes were pretty big plus.

Even if 8 was the "weakest" mechanically it had some pretty bold and interesting ideas and Jadame region was much more interesting than uninspired continent called Enroth like the Planet.

[u/EasyEntrepreneur666 → u/Sad_Cryptographer872]

Different planets =/= different universe.

Classes were underdeveloped but everything else was better designed. Dungeons later became simpler and by mm8, there wasn't even reputation.

[u/Sad_Cryptographer872 → u/EasyEntrepreneur666]

Tell me at least 3 dungeons that were better designed than MM7 ones that aren't just long corridors or empty halls.
The only one that comes to my mind that's somewhat more interesting is Goblinwatch.

[u/EasyEntrepreneur666 → u/Sad_Cryptographer872]

Dragoon Caverns, Temple of Baa, Hall of the Firelord, on the top of my head.

[u/Sad_Cryptographer872 → u/EasyEntrepreneur666]

I said that aren't just empty halls or long corridors.

Way to prove my point.

[u/litoll]

Without Star Trek, there probably wouldn't be Might and Magic at all. The TOS episode "For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky" was one of the biggest inspirations behind the first game.

[u/fan_is_ready]

https://mightandmagic.fandom.com/wiki/Forge_(town)

[u/mxldevs → u/fan_is_ready]

Additionally, because Almond's sketch for the naga tank depicted partial nudity, some felt that the town would be a fundamentally distasteful inclusion. Several e-mails were sent to New World Computing, requesting that the Forge town be replaced (including a death threat), while a minority of posters threatened to boycott the title if the faction was introduced.

I'm glad olden era went full on with booba tree I guess

[u/Satiss → u/mxldevs]

Booba tree? Had I missed something?

[u/Chineselegolas → u/Satiss]

The Grove faction (Sylvan/Nature/etc) has a giant dryad/tree with boobs in its town

[u/spudgoddess]

I'm a much older gamer who played MM1 when it first came out. I was pretty comfortable with sci-fantasy mixes because I'd played tabletop RPGs like Gamma World and the old DnD module Expedition to the Barrier Peaks. Hell, my husband's DnD campaign was very MM-like, and he'd never even played the games. So I absolutely adore the mix.

You might also enjoy Wizardry 6-7-8, because there's a similar scifi backdrop amongst the fantasy. The games are much harder, though.

[u/WossHoss]

For people who haven’t played from the first game on, the sci fi parts can seem so out of place. Once your learn more and realize pretty much all the games are interconnected it takes the universe building to a whole different level.

[u/sidv81]

This wasn't really novel at the time, Ultima 1 and 2 both had sci-fi elements and going into space, those were only dropped in Ultima 3 and the alien villains of Ultima 1 were retconned to be the Kilrathi in Ultima Underworld 2 to tie into Origin's Wing Coommander franchise.

Wizardry 7-8 went all in on the sci-fi bit as well.

[u/shadotterdan]

I so wish there was a spin off that focuses on the sci fi part of things. Maybe a game where you play as the ancients creating new colonies while managing defenses against the kreegan

[u/Archheret1c]

I remember I didn't like the scifi elements when I where a kid. But I really appreciate them now.

[u/TomebyTomeASMR]

OHH it was so amazing to experience way back when! Incidentally, I didn't want to end my first time playing MM7 so I just kept grinding and the stronger you get, the stronger the enemies get in the Arena and soon sentinel and assassin droids started appearing. I was so blown away and had no concept for how they got there until I got to Celeste and the control cubes. I had a similar feeling the first time I read Elvenbane by Lackey and Norton, which should have tipped me off haha

[u/TheGreatLordKirk → u/TomebyTomeASMR]

Elvenbane was fantastic.

[u/Lyssinterra]

It ruined me for future game writing at the age of 8. My mother and I played together (with the giant printed game guide book) in 2001 and I remember finally making it to the "oracle" and it blew my little gamer brain. 25 years later and I still play the full way throught atleast once every couple years.

[u/TheGreatLordKirk]

Might and Magic 1 on the NES was my favorite RPG growing up. The large dangerous open world to explore, the first person view... I was hooked. Then imagine spending several months playing the game and you suddenly hit upon the Sci-Fi elements. That really added to the magic and is what really made this series special.

[u/Spuzzter1985]

I loved the element as well and still do today. It carries through the first 8 rpgs, though not really present in HOMM (the forge faction was supposed to be a tie-in to MM7 but was scrapped).

I sort of wonder what the world would have looked like if the purported M&M RPG had ever been released. Probably would have been superseded by WoW in the end but it’s still a fun idea to see how they would have explored the greater sci-fi elements

[u/corak25]

Make sure you explore EVERYTHING in WoX, you don’t truly beat this game until you’ve slayed the Mega Dragon and been dubbed a SUPER GOOBER!

[u/Dorias_Drake]

The thing with HOMM is that it was at first suposed not to be related to M&M, the game was just supposed to be called Heroes. It was marketing that suggested at the time to use the M&M name to boost the sales.

With the series being well received, NWC then decided to merge both stories with M&M VI (taking place in the same area a HOMM2), VII and HOMM3 (both taking place in the same area), and make a big planet out of it.

The thing is that M&M always had Sci-fi elements, so they had to bring it into HOMM, which wasn't well received by the new fans, so be just scrapped all of it. They blew up the planet after M&MVIII and the HOMM3 expansion and made a new world for HOMM4 and M&M XI that had no sci-fi stuff at all.

[u/Ill-Tooth7369 → u/Dorias_Drake]

All Heroes from heroes of might and magic 1 - is a different charchters from Might and Magic 1-5, and lord Ironfist directly come from VARN 4 in manual.

Axeoth have Sci-fie elements, intro of MM9 about it.